Convalidation for converts

[tizzidale]

If a couple are Protestant, married, etc. and one of them converts - does the marriage have to be convalidated? Or is that a process only for Catholics who were married outside the authority of the Church?

 

[puzzleannie]

the marriage between two protestants (or any two non-Catholics for that matter) is presumed valid if each was otherwise free to marry (no previous valid marriage etc.). so nothing needs to be done if one or both become Catholic, unless there is reason to believe the marriage is not valid from its root.

 

[st_felicity]

the marriage between two protestants (or any two non-Catholics for that matter) is presumed valid if each was otherwise free to marry (no previous valid marriage etc.). so nothing needs to be done if one or both become Catholic, unless there is reason to believe the marriage is not valid from its root.

I think to be able to recieve Eucharist a Catholic person has to have the marriage convalidated whether or not the spouse is Catholic.

No–I KNOW that to be true.

 

[puzzleannie]

I think to be able to recieve Eucharist a Catholic person has to have the marriage convalidated whether or not the spouse is Catholic.

No–I KNOW that to be true.

OP was referring to a non-Catholic who converts, not to a CAtholic who marries under binding marriage laws of the Church. Convalidation is the process by which a CAtholic who has married outside those laws submits to Church authority in that area and has the marriage witnessed by a priest or deacon.

Marriages of non-Catholics are presumed valid until proven otherwise, so if a non-Catholic converts no action needs to be taken unless there is a situation (such as a previous marriage) that would have rendered the marriage invalid in any case.

Part of the process of converting is an in depth interview with the pastor that uncovers any situation, such as marriage or other lifestyle issues that must be addressed in order for the person to approach the sacraments.

 

[SMHW]

I would just add that marriages (assuming no impediment existed, yada, yada, yada…) between baptized non-Catholics are not only presumed to be valid but *sacramental *as well.

If one or both members of this marriage convert to Catholicism there would be nothing that could happen as a result of convalidation since the marriage was already valid, licit, and sacramental.

Convalidation is necessary when a marriage is not valid or licit.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

If a couple are Protestant, married, etc. and one of them converts - does the marriage have to be convalidated? Or is that a process only for Catholics who were married outside the authority of the Church?

Not if it’s a valid Marriage. Meaning neither party was Catholic (practicing or non-practicing) and neither has ever been Married and divorced.

 

[st_felicity]

OP was referring to a non-Catholic who converts, not to a CAtholic who marries under binding marriage laws of the Church. Convalidation is the process by which a CAtholic who has married outside those laws submits to Church authority in that area and has the marriage witnessed by a priest or deacon.

Marriages of non-Catholics are presumed valid until proven otherwise, so if a non-Catholic converts no action needs to be taken unless there is a situation (such as a previous marriage) that would have rendered the marriage invalid in any case.

Part of the process of converting is an in depth interview with the pastor that uncovers any situation, such as marriage or other lifestyle issues that must be addressed in order for the person to approach the sacraments.

ah-ha! THANK YOU!

 

[st_felicity]

I want to bump this thread because I have another question relevant to it.

I’m going to be teaching the RCIA class this fall, and I was told by the prior director of the program that all the marriages done outside the Catholic Church need convalidating because there isn’t a standard rubric in various communities that assure a valid sacrament.

So I want to be correct on this… Yes–need convalidation, or No–don’t need convalidation. Please explain as necessary. This will be a great help to me.

1. Non-Catholic couple, married only once to eachother, mainstream Christian church wedding by ordained minister, both converting.
2. Same as above, only one converting.
3. Non-Baptised, but married in mainstream Christian church by ordained minister (I dunno–does that happen? I assume probably since many churches record-keeping leaves something to be desired. --They would be encouraged to live as brother and sister until baptism and then convalidation, right?)
4. What about those that are on second marriages and need an annulment, but the second marriage was done by an ordained minister from a mainstream Christian community? (That would be a “need convalidation” situation, right?)

I’m sure I’ll think of more I’m confused about…such a mess the state of marriage is these days.:hypno: :nope:

 

[st_felicity]

Also…what Church document can I refer to for this info…?

 

[st_felicity]

What about those that are on second marriages and need an annulment, but the second marriage was done by an ordained minister from a mainstream Christian community? That would be a “need convalidation” situation, right?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I want to bump this thread because I have another question relevant to it.

I’m going to be teaching the RCIA class this fall, and I was told by the prior director of the program that all the marriages done outside the Catholic Church need convalidating because there isn’t a standard rubric in various communities that assure a valid sacrament.

So I want to be correct on this… Yes–need convalidation, or No–don’t need convalidation. Please explain as necessary. This will be a great help to me.

1. Non-Catholic couple, married only once to eachother, mainstream Christian church wedding by ordained minister, both converting.
2. Same as above, only one converting.
3. Non-Baptised, but married in mainstream Christian church by ordained minister (I dunno–does that happen? I assume probably since many churches record-keeping leaves something to be desired. --They would be encouraged to live as brother and sister until baptism and then convalidation, right?)
4. What about those that are on second marriages and need an annulment, but the second marriage was done by an ordained minister from a mainstream Christian community? (That would be a “need convalidation” situation, right?)

I’m sure I’ll think of more I’m confused about…such a mess the state of marriage is these days.:hypno: :nope:

Each case should be carefully considered individually by a qualified person.

In general:

1. Most likely nothing needs to be done.
2. Most likely nothing needs to be done.

Reason: In Canon Law - All Marriages are considered to be valid until proven otherwise and a valid Marriage between two Validly Baptized persons is always a Sacrament.

1. Non-Sacramental Marriage becomes Sacramental at the moment the non-Baptized person is Baptized. They continue to live as husband and wife they are validly but not Sacramentally Married.
2. They would need to speak with the pastor and he would need to tell them to live separately until the Marriage issue is resolved.

Either one or both would need to start the Annullment process as needed. They could become Catechumens and Candidates but could not enter the Church until this is resolved. Wether the new exchange of vows takes place after or before reception is a matter of opinion.

Something was cleared up for me on another thread.

I said that a person cannot accidentally celebrate a Sacrament, they must intend to do so. Which is true, there must be an Intent. That intent must be postitvely excluded to be lacking. If implied in some way, in other words a couple intends to enter into a Christian Marriage. That Intent would translate into the general intent to enter into a Sacramental Marriage had they understood Christian Marriage to be a Sacrament. Since they didn’t positively exclude the Sacrament of Marriage.

 

[1ke]

I want to bump this thread because I have another question relevant to it.

I’m going to be teaching the RCIA class this fall, and I was told by the prior director of the program that all the marriages done outside the Catholic Church need convalidating because there isn’t a standard rubric in various communities that assure a valid sacrament.

Wow, that is completely inaccurate. Don’t RCIA directors get training in your diocese?

You need to go to a class to make sure you are up to date on these topics.

1. Non-Catholic couple, married only once to eachother, mainstream Christian church wedding by ordained minister, both converting.
2. Same as above, only one converting.
3. Non-Baptised, but married in mainstream Christian church by ordained minister (I dunno–does that happen? I assume probably since many churches record-keeping leaves something to be desired. --They would be encouraged to live as brother and sister until baptism and then convalidation, right?)

None of these marriages requires any action. They are all valid based on your description that these are first and only marriages (and presuming no other divine law impediments). Also, whether they were married by a minister or not is irrelevant. The non-Catholic marriages would be valid if they went to a civil authority to contract marriage.

The marriages of baptized persons in your examples are also sacramental. The valid marriage of the non-baptized person becomes a sacrament when they are baptized if the other spouse is baptized.

You need to take a class. I am not trying to insult you, but you really have no idea what the Church teaches in this area and it’s not a good idea for you to be giving advice to those who will be converting until you know what you are talking about.

PLEASE contact your diocese.

1. What about those that are on second marriages and need an annulment, but the second marriage was done by an ordained minister from a mainstream Christian community? (That would be a “need convalidation” situation, right?)

A person who attempts a second marriage is in an invalid marriage. The marriage bonds must be examined through the tribunal process. The fact that the second marriage was performed by a minister has NO relevance. It’s an invalid marriage since they had a prior bond. This entire situation would need the guidance of a compentent authority in the diocese.

I’m sure I’ll think of more I’m confused about…such a mess the state of marriage is these days.:hypno: :nope:

Please get training on what you are to do and when you guide people to the pastor or marriage tribunal. Don’t try to guess at whether people’s marriages are valid or not.

 

[st_felicity]

Each case should be carefully considered individually by a qualified person.

In general:

1. Most likely nothing needs to be done.
2. Most likely nothing needs to be done.

Reason: In Canon Law - All Marriages are considered to be valid until proven otherwise and a valid Marriage between two Validly Baptized persons is always a Sacrament.

1. Non-Sacramental Marriage becomes Sacramental at the moment the non-Baptized person is Baptized. They continue to live as husband and wife they are validly but not Sacramentally Married.
2. They would need to speak with the pastor and he would need to tell them to live separately until the Marriage issue is resolved.

Either one or both would need to start the Annullment process as needed. They could become Catechumens and Candidates but could not enter the Church until this is resolved. Wether the new exchange of vows takes place after or before reception is a matter of opinion.

Something was cleared up for me on another thread.

I said that a person cannot accidentally celebrate a Sacrament, they must intend to do so. Which is true, there must be an Intent. That intent must be postitvely excluded to be lacking. If implied in some way, in other words a couple intends to enter into a Christian Marriage. That Intent would translate into the general intent to enter into a Sacramental Marriage had they understood Christian Marriage to be a Sacrament. Since they didn’t positively exclude the Sacrament of Marriage.

Thank you …that’s very helpful.

 

[st_felicity]

You need to take a class. I am not trying to insult you, but you really have no idea what the Church teaches in this area and it’s not a good idea for you to be giving advice to those who will be converting until you know what you are talking about.

Any question that I have in a situation, I of course would refer to our parish priest. I do not think one needs to be an expert in canon law to faithfully help a person on the journey into the Church. I have had some training, not specific to RCIA, but Catechetical training and I will be continuing to educate myself. The parish was in need this year and I stepped up.

I asked these questions for my own edification so that when I speak to the priest on the issue, I would know more clearly what he would need to know. I want to be prepared in case any of the hypotheticals present themselves.

 

[st_felicity]

The valid marriage of the non-baptized person becomes a sacrament when they are baptized if the other spouse is baptized.

What if the other spouse isn’t baptised?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

What if the other spouse isn’t baptised?

Then it remains a valid but non-Sacramental marriage until both are Baptized.

 

[puzzleannie]

I want to bump this thread because I have another question relevant to it.

I’m going to be teaching the RCIA class this fall, and I was told by the prior director of the program that all the marriages done outside the Catholic Church need convalidating because there isn’t a standard rubric in various communities that assure a valid sacrament.

So I want to be correct on this… Yes–need convalidation, or No–don’t need convalidation. Please explain as necessary. This will be a great help to me.

these matters should be addressed by the priest or deacon who interviews the candidate, or by the RCIA director if he has that taks, not by the catechist, and certainly not during the RCIA class. When people bring up these issues in class, refer them to the pastor, and make sure the pastor tells you and the candidate their status, what steps they need to take, and check back with the pastor closer to the date of reception to make sure everything is in place.

 

[st_felicity]

these matters should be addressed by the priest or deacon who interviews the candidate, or by the RCIA director if he has that taks, not by the catechist, and certainly not during the RCIA class. When people bring up these issues in class, refer them to the pastor, and make sure the pastor tells you and the candidate their status, what steps they need to take, and check back with the pastor closer to the date of reception to make sure everything is in place.

I’m sorry if you guys misunderstood–i won’t be doing anything but helping father know the situation and sort-of explaining to the candidates what they are goiong to see father about…My Pastor runs three local parishes since we are a smallish city with a lot of rural areas surrounding. He’s very busy and would appreciate a sort-of heads up–that’s all. I am well aware that I have nothing to do with the process other than facilitating by helping to convey information.