Convalidation?

[Brianmcg321]

I am Catholic and was married in an Episcopalian Church. There was a Catholic Priest present as he was a good friend of my wife’s.

However, his name does not appear on the marriage license or as witness on anything.

Other than pictures of him at the wedding, is there something else I need to do or let our priest know so that our marriage is considered valid?

 

[Jon_S_1]

I am Catholic and was married in an Episcopalian Church. There was a Catholic Priest present as he was a good friend of my wife’s.

However, his name does not appear on the marriage license or as witness on anything.

Other than pictures of him at the wedding, is there something else I need to do or let our priest know so that our marriage is considered valid?

Simply having a Catholic priest there does not make it valid.

You needed to either be married by a Catholic Priest in a Catholic Church, or you needed to get a dispensation to be married in the Episcopal Church from you Bishop.

If neither of those happened you need to have a Convalidation done.

 

[Catholic1954]

I am Catholic and was married in an Episcopalian Church. There was a Catholic Priest present as he was a good friend of my wife’s.

However, his name does not appear on the marriage license or as witness on anything.

Other than pictures of him at the wedding, is there something else I need to do or let our priest know so that our marriage is considered valid?

It sounds like the priest was a guest and not involved in the ceremony. Can you contact him and see what he has to say about your marriage?

 

[Usige]

I am assuming that your wife was/is Episcopalian(?). If so and you did not request a dispensation the Church would not consider the marriage valid. If not and you were both Catholic you should not have been able to get a dispensation to marry outside the Church. A Catholic priest or deacon there as a guest does not qualify to make it valid. The validity is not based on a priest being present, but that the marriage be performed using the Latin Church rites.

If the above is true there are two option to make your marriage valid. First is to convalidate the marriage. This involves exchanging vows before a member of the clergy and two witnesses. The Church would consider you marriage to have taken place at the time of the convalidation, not when you exchanged vows in the Episcopal ceremony. The other option is a radical sanation. This is a request of your bishop to retroactively dispense you from canonical form. This is normally only done if a convalidation is not possible for some reason (i.e. spouse refuses to consent to exchanging vows anew).

Your pastor should be able to walk you through the process in either case.

 

[Brianmcg321]

He wasn’t a guest. He participated in the ceremony.

Both he and the Episcopalian Priest grew up with my wife.

I guess I should just ask a Priest about it.

 

[Usige]

He wasn’t a guest. He participated in the ceremony.

Both he and the Episcopalian Priest grew up with my wife.

I guess I should just ask a Priest about it.

You definitely need to ask what was gon on. Canon law is very clear that what you describe is forbiden. Even if he participated it is illicit for a member of the clergy to participate in a mixed rite ceremony.

Canon 1127§3. It is forbidden to have another religious celebration of the same marriage to give or renew matrimonial consent before or after the canonical celebration according to the norm of §1. Likewise, there is not to be a religious celebration in which the Catholic who is assisting and a non-Catholic minister together, using their own rites, ask for the consent of the parties.

If she was not Catholic you or the priest would also have had to get a dispensation for you to marry a non-Catholic. If done validly both dispensations and the marriage should all be recorded in your baptismal records or at the least in the parish Church where the Episcopalian church is located. The priest might have been acting as a friend to your wife, but that doesn’t mean he was acting as a member of the Catholic clergy. You would also need to ask him if he had been granted faculties to witness the marriage if he was outside of his parish or diocese.

While it is possible that everything was done as required, the way it is described raises a number of red flags about its validity according to canon law.

 

[Vico]

I am Catholic and was married in an Episcopalian Church. There was a Catholic Priest present as he was a good friend of my wife’s.

However, his name does not appear on the marriage license or as witness on anything.

Other than pictures of him at the wedding, is there something else I need to do or let our priest know so that our marriage is considered valid?

If it was a legitimate Catholic marriage then there will be a record of it in the Catholic Church records, it would be noted in the baptism record at the parish of your Catholic baptism if you had a Catholic baptism before marriage. If you converted then was your marriage before conversion?

 

[Irishmom2]

If it was a legitimate Catholic marriage then there will be a record of it in the Catholic Church records, it would be noted in the baptism record at the parish of your Catholic baptism if you had a Catholic baptism before marriage. If you converted then was your marriage before conversion?

Not to get off topic, but I don’t think part of this is correct. I am not sure that marriages are always recorded at the church of one’s baptism if it is not the church they are married at. Can anyone answer this? My marriage was in a different city, and the church I was baptized in no longer exists anyway.

 

[AllieT]

Not to get off topic, but I don’t think part of this is correct. I am not sure that marriages are always recorded at the church of one’s baptism if it is not the church they are married at. Can anyone answer this? My marriage was in a different city, and the church I was baptized in no longer exists anyway.

It’s correct as far as I know. When we had our marriage convalidated last November, our Pastor informed us that the records of your sacraments are recorded and held at the Church you were originally baptized in. My church now may have copies of my baptism record (which includes notations on the back showing my First Communion & Confirmation), but if I need an original updated copy, I need to contact the church I was baptized in. In the case of a closed church, I’d contact the diocese offices to see where the records were forwarded to…

 

[Phemie]

OK. Let’s take this one step at a time.

Did you prepare with your priest before your wedding?

If you did, it’s quite possible that the word dispensation never arose in the conversation. The Catholic says “We’d like to get married in my spouse’s church,” and the priest takes it from there. Beyond signing the forms promising not to defect from the Faith and to do everything in his/her power to have the children baptized and raised Catholic, the Catholic him/herself is not involved in requesting a dispensation to marry a non-baptized or to marry with lack of form, the priest does all that and the couple may never even be informed.

If you never saw a priest before your wedding, then you may have a problem.

 

[Phemie]

Not to get off topic, but I don’t think part of this is correct. I am not sure that marriages are always recorded at the church of one’s baptism if it is not the church they are married at. Can anyone answer this? My marriage was in a different city, and the church I was baptized in no longer exists anyway.

Yes, the parish where you marry will notify the parish where you were baptized if they are not one and the same. Your marriage is entered in your baptismal record, as long as you have a valid marriage.

 

[1ke]

Not to get off topic, but I don’t think part of this is correct. I am not sure that marriages are always recorded at the church of one’s baptism if it is not the church they are married at. Can anyone answer this? My marriage was in a different city, and the church I was baptized in no longer exists anyway.

Yes it is correct. It is the law f the Church in fact.

In cases where a parish is closed the records are either transferred to the surviving parish or the diocese.

 

[Vico]

Not to get off topic, but I don’t think part of this is correct. I am not sure that marriages are always recorded at the church of one’s baptism if it is not the church they are married at. Can anyone answer this? My marriage was in a different city, and the church I was baptized in no longer exists anyway.

The Catholic minister of the marriage (including convalidations) is by canon law, to notiify to the Catholic parish of Baptism or of Reception into Full Communion. If it no longer exists, then the records are transferred. Sometimes records have been destroyed in a disaster.

For example from CIC canon law:Can. 1121
§1. After a marriage has been celebrated, the pastor of the place
of the celebration or the person who takes his place, even if
neither assisted at the marriage, is to note as soon as possible
in the marriage register the names of the spouses, the person
who assisted, and the witnesses, and the place and date of the
celebration of the marriage according to the method prescribed by
the conference of bishops or the diocesan bishop.

Can. 1122
§1. The contracted marriage is to be noted also in the baptismal
registers in which the baptism of the spouses has been recorded.

Here is a PDF on the canons:
google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fsccatholic.org%2Fdownloads%2Farchives%2FSacramental_Records_Handbook_2nd_edition_with_cover_for_web.pdf&ei=CJgJVcWSIcbCggThr4TQBA&usg=AFQjCNEmGVBzNpkJIiXx2dx6w-Ibiz0YbQ&bvm=bv.88198703,d.eXY&cad=rja

 

[Vico]

I am Catholic and was married in an Episcopalian Church. There was a Catholic Priest present as he was a good friend of my wife’s.

However, his name does not appear on the marriage license or as witness on anything.

Other than pictures of him at the wedding, is there something else I need to do or let our priest know so that our marriage is considered valid?

Also occurred to me that if you were received into full communion with the Catholic Church, already married, then a notation concerning the marriage is to be placed in the baptismal record in the notations column, but not recorded in the marriage register. The marriage register is used when the marriage is being validated or convalidated (simple or retroactive).

 

[FrDavid96]

I am Catholic and was married in an Episcopalian Church. There was a Catholic Priest present as he was a good friend of my wife’s.

However, his name does not appear on the marriage license or as witness on anything.

Other than pictures of him at the wedding, is there something else I need to do or let our priest know so that our marriage is considered valid?

Since the Catholic priest’s name is not on the marriage license, it’s safe to say that he did not officiate at the wedding.

At the time, you needed a dispensation from canonical form. If this happened, the marriage should be recorded in 4 places (some of these might overlap, for example if #1 is also #4):

1. Your parish of baptism.
2. The Catholic parish in which the marriage occurred. Remember that a Catholic parish is a geographic location, not a building. Therefore, even if it was in a non-Catholic building, it was still within a Catholic parish. That parish is obligated to keep a record of the marriage, even though the officiant was non-Catholic.
3. At the Chancery of whatever bishop granted the dispensation. This might be the diocese where the ceremony happened (more likely) or the diocese where you, as the Catholic party, resided at the time (a little less likely). Either is a possibility. This would be the most difficult to locate, but at the same time, the least likely by far to misplace the file or fail to record it.
4. The parish where you did your pre-marriage preparation. They should have a pre-marital investigation file. It would not (not likely) be in their sacramental record books, but in the marriage files.

You might find that #1, 2 or 4 has nothing more than your wife’s name and a protocol number, like 1984-0238 which would refer to the document granting the dispensation. If you find that, it would be easy for the Chancery to locate the dispensation in their own files. If the Chancery has those files recorded on computer they might be able to do an easy search.

Having said all that, the starting place would be the parish where you were baptised. Of all the possibilities, this would be the best place to start.

 

[Phemie]

Since the Catholic priest’s name is not on the marriage license, it’s safe to say that he did not officiate at the wedding.

At the time, you needed a dispensation from canonical form. If this happened, the marriage should be recorded in 4 places (some of these might overlap, for example if #1 is also #4):

1. Your parish of baptism.
2. The Catholic parish in which the marriage occurred. Remember that a Catholic parish is a geographic location, not a building. Therefore, even if it was in a non-Catholic building, it was still within a Catholic parish. That parish is obligated to keep a record of the marriage, even though the officiant was non-Catholic.
3. At the Chancery of whatever bishop granted the dispensation. This might be the diocese where the ceremony happened (more likely) or the diocese where you, as the Catholic party, resided at the time (a little less likely). Either is a possibility. This would be the most difficult to locate, but at the same time, the least likely by far to misplace the file or fail to record it.
4. The parish where you did your pre-marriage preparation. They should have a pre-marital investigation file. It would not (not likely) be in their sacramental record books, but in the marriage files.

You might find that #1, 2 or 4 has nothing more than your wife’s name and a protocol number, like 1984-0238 which would refer to the document granting the dispensation. If you find that, it would be easy for the Chancery to locate the dispensation in their own files. If the Chancery has those files recorded on computer they might be able to do an easy search.

Having said all that, the starting place would be the parish where you were baptised. Of all the possibilities, this would be the best place to start.

And all that is dependent on the OP having notified the parish in which the marriage occurred that it had in fact taken place since per Can. 1121 §3 that is the Catholic’s responsibility whenever a dispensation for lack of canonical form is granted.

 

[FAB]

I am Catholic and was married in an Episcopalian Church. There was a Catholic Priest present as he was a good friend of my wife’s.

However, his name does not appear on the marriage license or as witness on anything.

Other than pictures of him at the wedding, is there something else I need to do or let our priest know so that our marriage is considered valid?

For a priest or deacon to be the Catholic witness to the wedding he would have needed permission form his ordinary. It is possible that he did so. It depends on the wedding preparation that was done and documentation. If he was participating in the ceremony, but did not have his ordinary’s permission it is not valid.

Dcn Frank

 

[Brianmcg321]

Well I just spoke with my Priest and we have an appointment on Monday. He made it seem like a pretty simple matter.

We may need to have a convalidation ceremony which could be as simple as showing up at his office with a couple of witnesses. But all that will be discussed on Monday.

I will keep everyone posted to the outcome. Thanks for everyone’s help.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Well I just spoke with my Priest and we have an appointment on Monday. He made it seem like a pretty simple matter.

We may need to have a convalidation ceremony which could be as simple as showing up at his office with a couple of witnesses. But all that will be discussed on Monday.

I will keep everyone posted to the outcome. Thanks for everyone’s help.

Yes don’t worry you don’t have to spend thousands on a huge wedding ceremony again!

 

[FrDavid96]

And all that is dependent on the OP having notified the parish in which the marriage occurred that it had in fact taken place since per Can. 1121 §3 that is the Catholic’s responsibility whenever a dispensation for lack of canonical form is granted.

No. You’re misreading the canon.

§3. For a marriage contracted with a dispensation from canonical form, the local ordinary who granted the dispensation is to take care that the dispensation and celebration are inscribed in the marriage registers of both the curia and the proper parish of the Catholic party whose pastor conducted the investigation about the free status. The Catholic spouse is bound to notify as soon as possible the same ordinary and pastor about the marriage celebrated and also to indicate the place of the celebration and the public form observed.

It is the responsibility of the ordinary who granted the dispensation to notify the parish of baptism (who usually expects the parish priest to send such notices). Sacramental records are the responsibility of the clergy.

What you’re misreading is that the Catholic party must notify the ordinary & pastor as to the fact that the marriage took place. When such a dispensation has been granted, the couple are free to make their own arrangements for the ceremony (within limits, of course) and there will likely not be a Catholic cleric present to see it happen. That second part of the canon simply means that the couple must notify the pastor that they did in fact make use of the dispensation which was granted. The pastor then notifies the parish of baptism.

The only reason I’m posting this is so that other readers do not misunderstand and think that if they know of a convalidation (or had one themselves) that might think that they have to go back and send notices to the place of baptism. They need not do that.