Conversation with an LDS missionary

[JD27076]

Now, I know this is false beyond all comprehension, but he said. Catholics believe unbaptized babies go to hell. And also said, **Catholics also encourage illiteracy. **

I believe that is why the LDS church is getting all these converts, spreading lies. Making their lie seem like truth by spreading other lies and hate.

He made some good points about these two, but I know it is false. I would like your opinions please. Thank you.

 

[zz912]

Open the Catechism and show him he’s patently wrong. Paragraph 1261 and 131-133 should do trick.

 

[Allegra]

I think it’s rather obvious that anyone who is evangelizing for the LDS will have to do so with untruths. If they were telling the truth, then they’d be evangelizing for the Christianity!

 

[Monica4316]

The Church is responsible for university education and the scientific method in the West… doesn’t seem like it’s against literacy I think they’re referring to the time in the middle ages when most people weren’t literate and so couldn’t read the Bible but this wasn’t the Church’s fault.

As for unbaptized babies going to hell, this is not believed, - it’s believed that either they go to Limbo (which is not dogma, it’s a theological opinion), or they go to Heaven.

God bless

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Now, I know this is false beyond all comprehension, but he said. Catholics believe unbaptized babies go to hell. And also said, **Catholics also encourage illiteracy. **

I believe that is why the LDS church is getting all these converts, spreading lies. Making their lie seem like truth by spreading other lies and hate.

He made some good points about these two, but I know it is false. I would like your opinions please. Thank you.

LDS church is funny beyond comprehension. One must not laugh at religion but I cannot avoir it. Anyhow, are they a religion?

 

[NewSeeker]

I was raised LDS and served a mission. The vast majority of LDS missionaries are teenagers from the American West, ill-prepared with basic knowledge about any other religions besides their own. What most of them do know about Catholicism is based on hearsay and rumor, including a strong anti-Catholic bent that has only been de-emphasized by church leaders in the past 20 years or so. IMO, the best approach is to hand them a copy of the Catechism when they invite you to read the Book of Mormon. Tell them you’ll read the BoM if they promise to read the Catechism. They aren’t permitted by mission rules to do so (at least they were when I was a missionary), so most will excuse themselves politely and that will be that. One or two might actually take you up on your offer. That can only be a good thing.

 

[DaveBj]

I have had encounters with LDS (careful how I type that . . .) missionaries, but only rarely. I get irked right off the bat (altho I’ve never said anything) that here’s someone who’s less than 1/3 my age, and he’s got a name tag that identifies himself as “Elder.” NOT!!!

What I do is to explain how in the Bible names have meanings, and then I list the three named angels and what their names mean. Then I say that I will listen to what they have to say if they can show me from an authoritative lexicon the language that the name “Moroni” comes from, and what it means. So far that has always been the end of the conversation.

Oh, and if they hit me with the “burning in the bosom” line, I offer them some Gaviscon.

 

[Cowboy_Pete]

Now, I know this is false beyond all comprehension, but he said. Catholics believe unbaptized babies go to hell. And also said, **Catholics also encourage illiteracy. **

Sad to say, some LDS persons are as ignorant about Catholicism as some Catholics on the “non-Catholic religions” sub-forum are about the LDS church. But it would be equally ignorant for you to impute that ignorance to the LDS church in general.

When someone on this site posted links to “The Godmakers” (an anti-LDS film which the Jewish Anti-Defamation League has compared to “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”) I did not impute that ignorance to the Catholic church.

I believe that is why the LDS church is getting all these converts, spreading lies.

Aren’t you just a little embarrassed, making such a grotesque generalization from one single anecdote?

Did you find what that LDS missionary said persuasive? Being told what your church teaches, in contradiction to what you’ve been told all your life? Having the historical position of a few people in your church represented as the current position of your whole church? I don’t find it persuasive either.

The missionary was evidently unaware of the 1993 changes to your catechism. But the LDS church is certainly aware of those changes, since that very year, 1993, is when the LDS church began to announce to the general membership of the LDS church, in each annual General Conference, that a portion of our Tithe money was being entrusted to Catholic Charities.

Our leaders speak kindly of your church, and your Pope has spoken kindly of ours. Despite that a few of both of our respective churches keep going off the reservation, spewing hate and ignorance.

 

[Cowboy_Pete]

Tet me the Elder’s name and the location where this occurred, and I’ll give you the contact information for his specific mission. This sort of ignorance needs to be stamped out, and I bet the elder will find his heels cooled with an office job moving papers around.

If you run into him again, ask him why, if the Catholic Church “encourages illiteracy,” why does the LDS church give a portion of its tithes to Catholic Charities? If he acts as if he doesn’t know it, ask him if he sleeps through General Conference.

I was raised LDS and served a mission. The vast majority of LDS missionaries are teenagers from the American West, ill-prepared with basic knowledge about any other religions besides their own. What most of them do know about Catholicism is based on hearsay and rumor, including a strong anti-Catholic bent that has only been de-emphasized by church leaders in the past 20 years or so.

You’ve got the timing right – the biggest change was in 1993. But you understate the matter when you say “de-emphasized” – the anti-Catholic stuff has been completely jettisoned. If I thought any of you were actually listening, I could link you to internal discussions where a significant LDS theologian referred to our earlier preconceptions of Catholicism as unfair, inaccurate, and outright “bigoted.”

 

[Jesus_123]

**+ I posted this on another thread . . . thought it might help here . . . **

• … I was raised as a child in the heart of “Mormon” country here in the United States … Though I knew many Mormons as friends in school and our neighborhood . . . their belief system is known to Catholics and Protestants alike essentially as a CULT . . . and it is an immensely large one . . . and their understandings, definitions and usage of the same religious and scriptural words are RADICALLY different . . .

Definition:

 

[Cowboy_Pete]

**+ I posted this on another thread . . . thought it might help here . . . **
… When answering the charge of whether the Mormons worship a different Jesus than the other Christian denominations, the former head of the Mormon church, Gordon B. Hinckley, stated that THEY DID [worship a different Jesus],

Thank you for illustrating that it’s not just isolated mormon missionaries that spread falsehoods.

Gordon B Hinckley never “stated” that we worship a “different Jesus.”

That’s a grotesque falsehood.

 

[Hello_All]

Few years back when JP2 passed away, I read a news article ,wherein The LDS leadership in UTAH,mentioned that it was UNFORTUNATE that the late JOHN PAUL 2 was not a Mormon,but they will pray for his soul.
Not to hijack the thread,but few years ago,as well,the LDS leadership in the PhIippines,started sending Mormon volunteers to a Catholic run ,Filipino version of Habitat for Humanity.Later on it was discovered that their motive was not to assist in building homes,but to proselytize the Catholic volunteers and the benificiaries of the project.This has made headlines and rift among the Catholic leaders,as one of them was summoned to the LDS office in that country,possibly for proselytization,as well.Even the Vatican intervened about this rift,as this lay organization was and still is very popular for their charitable works.So,if the LDS here in the States is giving part of its donation to Catholic charities,I just hope they have no ill motive,like what they did in the Philippines.

 

[Cowboy_Pete]

My wife was in charge of a local Habitat for Humanity and she never, ever proselytized anyone there.

The LDS leadership in UTAH,mentioned that it was UNFORTUNATE that the late JOHN PAUL 2 was not a Mormon,but they will pray for his soul.

I don’t believe that for one second. Mormons don’t pray for the souls of the dead, let alone make sanctimonious announcements that we are going to do so. We do temple work for the dead. That’s our thing.

What a real mormon might say is, JP2 was such a good man, it’s a pity that he never got married. Because in LDS views, not getting married is a more of an obstacle than failing to get baptized in mortality. Nevertheless, no lds “leader” higher than a 15 year old teacher’s quorum president would say something so impolitic, let alone to the press.

Regardless of marriage or baptism status, I doubt any adult LDS leader thinks that Pope John Paul is not in heaven. What newspapers do you read? National Enquirer?

 

[Pepband_Mom]

Peter:
how are you??? I hope you are doing well… I have been remembering you in my prayers.

Actually, I heard a CD by a former LDS Idaho missionary that left a few days before the end of his mission. To make a long story short, he graduated with a PHD, Summa Cum Laude from a Pontifical College in Rome, either the Gregorian or the Angelicum and teaches in Colorado.

On this CD, he discusses his journey and discusses the differences in terms that both Churches use ex. God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, sacrament/eucharist, etc.

He did quote Gordon B. Hinkley, a speech when he was traveling through Switzerland and France in ‘Crown of gospel is upon our heads’ June 20, 1998 - here’s a short part of his comments

 "In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ.  No, I don't.  The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.  For the Christ of who I speak has been revealed in this Dispensation of the Fulness of Times... "

Oddly enough, I just printed this up yesterday and thought you might like to read it

Take Good Care, Peter
Pepband Mom

 

[Tony888]

Now, I know this is false beyond all comprehension, but he said. Catholics believe unbaptized babies go to hell. And also said, **Catholics also encourage illiteracy. **

I believe that is why the LDS church is getting all these converts, spreading lies. Making their lie seem like truth by spreading other lies and hate.

He made some good points about these two, but I know it is false. I would like your opinions please. Thank you.

Yes they were wrong and hopefully you educated them.

However, their statement has roots in fact. It was only recently that the Pope clarifited that unbaptized children were likely to go to heaven instead of limbo. I know I was taught in Catholic school that you had to be baptized to get into heaven. Since the concept of Limbo is not broadly taught outisde the RCC, not getting into heaven incorrectly leads one to expect hell.

VATICAN CITY (AP) — Pope Benedict XVI has reversed centuries of traditional Roman Catholic teaching on limbo, approving a Vatican report released Friday that says there were “serious” grounds to hope that children who die without being baptized can go to heaven.

Theologians said the move was highly significant — both for what it says about Benedict’s willingness to buck a long-standing tenet of Catholic belief and for what it means theologically about the Church’s views on heaven, hell and original sin — the sin that the faithful believe all children are born with.

Although Catholics have long believed that children who die without being baptized are with original sin and thus excluded from heaven, the Church has no formal doctrine on the matter. Theologians, however, have long taught that such children enjoy an eternal state of perfect natural happiness, a state commonly called limbo, but without being in communion with God.
usatoday.com/news/religion/2007-04-20-popelimbo_N.htm

 

[RebeccaJ]

Now, I know this is false beyond all comprehension, but he said. Catholics believe unbaptized babies go to hell. And also said, **Catholics also encourage illiteracy. **

I believe that is why the LDS church is getting all these converts, spreading lies. Making their lie seem like truth by spreading other lies and hate.

He made some good points about these two, but I know it is false. I would like your opinions please. Thank you.

I recommend “The Hope of Salvation For Infants Who Die Without Being Baptized”.

Mormon “scripture” specifically sites infant baptism as an “evil abomination”, so, it’s an approach Mormons will use on Catholics they are hoping to convert. It’s just basic anti-Catholic stuff that originates with the 17th century "reformation, which Mormonism uses in its doctrines. There’s a good tract from here at catholic com that addresses this

catholic.com/tracts/infant-baptism

It’s aimed a Fundamental Christians, but the rebuttal is Catholic.

As for the illiteracy bit that’s just ignorance speaking.

 

[Tony888]

Now, I know this is false beyond all comprehension, but he said. Catholics believe unbaptized babies go to hell. And also said, **Catholics also encourage illiteracy. **

I believe that is why the LDS church is getting all these converts, spreading lies. Making their lie seem like truth by spreading other lies and hate.

He made some good points about these two, but I know it is false. I would like your opinions please. Thank you.

JD, If willing, I’d suggest you give a call to the local ward a call and complain. The missionaries should not be spreading half truths (unbaptized babies) and slander (illiteracy).

 

[TheExorcist]

JD, If willing, I’d suggest you give a call to the local ward a call and complain. The missionaries should not be spreading half truths (unbaptized babies) and slander (illiteracy).

The local wards and stakes have ZERO control over missionaries. I suggest they get in touch with the mission office. I seriously doubt it will help though. The bottom line is missionaries will do whatever needs to be done to turn people away from their current church and toward the LDS church. This is the kind of thing that happens when you have 20 and 21 year olds (district and zone leaders) instructing 19 year olds on how to teach.

Tet me the Elder’s name and the location where this occurred, and I’ll give you the contact information for his specific mission. This sort of ignorance needs to be stamped out, and I bet the elder will find his heels cooled with an office job moving papers around.

I seriously doubt that will happen either. Missionaries in the field are too precious to disciple like that. It’s not a violation of mission rules what they have done. Again, those missionaries will do almost anything to win converts.

 

[Tony888]

TheExorcist,
Stories like this are so rare because **it is not tolerated. **
The missionaries are guests of the local ward, even if they report to a mission president.

All one needs do is shine some light on their false statements. I expect they honestly believe what they are saying, which is why missionaries are expected to talk about LDS theology and not other faiths where they have not been trained.

 

[TexanKnight]

I, too, served a Mission. I would have taught the same thing, because that is what I was taught about the Catholic Church as a Mormon.

But, to be fair, I have heard Catholic leaders say some pretty incredible things about the LDS Church.

I had dinner once, at a Conference, and sat at a table with Tim Staples. I told him I was a convert and when he found out I was ex-LDS, he proceeded to discuss several issues about the LDS Church history that simply were not true.

In both cases, it is not anyone lying, it is simply being misinformed.