Contradictions of Catholic Beliefs and Protestants

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BernadetteM

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I have a good friend who belongs to a mega church. We don’t discuss our differences and only speak of our unified beliefs as Christians.

However, her husband passed away two years ago suddenly and since then she has related experiences of her son and friends regarding having visions and hearing from her husband and she believes that they actually did have visions.

She is against any apparatons of the BVM, but her son said that his dad appeared to him wearing a crown and garland and told him he was very proud of him.

She also has had two friends that had visions of her husband, one said he appeared in a chariot and told her he was watching over his wife and family. Another friend also had a vision of him.

How can these fundamentalists deny that the Virgin Mary has appeared to others and yet it makes perfect sense that her husband is allowed to appear and speak to her son and friends. She doesn’t believe that my daughter at age of 7 had a vision of the BVM, which was very vivid and detailed, so much so that it gave me chills. My daughter had ADHD and learning disabilities and really knew very little of Mary, however her description was very accurate and to this day she has a special relationship to Mary and defends her when someone makes snide remarks about the BVM.

If they don’t believe that those in Heaven can communicate with us, how can they honestly believe that a close family member can? If God is going to allow anyone to appear to the living on earth I would assume that His Blessed Mother would surely be the chosen one to give messages to bring us closer to her Son.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
I don’t know. I think that is part of the process. We often believe what we are taught, and even when we find a contradiction we hold to what we ‘know.’ I was perfectly willing to believe that my uncle came back to visit my aunt as a protestant, but would argue up and down that Mary couldn’t do so. It’s only when we open our minds to really look at what Catholics believe that we find there is so much truth there it can’t be denied.
 
Protestant theology will often at many people contradict itself. Im guessing if someone is exposed to many contradictions and taught to ignore them, then it becomes learnt. Perhaps due to this they fail to see the contradiction.

I imagine if it ever came up that visions of Mary were not real, you could relate it back to visions of her husband (in a sensitive manner of course) and ask her why that is possible, but to her Mary appearing to people isnt.
 
bmullins said:
I don’t know. I think that is part of the process. We often believe what we are taught, and even when we find a contradiction we hold to what we ‘know.’ I was perfectly willing to believe that my uncle came back to visit my aunt as a protestant, but would argue up and down that Mary couldn’t do so. It’s only when we open our minds to really look at what Catholics believe that we find there is so much truth there it can’t be denied.
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I know of a “hard cord fundamentalist” who has very Catholic beliefs, but he refuses to see or admit that, because IMO, he is afraid to. He is afraid because then he would have to admit that maybe the Catholic faith isn’t so bad, or so wrong, etc.

Does the word “bigot” fit here?🤷
 
BernadetteM said:
If they don’t believe that those in Heaven can communicate with us, how can they honestly believe that a close family member can? If God is going to allow anyone to appear to the living on earth I would assume that His Blessed Mother would surely be the chosen one to give messages to bring us closer to her Son.
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Close family members have “residue” with us that other saints do not; I lived with this person, I understood them more than anyone, I loved them (they loved me), I’m emotionally and biologically connected to them…I would not have seen the contradiction as a Protestant. The BVM had no “residue” with me, but my grandfather (or even my cat!) did. I would have assumed that, as someone who had been so closely connected with me, they were either allowed to appear, or my brain was specially “gifted” a vision that would have great meaning for me even if it did not literally happen. For me, the cause would have had to do with paranormal science. It would have had a natural, though very cool, origin. 🤷
 
The mind and the imagination is a wonder. Its s process to know where God interceeds and where your mind and imagination is simply at work creating dreams through useless information, or through trauma etc. Visions from God don’t fade, they never go away, you never forget them, and they can only draw you deeper to God.

Apparitions confirmed by Miracles from God are pretty hard to deny, such as Fatima. When you can explain to me through science how 70-000 were in a foot of mud and pouring rain for hours, and were instantly dried? I’ll start to listen to the disbelief.

My friend only God could perform such a severe and profound break in the Laws of Nature. The amount of energy needed to perform such a feat, would have burned everyone alive.

You can believe or not whatever you like. But if I say to you God will appear Saturday at Noon, and then his does on schedule? And then not only does He, but He confirms it with the spectacular Miracle such as the numerous which took place at Fatima?

Well, I’ll be waiting for some one to explain how that occured? And btw evil doesn’t convert souls to God, very much the opposite.

However, a fundemantal issue today is man would have you believe this physical reality is all that exists. Until by divine providence God interceeds in your life, you are left with your Faith. As Jesus Christ states in the Bible…“As you believe, so it will be”. And you could best believe in unison with His church that is how it will be.

How is that many would believe the Holy Spirit works through them by talking in tongues, yet would deny the Saints and Mystics of the Church in many regards had a very close personal relationship with God? In fact I believe the more you research this supernatural aspect, the more profound it becomes.

What I see is vanity and denial based on “zero” research and often disquised as knowledge and usually…“lacking”.

And yes learned bahavior is most difficult to overcome. Add to the equation most major universities are very secular today. Its a bit difficult to focus on the stated topic, in specific the supernatural. You are more likely to receive a wide spread view which only leads to the belief of the Professor doing the teaching. Leaving you to decide for yourself. So again it would come back to your ability to seek this knowledge in the correct context, or spend a very long time reading from Books or in the Library.

In other words if you want to learn about the Catholic Church? Go to those who teach specifically on this topic. If you want to hear what others outside the CC think? Then your left with in most case’s lacking information often projected with a bias attitude.

And its not a knock on other aspects of Christianity. If I want to hear about Lutherans I would talk to Lutherans. Same as with the EO or Anglicans. Why would I care what they had to say about that which they do not believe in anyway?

If I didn’t understand electrical theory, the mathmatics behind it, or have real world experience in it, would you come to me to learn about it? Of course not. Its no different with the mind or the Catholic Church, and especially with the two combined.
 
I’ve often wondered how some evanglicals can believe in the supernatural with:
Speaking in tongues
Faith healing
“Word of knowledge”
“Holy laughter”
“Slain in the spirit”
Barking in the spirit
Absolutely!

But the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist?
Apparitions of the Blessed Mother?
Impossible!!
 
Little_Mary said:
I know of a “hard cord fundamentalist” who has very Catholic beliefs, but he refuses to see or admit that, because IMO, he is afraid to. He is afraid because then he would have to admit that maybe the Catholic faith isn’t so bad, or so wrong, etc.

Does the word “bigot” fit here?🤷
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I am fortunate to belong to a place where protestants, orthodox and catholics alike venerate BVM and wholeheartedly partake in all the Marian feasts and also use the Rosary in their cars for protection against unforeseeable mishaps.
 
IMO…visions and “apparations” usually form around one’s religiouosly held beliefs…Catholics and Orthodox “see” Mary…Buddhists have visions of great Buddhist saints…I have a friend who has spoken to Quan Yin in vision/apparation.

While Catholics might hold to Mary appearing and “confirming” one’s Catholic faith…Protestant 'visions" usually happen with “Protestant” tones and textures…just as Catholic visions and apparations occur in “tones and textures” very Catholic.

Each religious experience is “filtered” through one’s accepted religious teachings.
 
BernadetteM said:
I have a good friend who belongs to a mega church. We don’t discuss our differences and only speak of our unified beliefs as Christians.

However, her husband passed away two years ago suddenly and since then she has related experiences of her son and friends regarding having visions and hearing from her husband and she believes that they actually did have visions.

She is against any apparatons of the BVM, but her son said that his dad appeared to him wearing a crown and garland and told him he was very proud of him.

She also has had two friends that had visions of her husband, one said he appeared in a chariot and told her he was watching over his wife and family. Another friend also had a vision of him.

How can these fundamentalists deny that the Virgin Mary has appeared to others and yet it makes perfect sense that her husband is allowed to appear and speak to her son and friends. She doesn’t believe that my daughter at age of 7 had a vision of the BVM, which was very vivid and detailed, so much so that it gave me chills. My daughter had ADHD and learning disabilities and really knew very little of Mary, however her description was very accurate and to this day she has a special relationship to Mary and defends her when someone makes snide remarks about the BVM.

If they don’t believe that those in Heaven can communicate with us, how can they honestly believe that a close family member can? If God is going to allow anyone to appear to the living on earth I would assume that His Blessed Mother would surely be the chosen one to give messages to bring us closer to her Son.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
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Another Mystery I suppose:D

All we can do is pray and with prayers hope and understanding will follow.
 
Publisher said:
IMO…visions and “apparations” usually form around one’s religiouosly held beliefs…Catholics and Orthodox “see” Mary…Buddhists have visions of great Buddhist saints…I have a friend who has spoken to Quan Yin in vision/apparation.

While Catholics might hold to Mary appearing and “confirming” one’s Catholic faith…Protestant 'visions" usually happen with “Protestant” tones and textures…just as Catholic visions and apparations occur in “tones and textures” very Catholic.

Each religious experience is “filtered” through one’s accepted religious teachings.
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Funny how those atheists at Fatima in 1917 saw the same sun miracle devout Catholics did.
:cool:
 
Publisher said:
Athiests well versed in Catholic lore and influence…yes…“funny” indeed.🙂
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Publisher, I’m guessing that since you placed “apparition” in quotes, that you tend to dismiss such phenomena. It’s an interesting position since many atheists also dismiss the resurrection of Jesus (and many other miracles) as “apparitions” formed by a particular religious belief.
 
As a Catholic I’m leary of anyone that claims to have been visited by a spirit…be it BVM or a family member. As Catholics we are NOT required to believe in ANY apparition of BVM…or anyone else for that matter.

However, your logic is sound…if a fundie can accept that a family member that is deceased has appeared to them in a vision then it stands to reason that BVM can also appear.

I do accept some apparitions as real…Lourdes, Fatima, perhaps a few others. However, even these apparitions largely accepted by Catholics worldwide as real are PRIVATE revelations and have no bearing on our faith or doctrines.
 
stewstew03 said:
Publisher, I’m guessing that since you placed “apparition” in quotes, that you tend to dismiss such phenomena. It’s an interesting position since many atheists also dismiss the resurrection of Jesus (and many other miracles) as “apparitions” formed by a particular religious belief.
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It is not that I dismiss them…I just do not find them “compelling” as “affirmations of faith” or “affirmations of Truth”. They are pious “faith stories”…

If such apparations confirm for you Truth…Im good…but such “miracles” to me have little value for me as bolsters of faith…they are an interesting phenomena.

As I understand it not even a Catholic is “required” to believe in such apparations…so you should not find it strange that someone not of your “persuasion” would find any of them very compelling…even Catholics do not have to believe in them…and with the blessings of your church should they choose not to.
 
Publisher said:
It is not that I dismiss them…I just do not find them “compelling” as “affirmations of faith” or “affirmations of Truth”. They are pious “faith stories”…

If such apparations confirm for you Truth…Im good…but such “miracles” to me have little value for me as bolsters of faith…they are an interesting phenomena.

As I understand it not even a Catholic is “required” to believe in such apparations…so you should not find it strange that someone not of your “persuasion” would find any of them very compelling…even Catholics do not have to believe in them…and with the blessings of your church should they choose not to.
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I didn’t say “strange” I said “interesting.” And I think it’s fine to be a skeptic, and I think it’s fine to suspend your belief in apparitions, but you suggested that atheists in Portugal were indoctrinated with Catholic “lore and influence,” which minimizes the Fatima experience. There is a difference between choosing not to believe, and being critical of those who do.
 
stewstew03 said:
I didn’t say “strange” I said “interesting.” And I think it’s fine to be a skeptic, and I think it’s fine to suspend your belief in apparitions, but you suggested that atheists in Portugal were indoctrinated with Catholic “lore and influence,” which minimizes the Fatima experience. There is a difference between choosing not to believe, and being critical of those who do.
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I was responding to the claim that the “atheists” present too saw the “miracle”…since I believe that we “filter” such experiences with the “folk lore”…“religious influences”…“culture” and form opinions about “who” has appeared to us…or “what” is occuring as phenomena I was not being “critical”…I have read the critique of the “miracle” and am satisfied…if an “atheist” now attributes the “phenomena” as the work of a deity they don’t believe in…not a very good “atheist” in my opinion…I was not being critical of those who beleive such things…they just are not my “cup of tea” to get excited about…there ARE natural explanations…but for those predispositioned by their religion or culture to beleive them to be “miracles”…if “miracle” makes sense to them or you…I’m good…but I’m not able to “pretend” I believe such “miracles” are “miracles”…I am not trying to be insensitive toward YOUR beliefs…but explain MINE in as gentle a way as I can.🤷
 
Publisher said:
I was responding to the claim that the “atheists” present too saw the “miracle”…since I believe that we “filter” such experiences with the “folk lore”…“religious influences”…“culture” and form opinions about “who” has appeared to us…or “what” is occuring as phenomena I was not being “critical”…I have read the critique of the “miracle” and am satisfied…if an “atheist” now attributes the “phenomena” as the work of a deity they don’t believe in…not a very good “atheist” in my opinion…I was not being critical of those who beleive such things…they just are not my “cup of tea” to get excited about…there ARE natural explanations…but for those predispositioned by their religion or culture to beleive them to be “miracles”…if “miracle” makes sense to them or you…I’m good…but I’m not able to “pretend” I believe such “miracles” are “miracles”…I am not trying to be insensitive toward YOUR beliefs…but explain MINE in as gentle a way as I can.🤷
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Okay, got it.
 
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