Conversation with atheist

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So you’re saying that Adam and Eve had “superior knowledge” of good and the consequences of evil? Why weren’t they supposed to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil again?
You don’t remember why???

Genesis 2 : 17 " when you eat of the tree you will surely die."

God wasn’t playing around…He gave them everything, didn’t lie to them & only asked one thing of them. Leave that tree alone…BUT with all their preternatural gifts, & intelligence, they still couldn’t resist temptation. 😦
 
Originally Posted by truetofaith
*You can’t compare parents telling a child not to smoke with God telling Adam & Eve not to eat of the forbidden fruit!
Adam & Eve were the parents of the future human race & how they obeyed God was to be passed on to all humanity.
They had superior knowledge & knew the consequences of their actions. Satan convinced them to disobey*. IT’S NOT GOD’S FAULT!!
So why would God punish Adam and Eve and the entire human race, if it were Satan’s fault?
 
So why would God punish Adam and Eve and the entire human race, if it were Satan’s fault?
I didn’t say it was Satan’s fault…they should have known better than to listen to a snake! :eek:

Adam & Eve sounded like 2 stupid kids…“he made me do it!” .:crying:

They knew what they did would affect humanity.
 
You don’t remember why???

Genesis 2 : 17 " when you eat of the tree you will surely die."

God wasn’t playing around…He gave them everything, didn’t lie to them & only asked one thing of them. Leave that tree alone…BUT with all their preternatural gifts, & intelligence, they still couldn’t resist temptation. 😦
So what you’re telling me is that all they knew about the tree was “we will die if we eat it.” How did they reason from that information to “if we disobey God, He will punish our children forever?”
They knew what they did would affect humanity.
How did they know it? It wasn’t written in the bible. You seem to just be assuming this because it is convenient for you.
 
So what you’re telling me is that all they knew about the tree was “we will die if we eat it.” How did they reason from that information to “if we disobey God, He will punish our children forever?”

How did they know it? It wasn’t written in the bible. You seem to just be assuming this because it is convenient for you.
If they believed God & did die there would be no children to make humanity…so they had to think they were the pair that would start the human race…but I’m sure this conversation could go on forever…so…

It’s time to quit ! 👍
 
That seems like a middle school breakdown of the argument. When people are unable to resolve the dilemma, the conclusion I see made most often is that God cannot be omnipotent, omniscient, and omni-benevolent all at once. That conclusion implies that “God as conceived by Christianity” does not exist, but it doesn’t rule out the possibility of some other God (e.g. a non-benevolent one) existing.It is a real problem, and you acknowledge this when you attempt to give a response, approximately: “We can’t completely understand God, if we were able to completely understand God we would understand how there is no contradiction between his omniscience, omnipotence, and benevolence.”

What is the height of foolishness is to simply stick your fingers in your ears and say “this isn’t a true -]scotsman/-] problem with my beliefs, so I don’t have to respond to it.” Simply calling it a “false dilemma” doesn’t make it so.

Also by accusing people of “imposing” a dilemma, you are trying to dodge the question. They are not “imposing” anything, they are pointing out an apparent problem with a set of beliefs. You could argue (not assert) that they are somehow misrepresenting those beliefs, but you can’t just say “well, they came up with this argument all on their own so I shouldn’t have to listen to it!”
Well said. I personally don’t believe that God is going to send someone to hell, just because they couldn’t solve the problem of evil and suffering to their mental satisfaction and thus couldn’t believe in the God of Christianity. I believe that it’s possible that they may get saved through Jesus, even if they don’t consciously believe in Him.
 
Hi Pallas. I’m sorry for not getting back to you, earlier. Spending a lot of time on forums is a struggle for me, so I’m trying to moderate it.
But I have problems with your phrase of “detriment to the well-being of yourself”. Everyone has dominion over one’s own existence and whatever you do to your own body is no one else’s business. Of course here we run into a problem. Since we are both individuals and social beings, there needs to be a balancing act between the two aspects and results of any given action. But actions that do not cause harm to others cannot be considered “evil”.
I’ll just say that there are theological reasons I disagree with that, and stop there. I don’t want to get into that debate.
Moreover, an action that causes unintended harm to others is not “evil”. As I tried to say before, the term “evil” is a very strictly defined category, not to be used willy-nilly. It requires “ill intent”.
I agree. It is why we have a distinction between second-degree manslaughter and first-degree murder. It is also part of the reason why the Catholic Church has a distinction between mortal and venial sin.
I don’t know what you mean by “free from corruption”. Would you explain?
Yes, I am free, for example, to read a book if I want to, but if it causes me to neglect taking care of my sick brother, then it is evil.
A few more examples: parting your hair on the right or on the left is not a moral choice. Choosing to walk to work or taking your bicycle is not a moral choice either. Buying a Big Mac and not a Whopper is indifferent morally. Drinking a beer or a wine at dinner is a neutral choice. I think you stretched the “moral choice” a little too far in your analysis. Please let me know what makes a choice “moral” in your vocabulary.
I believe that all those choices are morally good for the simple reason that no harm is done. It’s just that in those cases, neither choices are morally better than the alternative. That said, I’m starting to suspect that that is more of a semantic difference than anything else. I won’t make up my own definition of “moral,” so I’ll use the Dictionary:

Moral: “of, relating to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical”

Yet the way I see it, a conscious feeling of “right conduct” does not have to be explicitly called into question in order for an action to be “morally good.” One can make a morally good choice without consciously realizing it, even if they are so trivial that they are taken for granted (ex: you do no harm to others by choosing to ride your bike to work over driving to work.) That said, I understand the way you see it and how you would use the dictionary’s definition against me, so let’s just say that we have our different opinions and stop there. I don’t want to debate my opinion any further, for fear of spending too much of my time on this forum. You are free to take this as a win, if you want to.
 
Hi Pallas. I’m sorry for not getting back to you, earlier. Spending a lot of time on forums is a struggle for me, so I’m trying to moderate it.
That is quite all right. 🙂
I’ll just say that there are theological reasons I disagree with that, and stop there. I don’t want to get into that debate.
I respect that.
Yes, I am free, for example, to read a book if I want to, but if it causes me to neglect taking care of my sick brother, then it is evil.
I see. You say that neglecting your sick brother is what is “evil”. Does not matter, why you neglect him? Maybe if you save the life of 10 other ones, then it would not be “evil”? But of course, in my example it was assumed implicitly that “reading a book”, or “watching a movie” in and of themselves are morally neutral actions.
I believe that all those choices are morally good for the simple reason that no harm is done. It’s just that in those cases, neither choices are morally better than the alternative. That said, I’m starting to suspect that that is more of a semantic difference than anything else.
Seems like it. 🙂 I like to differentiate between “opposite” and “negation”, for the sake of clarity. The opposite of “good” is “bad”, the negation is “not good”. The opposite of “white” is “black”, the negation is “not white” (which could be any color).
Yet the way I see it, a conscious feeling of “right conduct” does not have to be explicitly called into question in order for an action to be “morally good.” One can make a morally good choice without consciously realizing it, even if they are so trivial that they are taken for granted (ex: you do no harm to others by choosing to ride your bike to work over driving to work.) That said, I understand the way you see it and how you would use the dictionary’s definition against me, so let’s just say that we have our different opinions and stop there. I don’t want to debate my opinion any further, for fear of spending too much of my time on this forum. You are free to take this as a win, if you want to.
Yes, we can always agree to leave it at that. “Win”? Who cares about winning? I only care about having a pleasant discussion, and we had that. Thanks, and see you around! It is very nice to talk to you.
 
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