Contrition and Justification

[expectthebest]

This started in another thread as an off topic discussion so I thought I’d take it and make a new post. I’ve tried to find the answer before but can’t quite find agreement. The question is if there is posibility of being forgiven of a mortal sin, whith imperfect contrition, if that person dies before he can get to Confession. Some say yes, some say no.

What’s the official teaching on this?

 

[theMutant]

This started in another thread as an off topic discussion so I thought I’d take it and make a new post. I’ve tried to find the answer before but can’t quite find agreement. The question is if there is posibility of being forgiven of a mortal sin, whith imperfect contrition, if that person dies before he can get to Confession. Some say yes, some say no.

What’s the official teaching on this?

I don’t know that there is an official teaching on this. There is no requirement for “perfect” contrition for the Sacrament of Penance, so it is certainly possible that, provided there was some level of true contrition, it could be forgiven. After all, you stipulated that the death occurred before the person could “get to confession.” I am interpreting that to mean that he intended to actually confess and receive absolution.

This is just my guess, however.

 

[expectthebest]

I don’t know that there is an official teaching on this. There is no requirement for “perfect” contrition for the Sacrament of Penance, so it is certainly possible that, provided there was some level of true contrition, it could be forgiven. After all, you stipulated that the death occurred before the person could “get to confession.” I am interpreting that to mean that he intended to actually confess and receive absolution.

This is just my guess, however.

Thanks. This is one of the explanations I have heard. But, I hope others will join in so we can all get to the bottom of this.

 

[Eucharisted]

In order to go directly to Heaven, perfection contrition suffices. If the soul has imperfect contrition, than it goes to Purgatory before Heaven. If the soul has an unrepentant mortal sin, it goes to Hell.

 

[thistle]

This started in another thread as an off topic discussion so I thought I’d take it and make a new post. I’ve tried to find the answer before but can’t quite find agreement. The question is if there is posibility of being forgiven of a mortal sin, whith imperfect contrition, if that person dies before he can get to Confession. Some say yes, some say no.

What’s the official teaching on this?

The answer is no.

The Church teaching:

CCC 1453 The contrition called “imperfect” (or “attrition”) is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin’s ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I’m not an official voice of the Church, but I would be of the opinion that the person would go to Purgatory because when a person has intent but not opportunity, God is known to fill in what’s missing on the part of the intent of the believer.

For example in baptism of blood or desire (CCC1258), the Church believes God will apply the sacrament’s effects in extraordinary means because the believer would have accepted baptism if given the chance. This does not contradict the Church’s teaching that baptism is necessary (CCC1257) because the fruits of baptism happened to be applied extraordinarily.

 

[thistle]

I’m not an official voice of the Church, but I would be of the opinion that the person would go to Purgatory because when a person has intent but not opportunity, God is known to fill in what’s missing on the part of the intent of the believer.

For example in baptism of blood or desire (CCC1258), the Church believes God will apply the sacrament’s effects in extraordinary means because the believer would have accepted baptism if given the chance. This does not contradict the Church’s teaching that baptism is necessary (CCC1257) because the fruits of baptism happened to be applied extraordinarily.

The Catechism which I quoted is the Church teaching. Imperfect contrition cannot obtain the the forgiveness of grave sins.
Purgatory and Heaven BOTH mean you are saved. Nobody who dies in a state of mortal sin gets to Purgatory. Hell is the only destination for someone dying in a state of mortal sin.

 

[MarcoPolo]

The Catechism which I quoted is the Church teaching. Imperfect contrition cannot obtain the the forgiveness of grave sins.
Purgatory and Heaven BOTH mean you are saved. Nobody who dies in a state of mortal sin gets to Purgatory. Hell is the only destination for someone dying in a state of mortal sin.

Indeed, without the gift of the sacrament of Confession, then imperfect contrition is not enough. My point:

The Catechism is silent on a “Confession by Desire”. I was only applying the principle in the Catechism relating to baptism, and extending the heritage of that theology to another sacrament—meaning the effects of Confession could still be applied to the penitent even though he had not formally received the sacrament (in the same manner as those in Baptism of Desire, the principle of which is described in the Catechism). I could be wrong and I’m not aware off-hand of anything specifically addressing this. I am only opining what I understand as the theology of the Church.

 

[thistle]

Indeed, without the gift of the sacrament of Confession, then imperfect contrition is not enough. My point:

The Catechism is silent on a “Confession by Desire”. I was only applying the principle in the Catechism relating to baptism, and extending the heritage of that theology to another sacrament—meaning the effects of Confession could still be applied to the penitent even though he had not formally received the sacrament (in the same manner as those in Baptism of Desire, the principle of which is described in the Catechism). I could be wrong and I’m not aware off-hand of anything specifically addressing this. I am only opining what I understand as the theology of the Church.

There is no such thing but if there was it would be akin to an act of Perfect Contrition and not an act of Imperfect contrition.

 

[MarcoPolo]

There is no such thing but if there was it would be akin to an act of Perfect Contrition and not an act of Imperfect contrition.

You may be correct, but I was only saying that the Church could make this assertion without contradicting any past teaching, based on the teaching in the Catechism that God is “not bound by His sacraments” (CCC1257).

 

[expectthebest]

This is a good point. I still see a lot of disagreement on this. I will say that it seems out of step with God’s mercy to damn a person who had the intention of receiving the Sacrement but was unable too. How is this merciful?

 

[thistle]

This is a good point. I still see a lot of disagreement on this. I will say that it seems out of step with God’s mercy to damn a person who had the intention of receiving the Sacrement but was unable too. How is this merciful?

If a person made an act of Perfect Contrition and died before they got to Confession then their sins would be forgiven.
If a person makes an act of Imperfect Contrition and died before they go to Confession then their sins are not forgiven.
If you are implying that with Imperfect Contrition they should be saved then you are going down the road of Protestants.

 

[w_stewart]

I don’t think we can have a definite answer to this question. If a person makes an imperfect contrition and desires to have confession but dies before the actual confession, I don’t think God is so cruel to send this person with intention to reconcile with him to hell. God is so merciful and as MarcoPolo says, he is not bound by his sacraments.

 

[thistle]

I don’t think we can have a definite answer to this question. If a person makes an imperfect contrition and desires to have confession but dies before the actual confession, I don’t think God is so cruel to send this person with intention to reconcile with him to hell. God is so merciful and as MarcoPolo says, he is not bound by his sacraments.

How may times do we have to say this. God does not send anyone to Hell. People that go to Hell do so through their own choice of committing a mortal sin and dying in that state.
Stop speculating and listen to the Church teaching. Imperfect Contrition does NOT forgive mortal sins. Therefore if someone immediately dies after an act of Imperfect Contrition they are still in a state of mortal sin so objectively they would go to Hell.

Your comments remind me, for example, of active gay people who say if God is a loving God then why would he send them to Hell when they believe in God, and do no harm and love their partner.

Christ gave authority to the Church so why don’t you listen to the Church and accept and obey its teachings.

 

[theMutant]

By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.

For clarification.

The point in my previous answer was the there was the intention to confess - he died before he could get to confession. Therefore, if there is also the intention to confess, the imperfect contrition is not by itself. If the sinner has every intention of confessing, but dies before he can do so, I believe there is the possibility of forgiveness. I would also add, however, that I believe the intention would have to be to confess as soon as possible. This is the attitude we should all have toward confession. Don’t wait. Any delay would need to be caused by a genuine inability to get to confession, not because it was merely inconvenient at that time.

If there was no intention to confess, then there is no forgiveness for imperfect contrition. After all, the level of contrition was obviously less than that of the person who intended to confess.

 

[theMutant]

To thistle and MarcoPolo,

I think that there are many ways in which you are both correct.

1: The Catechism does say that sins will not be forgiven based on imperfect contrition by itself.

2: There Catechism does say that God is not bound by His Sacraments. That is the very basis of the doctrines of Baptism of Blood and Baptism of Desire. Neither of these are Sacraments, but it has been revealed that they will have the same effect. The Church admits that God grants His Grace according to His Will, and that there are possibilities which have simply not been revealed to the Church.

3: The idea, with which I agree, that the is the possibility of forgiveness based on imperfect combined with the sincere intent to confess as soon as possible is not incompatible with any of the above. There is certainly consistency between the idea of forgiveness based on the sincere desire to confess and the doctrine of receiving baptismal graces based on the sincere desire to get baptized. However, we must remember that we are only discussing theory - we are to live by the Faith.

The fact is that, unless the Church makes an authoritative, infallible declaration showing how the idea of “Confession by Desire” is consistent with the constant teaching of the Church, we are only discussing theories based based on reason, but on which we cannot rely.

There is no possibility of forgiveness based solely on imperfect contrition. The very fact that the Catechism includes “by itself” in the statement quoted by thistle shows that there could be a possibility if the imperfect contrition is not “by itself.” We must ultimately leave such things to God, but don’t take chances. Moved by our contrition, we must seek the Sacrament as soon as possible.

 

[thistle]

For clarification.

The point in my previous answer was the there was the intention to confess - he died before he could get to confession. Therefore, if there is also the intention to confess, the imperfect contrition is not by itself. If the sinner has every intention of confessing, but dies before he can do so, I believe there is the possibility of forgiveness. I would also add, however, that I believe the intention would have to be to confess as soon as possible. This is the attitude we should all have toward confession. Don’t wait. Any delay would need to be caused by a genuine inability to get to confession, not because it was merely inconvenient at that time.

If there was no intention to confess, then there is no forgiveness for imperfect contrition. After all, the level of contrition was obviously less than that of the person who intended to confess.

With an act of Imperfect Contrition it is a requirement to go to Confession in order for your mortal sins to be forgiven. The intent is therefore irrelevant as it is already a requirement. With an act of Imperfect Contrition there is no forgiveness of mortal sins outside the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Don’t try to make up a new teaching.

The intent to go to Confession as soon as possible relates to an act of Perfect Contrition.

 

[theMutant]

The intent to go to Confession as soon as possible relates to an act of Perfect Contrition.

I don’t think that the one necessarily indicates the other, but I may be quibbling semantics. If you are right, then my argument crumbles. Wouldn’t be the first time…

Also, I never try to make up new teaching. I only try to understand the full implications of existing teaching.

 

[w_stewart]

How may times do we have to say this. God does not send anyone to Hell.

I am sorry for not being so clear in my usage of the term “send”. It is also my understanding that God does not will anyone for hell.

People that go to Hell do so through their own choice of committing a mortal sin and dying in that state.
Stop speculating and listen to the Church teaching. Imperfect Contrition does NOT forgive mortal sins. Therefore if someone immediately dies after an act of Imperfect Contrition they are still in a state of mortal sin so objectively they would go to Hell.

I understand your arguments perfectly as I have also a hard copy of the CCC. But what I was saying is that God “might” consider one’s sincere intention to have reconciliation with him through the sacrament of confession. Do you sincerely and honestly believe that God will not save the person who committed mortal sin but has imperfect contrition and has sincerely sought reconciliation with God through the Sacrament of Confession but unable due to his “sudden” death?

Your comments remind me, for example, of active gay people who say if God is a loving God then why would he send them to Hell when they believe in God, and do no harm and love their partner.

This is irrelevant.

Christ gave authority to the Church so why don’t you listen to the Church and accept and obey its teachings.

I do not reject any of the Church’s teaching. I wonder where you got that idea.

 

[w_stewart]

With an act of Imperfect Contrition it is a requirement to go to Confession in order for your mortal sins to be forgiven. The intent is therefore irrelevant as it is already a requirement. With an act of Imperfect Contrition there is no forgiveness of mortal sins outside the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Don’t try to make up a new teaching.

The intent to go to Confession as soon as possible relates to an act of Perfect Contrition.

But we have to admit that it is a possibility that there are those who have an act of imperfect contrition but have no intention to go to confession.

In addition, CCC does not state that intention to go to confession is an inherent part of imperfect contrition, without which, there is no imperfect contrition. What I am saying is that imperfect contrition is distinct and separate from the intention to go to confession and the two do not necessarily go together. Imperfect contrition by itself, cannot forgive mortal sins. But imperfect contrition plus sincere intention to seek reconciliation with God through the Sacrament of Confession can. And I believe sincere intention is what the merciful God is required of us.

Here is what the CCC states:

1453 The contrition called “imperfect” (or “attrition”) is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin’s ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.