Conversation with a Mormon

[LAMBOFGODGIRLY]

No he didn’t say that. He said that a prophet does not have to give the world prophecy to still be a prophet.

If the “prophet” of your church was coming to one of our towns, could I go andlisten to him speak?

 

[Stephen168]

Stephen,
Doctrine is “a body of principles or a system of beliefs”. The use of the word doctrine in religion implies that the people following the doctrine embrace the beliefs with all their heart, make covenants pertaining to those beliefs, and live by those covenants. The covenant making energizes their ability to live by the beliefs, and to strengthen one another as well as their children to be able to live by them also.

Prophecy is, according to Peter (2 Peter 1:21), “For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.” Peter also taught that “no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.” (v. 20)

This doesn’t really explain prophecy to my understanding. Where does doctrine come from?

 

[ParkerD]

If the “prophet” of your church was coming to one of our towns, could I go andlisten to him speak?

Lamb of God Girly,
Absolutely, yes. (If you are really interested in seeing and hearing President Monson and the Twelve Apostles, you can go to lds.org on April 4 and 5 at 10:00 am MDT or again at 2:00 pm MDT each of those days, and follow the links to a live broadcast.)

But if any of those men were to come to your town, you would be welcomed without hesitation to the meeting where they would speak.

 

[ParkerD]

This doesn’t really explain prophecy to my understanding. Where does doctrine come from?

Stephen,
True religious doctrine would need to come from a divine source in order for it to be considered “true” without hesitation or equivocation. So, the Bible provides doctrine that is true, Jesus gave doctrine that is true (some of it “new covenant” doctrine), His chosen apostles gave doctrine that is true, and a prophet called of God to be such will, when he receives revelation by the same source that Peter spoke of (the Holy Ghost), teach doctrine that is true. There has been and is a consistent pattern.

 

[Stephen168]

Stephen,
True religious doctrine would need to come from a divine source in order for it to be considered “true” without hesitation or equivocation. So, the Bible provides doctrine that is true, Jesus gave doctrine that is true (some of it “new covenant” doctrine), His chosen apostles gave doctrine that is true, and a prophet called of God to be such will, when he receives revelation by the same source that Peter spoke of (the Holy Ghost), teach doctrine that is true. There has been and is a consistent pattern.

But you said Mormon Prophets do not make doctrine. Only the Standard works are doctrine. So only the Bible and Christ can made doctrine?

 

[Stephen168]

Now, I wonder where the standard works came from?

 

[ParkerD]

But you said Mormon Prophets do not make doctrine. Only the Standard works are doctrine. So only the Bible and Christ can make doctrine?

Stephen,
I said revelation is the source of doctrine, and modern prophets and apostles receive revelation. When they unitedly feel there is additional understanding that is not available in the standard works, then they announce that additional teaching and I consider the new teaching doctrine, such as the Revelation on Priesthood and the Proclamation on the Family. Yet those items reinforce existing doctrine.

President Joseph F. Smith had a vision of the spirit world and its organization, which provided additional understanding. The words describing that vision were added to the Doctrine and Covenants (D & C 138) during my lifetime, and thus that became added doctrinal knowledge, even though we had a glimpse of the doctrine through what Peter had written when he was alive.

 

[Stephen168]

Stephen,
I said revelation is the source of doctrine, and modern prophets and apostles receive revelation. When they unitedly feel there is additional understanding that is not available in the standard works, then they announce that additional teaching and I consider the new teaching doctrine, such as the Revelation on Priesthood and the Proclamation on the Family. Yet those items reinforce existing doctrine.

President Joseph F. Smith had a vision of the spirit world and its organization, which provided additional understanding. The words describing that vision were added to the Doctrine and Covenants (D & C 138) during my lifetime, and thus that became added doctrinal knowledge, even though we had a glimpse of the doctrine through what Peter had written when he was alive.

Is the revelation on the priesthood in the standard works?

 

[PaulDupre]

Stephen,
I said revelation is the source of doctrine, and modern prophets and apostles receive revelation. When they unitedly feel there is additional understanding that is not available in the standard works, then they announce that additional teaching and I consider the new teaching doctrine, such as the Revelation on Priesthood and the Proclamation on the Family. Yet those items reinforce existing doctrine.

Is there something new in the Proclamation on the Family?

 

[dianaiad]

Thanks for the link

You do realize that the only person in this thread who brought up the pedophile priest scandal was…the Catholic, right?

No Mormon did.

Nor has a Mormon ‘cut down’ the bible.

…and the only reason any of us have brought up what the Catholics used to do is because the Catholics brought up what the Mormons ‘used to do,’ and then claimed that the Mormons were more murderous than the Catholics. When you do that, you can’t blame anybody for looking to see if you are right…and then posting the results.

I forget what the other thing that Paul accused us of was…

 

[ParkerD]

Is the revelation on the priesthood in the standard works?

Stephen,
Yes, as “Official Declaration 2” in the Doctrine and Covenants, as follows:

OFFICIAL DECLARATION—2
To Whom It May Concern:
On September 30, 1978, at the 148th Semiannual General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the following was presented by President N. Eldon Tanner, First Counselor in the First Presidency of the Church:
In early June of this year, the First Presidency announced that a revelation had been received by President Spencer W. Kimball extending priesthood and temple blessings to all worthy male members of the Church. President Kimball has asked that I advise the conference that after he had received this revelation, which came to him after extended meditation and prayer in the sacred rooms of the holy temple, he presented it to his counselors, who accepted it and approved it. It was then presented to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, who unanimously approved it, and was subsequently presented to all other General Authorities, who likewise approved it unanimously.
President Kimball has asked that I now read this letter:
June 8, 1978
To all general and local priesthood officers of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints throughout the world:
Dear Brethren:
As we have witnessed the expansion of the work of the Lord over the earth, we have been grateful that people of many nations have responded to the message of the restored gospel, and have joined the Church in ever-increasing numbers. This, in turn, has inspired us with a desire to extend to every worthy member of the Church all of the privileges and blessings which the gospel affords.
Aware of the promises made by the prophets and presidents of the Church who have preceded us that at some time, in God’s eternal plan, all of our brethren who are worthy may receive the priesthood, and witnessing the faithfulness of those from whom the priesthood has been withheld, we have pleaded long and earnestly in behalf of these, our faithful brethren, spending many hours in the Upper Room of the Temple supplicating the Lord for divine guidance.
He has heard our prayers, and by revelation has confirmed that the long-promised day has come when every faithful, worthy man in the Church may receive the holy priesthood, with power to exercise its divine authority, and enjoy with his loved ones every blessing that flows therefrom, including the blessings of the temple. Accordingly, all worthy male members of the Church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color. Priesthood leaders are instructed to follow the policy of carefully interviewing all candidates for ordination to either the Aaronic or the Melchizedek Priesthood to insure that they meet the established standards for worthiness.
We declare with soberness that the Lord has now made known his will for the blessing of all his children throughout the earth who will hearken to the voice of his authorized servants, and prepare themselves to receive every blessing of the gospel.
Sincerely yours,

Spencer W. Kimball
N. Eldon Tanner
Marion G. Romney

The First Presidency
Recognizing Spencer W. Kimball as the prophet, seer, and revelator, and president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it is proposed that we as a constituent assembly accept this revelation as the word and will of the Lord. All in favor please signify by raising your right hand. Any opposed by the same sign.
The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous in the affirmative.

 

[ParkerD]

Is there something new in the Proclamation on the Family?

Paul,
I would say that it clarifies existing doctrine. It lets there be no mistake that “fathers and mothers are to help one another as equal partners.” It lets there be no mistake that individuals who “abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God.”

 

[PaulDupre]

Paul,
I would say that it clarifies existing doctrine. It lets there be no mistake that “fathers and mothers are to help one another as equal partners.” It lets there be no mistake that individuals who “abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God.”

You needed a latter-day prophet to tell you that??

 

[PaulDupre]

You do realize that the only person in this thread who brought up the pedophile priest scandal was…the Catholic, right?

No Mormon did.

You haven’t been around here very long. Other Mormons like Zerinus, why me and BJColter spent a great deal of time posting about the priest abuse scandal. For a while there, why me brought it up in nearly every post.

Nor has a Mormon ‘cut down’ the bible.

Read back through ParkerD’s posts. His entire BoM defense consisted of casting doubt on the historicity of the bible prior to the time of David. The above-mentioned Mormons all cast doubt on the bible. It is the most familiar of all Mormon tactics. Casting dispersions on the bible is a hallmark of Mormonism. Would you like me to post a set of quotes from your prophets and apostles about how corrupt and untrustworthy the bible is?

 

[ParkerD]

You haven’t been around here very long. Other Mormons like Zerinus, why me and BJColter spent a great deal of time posting about the priest abuse scandal. For a while there, why me brought it up in nearly every post.

Read back through ParkerD’s posts. His entire BoM defense consisted of casting doubt on the historicity of the bible prior to the time of David. The above-mentioned Mormons all cast doubt on the bible. It is the most familiar of all Mormon tactics. Casting dispersions on the bible is a hallmark of Mormonism. Would you like me to post a set of quotes from your prophets and apostles about how corrupt and untrustworthy the bible is?

Paul,
You must have me mixed up with someone else. I never “cast doubt on the historicity of the bible”, period. Nonsense. We use the Bible more literally than any other religion, yours included. I have said all along that I love the Bible. I don’t consider it “untrustworthy” in any sense at all.

 

[ParkerD]

You needed a latter-day prophet to tell you that??

Heavens, no–but I think it was very worthwhile to have that clearly reiterated in today’s world. Abuse is one of the abhorrent illnesses of our time. It makes me sick to think that anyone could do such things. Any efforts to rid the world of this calamity (lawfully, of course) are worthwhile, in my book.

 

[Jerusha]

I really appreciate your last comment, Parker. Perhaps you might better spend your time taking a look at the abuses occurring within your church. That includes non-members. We are human, too. And deserving of respect as such.

 

[zaffiroborant]

I really appreciate your last comment, Parker. Perhaps you might better spend your time taking a look at the abuses occurring within your church. That includes non-members. We are human, too. And deserving of respect as such.

I don’t think Parker was referring the the Church but to his quoting of the LDS family proclamation. I’ve read the proclamation and it strikes me as more lecturing than inspiring, I like JP’s letter to families much better

 

[Stephen168]

Stephen,
I said revelation is the source of doctrine, and modern prophets and apostles receive revelation. When they unitedly feel there is additional understanding that is not available in the standard works, then they announce that additional teaching and I consider the new teaching doctrine, such as the Revelation on Priesthood and the Proclamation on the Family. Yet those items reinforce existing doctrine.

Is everything in the standard works doctrine?

 

[Jerusha]

LOL Just an intentional misunderstanding. There is a method to my madness.