Contradictory Bible Canon?

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patricius79

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Hi,

I’m debating with someon on Theologyonline and they say that the Council of Trent rejected a book which the North African Councils and Rome had accepted.

He cites william webster and says that the Vulgate’s “3rd Esdas” was accepted by Carthage, etc, then rejected by Trent.

Anyone know abuo this?
 
The Esdras thing is confusing. William Webster sez:
“…The canon of the North African Councils differed from that decreed by the Council of Trent in the sixteenth century on one important. Hippo and Carthage stated that 1 Esdras and 2 Esdras were canonical, referring to the Septuagint version of 1 and 2 Esdras, the Bible their Latin version was based upon. In that version, 1 Esdras was the apocryphal additions to Ezra and Nehemiah which they combined into one book. This was 2 Esdras in the Septuagint version. It was Jerome (in his Latin Vulgate) who separated Ezra and Nehemiah into two books, calling them 1 Esdras and 2 Esdras respectively. This became standard for the Vulgate and the basis upon which Trent declared the Septuagint 1 Esdras to be noncanonical. 1 Esdras in the in the Septuagint then became 3 Esdras in the Vulgate… Augustine quoted from the book of III Esdras (I Esdras in the Septuagint) in his work The City of God. Thus, when the Council of Carthage gave its list of canonical books for the Old Testament it followed the Septuagint translation. In referring to Esdras as comprising two books they were referring to I and II Esdras of the Septuagint. And when Carthage sent these decrees to Rome for confirmation, it was these books which were confirmed as canonical. Innocent I affirmed this in his letter to Exuperius and they were later included in the decrees of Popes Gelasius and Hormisdas…This contradicts the decree passed by Trent which followed Jerome in assigning I and II Esdras to the canonical Hebrew books of Ezra and Nehemiah respectively. Therefore, Trent declared uncanonical what the Council of Carthage and the bishops of Rome, in the fourth, fifth, and sixth centuries, declared to be canonical.”
William Webster, The Old Testament Canon And The Apocrypha (Christian Resources, 2001), pp. 48-50.

If Webster were correct, it would mean that the Canon from the North African Councils included 1 Esdras which Trent did not accept. As Gary mentioned, Trent specifically discussed the status of 1 Esdras and decided to pass over the question of its canonicity.

But anyone who is familiar with the state of the Biblical Canon in the late 4th Century knows that the term “2 books of Esdras” had been used for over 100 years by Origen and others to refer to the books of Ezra and Nehemiah. And St. Jerome was well aware of the difference between 1Esdras and Ezra-Nehemiah in the 390s. In the Vulgate translation he made, St. Jerome used the title 1Esdras to refer to Ezra, 2Esdras to refer to Nehemiah, and 3Esdras to refer to the apocryphal 1Esdras from the Septuagint.

So while Webster has raised an interesting question about the Canon formed at the end of the 4th Century, the evidence shows that the North African Councils were most likely following the usage of the Vulgate and were referring to what we now call Ezra and Nehemiah. And as Gary has shown, even if the Councils did refer to Apocryphal 1Esdras in their canonical list, Trent did not contradict them since the Fathers there knowingly voted to pass over the book’s status in silence thus leaving the question of its canonicity technically open.
more at surprisedbytruth.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3089&#36693
 
Thanks MarcoPolo and Kepha. That’s very helpful. You’ll be in my prayers. --pat
 
I need to know also about Cardinal Cajetan, Jerome, and St. Gregory the Great.

Gregory was using “non-Canonical” in the Eastern sense, right?

ANd what about Jerome? Did he reject teh Damasine list?

And did Cardinal Cajetan regard the Deuteros as non-Canonical?

Again, my oppponent is relying on William Webster.

in Christ (I realize nobody might have time for this),

Pat
 
The book you want is the very same Gary Michuta’s Why Catholic Bibles Are Bigger. He covers everyone you ask about except Cardinal Cajetan. Off-hand, I don’t know what he taught. Michuta has a whole chapter on Jerome and a page or two on Gregory. He also has a treatment on the word “canonical” in the first chapter or two.
 
Marco,

Do you know of any online site that proves “the books of Esdras” was used to mean Ezra and Nehemiah in the 300s?

Thanks,
pat
 
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