Convalidation Ceremony Only Option? :(

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CATHOLICDURHAM8

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Hi All,

I’ve had some bad news from a priest… My fiancée and I are living in separate countries - she’s in Peru and I’m in the UK, she’s Peruvian and I’m British. We planned to have a civil wedding in Lima/Peru in September and then a Catholic wedding (white dress) early 2016 in the UK where we will be based after completing the Spouse visa process (spouse visa relates to her applying to UK so she can live here). The priest said that the Catholic Church only allows a convalidation and not a Catholic ceremony after a civil wedding…

Is this 100% fact/true? Is the UK different to other countries? We’re not Catholics returning to the church to validate a civil wedding… We’re practicing Catholics and we want a Catholic wedding so it seems weird… My fiancée and I are totally confused and shocked.

You’re quick/informed response would be greatly appreciated - I hope that the priest is incorrect 😦

God bless,

D
 
You are Catholics and therefore required to follow Church law on marriage. You may not marry civilly. If you do, you are in a invalid marriage just like the “returning Catholic” you refer to. You are no different. Yes, it is a convalidation that occurs because you have exchanged consent invalidly in a civil ceremony.

Regarding what may or may not be allowed for a convalidation ceremony, that is up to your bishop. You will need to take that up locally. Others sharing what they were or were not allowed at their convalidation will not be helpful, because they do not live in your diocese and are not under the authority of your bishop.

Instead of entering into an invalid marriage through a civil ceremony, I suggest you do it correctly from the beginning. Prepare for marriage and have a Catholic ceremony from the start. There is no reason to do otherwise. You are not the first couple to be married while living in different countries. Follow the law of both the immigration requirements AND the Church.
 
CATHOLICDURHAM8 said:
We planned to have a civil wedding in Lima/Peru in September and then a Catholic wedding (white dress) early 2016 in the UK where we will be based after completing the Spouse visa process (spouse visa relates to her applying to UK so she can live here).
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Is there some reason you cannot have a Catholic wedding in Peru?
 
1ke said:
You are Catholics and therefore required to follow Church law on marriage. You may not marry civilly. If you do, you are in a invalid marriage just like the “returning Catholic” you refer to. You are no different. Yes, it is a convalidation that occurs because you have exchanged consent invalidly in a civil ceremony.

Regarding what may or may not be allowed for a convalidation ceremony, that is up to your bishop. You will need to take that up locally. Others sharing what they were or were not allowed at their convalidation will not be helpful, because they do not live in your diocese and are not under the authority of your bishop.

Instead of entering into an invalid marriage through a civil ceremony, I suggest you do it correctly from the beginning. Prepare for marriage and have a Catholic ceremony from the start. There is no reason to do otherwise. You are not the first couple to be married while living in different countries. Follow the law of both the immigration requirements AND the Church.
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There are some countries -France is one, and Peru happens to be one as well- where a religious wedding carries no legal weight as priests are not licensed to perform legal weddings. Therefore a couple is required to have a civil marriage first before the religious wedding.

Obviously this is not the case in the UK where a priest can legally marry if I’m not mistaken. So the priest is speaking correctly for the UK but the situation is different in Peru. Perhaps it would be possible to change your plans and have both the civil and religious parts in Peru?

In any case a convalidation ceremony may be as much as a full Catholic wedding in the context of a Mass or it can be a simple ceremony outside of Mass, so it may not be as heartbreaking as it seems. Whether that’s the case in the UK I can’t say, but here in Canada it is.

The OP should speak to the UK priest and bring up the notion of civil law in Peru requiring a civil marriage before a religious one. Then you can explore your options with him, as this is an unusual situation.
 
In fact the UK also does not recognise religious marriage other than one conducted in the Church of England as civilly binding. Civil marriage is usually conducted by the priest (if he is a registrar) in the sacristy afterwards. It seems a bit harsh not to marry you after a civil ceremony which you are going through just for the sake of bureaucracy
 
Is it the bishop who determines how much time is allowed to elapse between civil and Church exchange of vows in countries where they are separate ceremonies?
 
CATHOLICDURHAM8 said:
Hi All,

I’ve had some bad news from a priest… My fiancée and I are living in separate countries - she’s in Peru and I’m in the UK, she’s Peruvian and I’m British. We planned to have a civil wedding in Lima/Peru in September and then a Catholic wedding (white dress) early 2016 in the UK where we will be based after completing the Spouse visa process (spouse visa relates to her applying to UK so she can live here). The priest said that the Catholic Church only allows a convalidation and not a Catholic ceremony after a civil wedding…

Is this 100% fact/true? Is the UK different to other countries? We’re not Catholics returning to the church to validate a civil wedding… We’re practicing Catholics and we want a Catholic wedding so it seems weird… My fiancée and I are totally confused and shocked.

You’re quick/informed response would be greatly appreciated - I hope that the priest is incorrect 😦

God bless,

D
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Your priest is correct; however, there should be nothing to stop the convalidation from being as simple or elaborate (the white dress thing) as you want. I understand you are probably doing this for legal reasons, but I would hope you have the civil ceremony 20 minutes before the plane leaves for England and save the rest for after the Catholic convalidation.
 
My wife and I had a civil wedding. When our daughter was going for her 1st communion our Pastor REALLY recommended that we get married by the church. On our wedding anniversary that year we were (re-)married by the church. It was a normal wedding ceremony at the church. It was in the Los Angeles Archdiocese.
 
I can’t speak on what is allowed in other countries, but here in the US, my husband and I had our marriage convalidated 12 years after our civil marriage, after my return and his conversion into the Church. Our pastor regularly referred to it as our “wedding,” and said it could be whatever we wanted. So if we had wanted a big formal wedding, we could have waited several months for a Saturday. We opted for a family-only Wednesday afternoon so we could shorten our waiting time, especially since we had been living as “brother and sister” in separate rooms for several months already, waiting for his conversion and our new wedding date. So here, for us, it could have been a white dress and veil event if we had wanted it to be. Hope you work it all out!
 
Hi everyone,

Thank you for your replies. I think that this is really dumb. We’re practicing Catholics and the priest is not supporting us at all. It’s hard work with the visa and Catholic “wedding” plans. I personally think that it’s really stupid… If I were a priest, like in some examples, I’d understand and I’d assist with the marriage knowing that it’s difficult for us both under the circumstances.

My fiancée is going to email the Bishop, copying in myself and the priest, so we’ll see what happens - maybe she’ll explain it better.

I hope to not be let down by the Catholic Church but if “procedures” aren’t practical and we end up married in the eyes of God then I guess it’ll be OK. Pretty disappointed knowing that my future wife and I could potentially not have memories of a proper wedding but we love each other and we want to be together.

God bless,

Dylan
 
CATHOLICDURHAM8 said:
Hi All,

I’ve had some bad news from a priest… My fiancée and I are living in separate countries - she’s in Peru and I’m in the UK, she’s Peruvian and I’m British. We planned to have a civil wedding in Lima/Peru in September and then a Catholic wedding (white dress) early 2016 in the UK where we will be based after completing the Spouse visa process (spouse visa relates to her applying to UK so she can live here). The priest said that the Catholic Church only allows a convalidation and not a Catholic ceremony after a civil wedding…

Is this 100% fact/true? Is the UK different to other countries? We’re not Catholics returning to the church to validate a civil wedding… We’re practicing Catholics and we want a Catholic wedding so it seems weird… My fiancée and I are totally confused and shocked.

You’re quick/informed response would be greatly appreciated - I hope that the priest is incorrect 😦

God bless,

D
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There should be no impediments so it is important to work with the Church to verify that before getting married. In some countries the Catholic wedding is not legally valid, so the civil marriage must occur first. In countries that grant no civil recognition to the religious celebration there are usually a civil and a religious celebration. This may be the case in European and Latin American countries.

In most cases the civil celebration is before the religious by as short as a few hours, days or even longer. But the Church does not recognize the civil celebration so the faithful Catholics only begin married life once the sacramental celebration has taken place.

The convalidation is a Catholic marriage celebration and may be celebrated within Mass or not, depending on the situation of the couple. If both are Catholic, then it is fitting that the convalidation be within Mass, but if one spouse is not, then it is preferable that it be celebrated outside of Mass.

Canon law (CIC):
SIMPLE CONVALIDATION
Can. 1156 §1. To convalidate a marriage which is invalid because of a diriment impediment, it is required that the impediment ceases or is dispensed and that at least the party conscious of the impediment renews consent.
§2. Ecclesiastical law requires this renewal for the validity of the convalidation even if each party gave consent at the beginning and did not revoke it afterwards.
 
CATHOLICDURHAM8 said:
Hi All,

I’ve had some bad news from a priest… My fiancée and I are living in separate countries - she’s in Peru and I’m in the UK, she’s Peruvian and I’m British. We planned to have a civil wedding in Lima/Peru in September and then a Catholic wedding (white dress) early 2016 in the UK where we will be based after completing the Spouse visa process (spouse visa relates to her applying to UK so she can live here). The priest said that the Catholic Church only allows a convalidation and not a Catholic ceremony after a civil wedding…
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Do you understand that as far as the ceremony goes there is no difference between a convalidation and a regular wedding?

He’s right that he can only do a convalidation. It’s called a convalidation because it is making an existing invalid (as far as the Church is concerned) legal marriage into a valid marriage.
 
CATHOLICDURHAM8 said:
I hope to not be let down by the Catholic Church but if “procedures” aren’t practical and we end up married in the eyes of God then I guess it’ll be OK. Pretty disappointed knowing that my future wife and I could potentially not have memories of a proper wedding but we love each other and we want to be together.

God bless,

Dylan
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You certainly can have memories of a proper wedding. You do things correctly from the beginning, even if they are hard.

The attitude you have in this post sounds like that of a spoiled child, not a man seeking a sacrament. I am sure that is just frustration coming through, but really step back and think about the sacrament of marriage, not some fantasy you or the bride has about how a wedding is supposed to look.
 
Cheers for the insulation 1ke 👍

It’s very difficult living apart from your loved one and our priority is being together, if we can be married in the eyes of God and together very soon then that’s excellent so we can have a lovely Catholic family.

After talking to my fiancée about the shock of the news we’re going to either go with a Catholic wedding in Peru if possible or the convalidation in the UK.

It’s very stressful at the moment as I’ve just moved to a new city for a new job, sorting out accommodation for us, many things associated with the the visa process, changing parishes, etc.

Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut everyone.

God bless you all.
 
1ke said:
Instead of entering into an invalid marriage through a civil ceremony, I suggest you do it correctly from the beginning. Prepare for marriage and have a Catholic ceremony from the start. There is no reason to do otherwise. You are not the first couple to be married while living in different countries. ** Follow the law of both the immigration requirements AND the Church**.
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Sometimes it might not be possible to follow the immigration requirements and the law of the Church. I have friends who dealt with this issue. The wife came the U.S. on a fiancee visa, which requires that the marriage take place within 90 days. Since the Church required 6 months and they were not able to complete pre-Cana requirements while living in separate countires, they had a civil ceremony within the required 90 days, continued to live separately (she was staying with family friends), and had a church wedding at the appropriate time. These were faithful Catholics, and this was done under the guidance of their priest and presumably with the consent of their Bishop. 15 years and 9 children later, they celebrate their one and only wedding anniversary on the date that their Sacrament of Holy Matrimony occurred.
 
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