"Conversing with the child within"?

[Gertabelle]

No, I am not talking about families talking to their unborn babies

I am taking an education course called “Creative Journaling” - was hoping to find new ways to get my students to reflect on our work in writing. But what the course should be called is “Creative Navel Gazing” or “The World Really Should Be All About Me So Let’s Have 30 Projects All About ME!” Trying to complete this course in a few weeks is like trying to live on a diet of nothing but junk food for three weeks!

I regret having ever signed up for this course, but the money’s been paid, and I need the credits ASAP.

So, here’s my question:

For one of my final journal entries, I have to find a photo of myself as a child and “interview the person in the picture… Listen for the answer [to these questions] by really looking at the child [the picture of **myself] and intuiting what you hear.”

Aside from being really, really dumb, something about this assignment really bothers me on a more spiritual level. I mean, it seems like I’m trying to have a conversation with an inanimate object, or trying to time travel to dialogue with myself as a child. Years ago I was heavily involved with New Age pseudo-spirituality – and this just sounds a little too much like some meditations we used to do.

Personally, I am very down-to-earth (as most single parents have to be) as well as very prayerful (LOTH, rosary, contemplative prayer…). For the sake of practicality, I can easily make something up to complete this; but it’s not for lack of depth that I dislike this assignment. Maybe the me in the picture could point out that this is a college course, not a therapy session?

I could use some advice from outside my own head. If you would share your opinion of this, especially if you could shed some spiritual light on it for me, I would be greatly appreciative.

God bless you!

Gertie

 

[Gertabelle]

Oh great, just looked ahead to the next assignment – now I get to converse with the dead! At least on this one I’m clear the Catholic Church does not approve!

From the course workbook:

“Choose a photograph of someone with whom you’d like to have a conversation. Study the picture. What do you want to know that this person might tell you?.. The last time I did this exercise, I created a conversation with my great-grandfather… I asked him what he thought about the dynamics of our famly. I got some interesting perspectives!”

I know there could be a fine line between writing my own ideas of what, for example, my grandma might have said about something, and actually trying to communicate with her spirit. But again, given my past work with the occult, why walk that very dangerous line with my soul?

Of course, given the hour, this thread is pretty much a conversation with myself right now anyway

Gotta get to bed :yawn:

God bless you.

Gertie

 

[Rudy_Baga]

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong or foolish about the exercise. Anything you do that will help you to understand yourself and what got you to this point in your life and path will not be wasted effort. There are so many ways this can turn useful, from remembering old values or goals to releasing past memories or hurts. Sorting through the junk in the closet we often find things that need to be discarded in order to make room for something new and more valuable. This is probably the goal of the course, first to create a mental breath of fresh air and clearing of the mind. And secondly to help you get in touch with who your really are. How can you do anything really creative if you don’t know where to look within for inspiration? My big question is why would you find it so hard to integrate you past with who you presently are and bring both to the assignment. Who you were is as much you as who you are.

Down to earth is a good place to be, but life is always changing, so you need to remember how to fly sometimes. Otherwise, the box gets smaller and the rut gets deeper.

 

[jeannetherese]

You have a lot of control over which picture you choose. you get to choose the questions and you get to choose the answers… You could even use the project to catechise your teacher. how did you pray at that age. What was especially important in your prayers. why? Maybe you will help your prof find his/her way to Our Lord.
With the second paper, you could look at it as an exercise in writing about history. Choose your person, think about what s/he went through back i the day, and ask questions about conditions. How did you g et water for the garden,? What did a typical day look like? How much time and energy did you have to devote to the schooling of your children?
I think that you will find a way to own the requirements without succumbing to any pressure you feel to make the tasks into new-age oriented pieces.

 

[mini_me640]

I fail to see the problem. They arent asking you to channel the dead, they’re asking you to use your own memories and imagination to create a fictional dialogue. Journaling is about introspection so I don’t really understand your surprise and dismay about the assignments being self-focused. I think you’re creating problems where they don’t really exist.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I like how the previous poster put it: it is a fictional dialogue. You can let your imagination run wild. Perhaps your new age past is causing you to see these assignments as something sinister. They don’t have to be. Pray before you start thinking about it and writing. Who knows, maybe something useful and interesting will come out of it. I have conversations with my past selves all the time That provides a narrative of my life and helps me see the bigger picture.

 

[Gertabelle]

Thank you all so much! I am always so grateful for the wisdom of the people on these forums!

I think the reason I am so peevish at this point is that it is quite overwhelming to spend da after day reflecting on me, myself, and I. Draw yourself and make comments… Do a collage that represents you and make comments… List your favorite objects and comment and what they say about you… Draw representations of body parts (hands, head, shoulders, etc.) and look for the hidden meaning in your relationship to them… Me, me, me…

I do have a journal, and I used to enjoy writing in it a couple times a week, just to get thoughts out of my head so I could pray and concentrate on the needs of the day.

And I did the whole therapy thing in my 20s for years! And then I did many, many courses with Landmark Education in my 30s, completing the past and creating a powerful future – I still use that “technology” to clear the past out of my future. And I use the sacraments of the Church as well. And did I mention that I also spent two years the silence and prayer of a Benedictine monastery?

My point is that I am not some shallow person who likes to skim the surface and avoid any depth. Quite the opposite actually. It is not from fear of depth or lack of self-knowledge that this coursework makes me peevish.

I see your point however that I can get through these assignments a bit more my own way. There are prescribed questions, but I think I can find a way to work with them. I’m taking the work with me to the Adoration Chapel after mass today to try to complete this course and out it behind me.

What really frustrates me is that I was so hoping to find some excellent ways to do some quick power reflections with me students as we take on creating a school wide CD this year - and this course has offered me nothing I can use in my classroom where I see my students 40 minutes every third day. Very frustrating…

Rant over
Thanks again!

 

[Rudy_Baga]

Thank you all so much! I am always so grateful for the wisdom of the people on these forums!

I think the reason I am so peevish at this point is that it is quite overwhelming to spend da after day reflecting on me, myself, and I. Draw yourself and make comments… Do a collage that represents you and make comments… List your favorite objects and comment and what they say about you… Draw representations of body parts (hands, head, shoulders, etc.) and look for the hidden meaning in your relationship to them… Me, me, me…

The point to remember here is that if you have trouble writing about yourself, with whom you are most intimate, how can you move outside of yourself and write about anything else. At its heart, all writing is infused with, and becomes a part of, who you are.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

My point is that I am not some shallow person who likes to skim the surface and avoid any depth. Quite the opposite actually. It is not from fear of depth or lack of self-knowledge that this coursework makes me peevish.

Can you summarize what does make you peevish about the coursework? I know you have tried, but a summary might help us understand further.

In particular, I’m having trouble grasping the “me, me, me” aspect, for a couple different reasons.

I take it that something like, “creative journaling” would be me focused, I’m not quite sure why it wouldn’t. In fact, whether it’s creative journaling or something completely different such as sports blogging, each writer speaks with her/his own voice. It is an inwardly focused pursuit - writing draws out what is within. No writer can speak without revealing a piece of herself/himself, in style or in substance. Of course, there is nothing more “me-me-me” than reflections. I assume you are aware of this and, as such, I suspect that your intended meaning is different than my interpretation of your intended meaning.

I seek to understand this: how can one write a reflection that is not “me-me-me.” The “me” must always be actively involved, because someone has to be doing the reflection.

Even if you were reflecting on, say, The Catcher in the Rye, you are still the one doing the reflecting and as such the work must inevitably revolve around you. Even if one were to reflect upon a novel from the viewpoint of an abstract Platonic concept, it would still be you reflecting upon the nature of an abstract Platonic concept reflecting upon a novel.

Wooooh, that made my head hurt. Anyway, you get the point - how could this not be a “me” pursuit and why does it matter even if it is?

What really frustrates me is that I was so hoping to find some excellent ways to do some quick power reflections with me students as we take on creating a school wide CD this year - and this course has offered me nothing I can use in my classroom where I see my students 40 minutes every third day. Very frustrating…

Rant over
Thanks again!

What aspect of these reflections makes them unusable?

 

[Do_Good_Then_Go]

Oh great, just looked ahead to the next assignment – now I get to converse with the dead! At least on this one I’m clear the Catholic Church does not approve!

From the course workbook:

I know there could be a fine line between writing my own ideas of what, for example, my grandma might have said about something, and actually trying to communicate with her spirit. But again, given my past work with the occult, why walk that very dangerous line with my soul?

Of course, given the hour, this thread is pretty much a conversation with myself right now anyway

Gotta get to bed :yawn:

God bless you.

Gertie

I’m confused too - why do think the things you’re being asked to do are inappropriate or selfish or too ‘me me me’?

I don’t think imagining a conversation with someone else (even if that person is now dead) is wrong or dangerous. I think it’s just a way of getting you to think about things from someone else’s perspective isn’t it? I often wonder what my grandmother (who died when my now-grown children were very young) would think about this or that and what advice she might give me if she was still alive.

Can you explain a bit more as all the exercises you’ve mentioned seem okay to me and, as others have said, anything creative comes from what is within. I actually think that we could all do with a bit MORE self-reflection… and I’m including myself in that.

Just as an example - the one about listing your favourite objects and commenting on what they say about you - I think that’s a great exercise for anyone to do and wouldn’t something like that be a good idea for your students?

 

[mini_me640]

OP,

Would you mind telling us what kind of exercises you expected from the class?

 

[jmcrae]

What really frustrates me is that I was so hoping to find some excellent ways to do some quick power reflections with me students as we take on creating a school wide CD this year - and this course has offered me nothing I can use in my classroom where I see my students 40 minutes every third day. Very frustrating…

Rant over
Thanks again!

Actually, these kind of creative exercises are very good for developing empathy, which is essential when dealing with the very young. You can look with clear eyes at your own past, which will give you a lot of insight into what’s going on in the lives of your students. ("Plus ça change … " etc.)

I had the hardest time getting along with teenage girls, until I had a very honest talk with my imaginary 15 year old self one time. I cleared away a lot of "should"s that were in the way of my being able to communicate with them effectively. Now, I can’t imagine not liking teenage girls - they’re awesome and fun! (So are teenage boys.)

 

[EasterJoy]

OK, you don’t have a choice. Look for recipes that use lemons. It turns out that this is a versatile fruit, if the cook uses some skill with it.

You’re a practical person, so imagine the exercise in a practical way. Look at it as an exercise in which someone with your previous perspectives and perceptions talks to someone with your current perspectives and perceptions. The same with the “conversation with the dead.”

Honestly, they don’t want you to get out a Ouija board. They want you to use your imagination to help you step out of your habitual perspective, to challenge it by purposefully putting yourself into a different point of view. If you do it correctly, which is to say if you ask yourself how other people might challenge your unexamined biases, the exercise could make you less self-centered, not more.

By bias, I mean systemic error that occurs according to a pattern; if the error was random, that would be a lack of precision, not a bias. But hey, maybe your thinking is more imprecise than biased, and “the other character” can challenge you to be more clear in how you express yourself.

The advantage of the exercises that you’re doing is that you can examine your own thinking according to the perspective of someone else with their own set of biases. In your imagined “conversation”, the two sets of biases might challenge each other, or one person might use the conversation to bring the other to see his or her own biases. Think the Socratic dialogues…not navel-gazing, are they? Or write a devil’s advocate’s part. That kind of thing.

For instance, are there people you currently trust based on exterior signs independent of a past history of trustworthiness in the particular person you are choosing to trust? Are there people or sources of authority that you have learned to trust that you would not have trusted when you were younger? Things you trusted then that you would believe it naive to trust now?

Were I you taking this course, I would be considering what aspects of the various exercises I might put to good use in my own teaching. For instance, instead of making a suggestion that might literally be taken as an invitation to have contact with the dead, I might instead suggest that you write a play or a scene of a play in which you are one of the characters and someone famous is the other character. It would force the student to consider both how they seem to others in an exterior sense as well as how other people think and talk differently than they do.

 

[Gertabelle]

The point to remember here is that if you have trouble writing about yourself, with whom you are most intimate, how can you move outside of yourself and write about anything else. At its heart, all writing is infused with, and becomes a part of, who you are.

I have no trouble writing about myself. My senior project as a music major (Bachelor of Music in Voice Theater) was a one-woman play with some original music – and it was autobiographical. By the time the play was ready for performance I had literally a hundred pages of completed text, some used in the performance, and some set aside because the play would just have been waaaaay too long

So no, I have no problem writing about me. And I’ve been keeping a journal since I was 12 – that’s 32 years of journaling. (How did I get so old that I’ve been doing anything for 32 years!?)

Your point is well taken, however, about need for the knowledge of self. I think it was St. Teresa of Avila who said we must know God and know ourselves. Amazing wisdom that! Not knowing oneself can lead to confusion and the misery that comes from a lifetime of mistakes – and always wondering what’s going on and how come I feel so powerless?

Knowledge of self, however, from a Christian perspective, should always be directed at deepening our knowledge of (that is, our relationship with) God. Knowledge of self without knowledge of God is narcissism and egocentrism, perhaps even scrupulosity.

God bless you, and thank you for being in this discussion!

Gertie

 

[Gertabelle]

Can you summarize what does make you peevish about the coursework? I know you have tried, but a summary might help us understand further.

In particular, I’m having trouble grasping the “me, me, me” aspect, for a couple different reasons.

I take it that something like, “creative journaling” would be me focused, I’m not quite sure why it wouldn’t. In fact, whether it’s creative journaling or something completely different such as sports blogging, each writer speaks with her/his own voice. It is an inwardly focused pursuit - writing draws out what is within. No writer can speak without revealing a piece of herself/himself, in style or in substance. Of course, there is nothing more “me-me-me” than reflections. I assume you are aware of this and, as such, I suspect that your intended meaning is different than my interpretation of your intended meaning.

I seek to understand this: how can one write a reflection that is not “me-me-me.” The “me” must always be actively involved, because someone has to be doing the reflection.

Even if you were reflecting on, say, The Catcher in the Rye, you are still the one doing the reflecting and as such the work must inevitably revolve around you. Even if one were to reflect upon a novel from the viewpoint of an abstract Platonic concept, it would still be you reflecting upon the nature of an abstract Platonic concept reflecting upon a novel.

Wooooh, that made my head hurt. Anyway, you get the point - how could this not be a “me” pursuit and why does it matter even if it is?

What aspect of these reflections makes them unusable?

You bring up some good points, and it’s got me thinking… Why exactly are these assignments making me so peevish? Very excellent question…

Oh! Oh, oh, oh!!! I get it! It’s the questions that are bothering me! All the questions, having been written by an instructor with her own worldview (one that at times is in conflict with mine), feel like they have a pre-determined outcome. I don’t mean that she’s trying to lead me to a specific philosophy or anything.

The questions. There seems to be this under current in the assignments and questions that no one taking this course could have possibly ever done any interior work – and that’s what’s bothering me. This course would have been really appropriate as a teenager or even in my 20s. But at this point in my life, reflecting on my feet and what they “mean” just feels like a stupid waste of time. I’d rather reflect on the Cross of Christ, or the second Luminous mystery, or the those suffering martyrdom somewhere in the world today…

The problem, I suddenly realize, is not that I don’t want to go deep, but rather that I DO want to go deep, and into much broader mysteries.

Thank you so much for your post – God used it for an “aha!” moment for me

God bless you!

Gertie

 

[Gertabelle]

What aspect of these reflections makes them unusable?

I work with Kindergarten through fifth grade students – writing anything takes a long time for most of them. They only come to music class for 40 minutes every 3rd day. I just cannot sacrifice the time it would take to use this course’s reflections. So I am back to creating my own thing.

BTW, this course was listed as a continuing education course for teachers – not as a self-help, or self-discovery, or even “teacher care” kind of course. It was supposed to help me learn how to use journaling as a tool for my students to reflect on their work in writing. If the professor had honored that, her questions (and my assignments) could have helped me develop the journaling project I want to include in our CD (singing and playing instruments) project that the entire school is working on this year.

Hence the frustration On the plus side, I will still have the continuing education credits completed. And I will think more than twice before thinking my questions are better than my students as they reflect on our work throughout the year. They’ll probably be glad for that!

Gertie

 

[jmcrae]

The questions. There seems to be this under current in the assignments and questions that no one taking this course could have possibly ever done any interior work – and that’s what’s bothering me. This course would have been really appropriate as a teenager or even in my 20s. But at this point in my life, reflecting on my feet and what they “mean” just feels like a stupid waste of time. I’d rather reflect on the Cross of Christ, or the second Luminous mystery, or the those suffering martyrdom somewhere in the world today…

I feel the same way in my training programs for various Church leadership positions, when they ask “Where was God for you in the experience of taking this course?”

Uhm - He was in my heart … ?

I, too, would rather reflect on something that has a bit more to do with the subject at hand, such as, “When designing a prayer liturgy for teenagers, what aspects of your personal experience, especially your experiences when you were a teenager or new to the faith yourself, do you draw on, to make the experience more meaningful for the teens?” Or, “When preparing Catechetical sessions for RCIA, what kinds of personal examples would be appropriate to use, when using the story-telling method?”

 

[Gertabelle]

Just as an example - the one about listing your favourite objects and commenting on what they say about you - I think that’s a great exercise for anyone to do and wouldn’t something like that be a good idea for your students?

There’s nothing wrong with eating a candy bar either, but eating them exclusively throughout the entire course is making my stomach ill.

What I mean is that you are absolutely right! The assignment about the treasured objects could be a good one. But couple that with 29 other ways to delve into me! Can you honestly picture Blessed Teresa of Calcutta spending a couple hours everyday to think about herself in a new way – my favorite objects, my body parts, my self-portrait, the labels that best describe me, and on and on and on… Honestly, it’s enough to break even ME out of my pride. I can’t stand thinking about myself anyone – isn’t there a homeless person I could buy dinner for, or maybe the toilets in the nursing need cleaning?

Actually, these kind of creative exercises are very good for developing empathy, which is essential when dealing with the very young. You can look with clear eyes at your own past, which will give you a lot of insight into what’s going on in the lives of your students. ("Plus ça change … " etc.)

I agree with the empathy part – 100%. Nothing pushes our buttons like those little unresolved issues from our childhood – in teaching and in parenting! The thing for me is that I HAVE done this work, in therapy, and especially in the Wisdom Course through Landmark Education. In that course, I had to create an autobiography that was essentially a scrapbook, with a page for each year of my life. It had to include a picture of me at that age, my “originating circle” for each year (meaning the people who were regularly in my life, with as many names as possible – not just “second grade class” but Sharon, Billy, Julie, etc.), and the important events of that year. AND it had to be artistic! It took me more time than I can remember to create that, and I still have it and look through it occasionally, AND I cleared out so much of my wrong thinking about my life, my past, my relationships with people in the past and present…

This work, of course, should continue throughout one’s life. I just hadn’t planned on being required to spend a huge chunk of the summer doing therapy instead of an education course.

Thanks, however, for the reminder to get something out of the experience. As long as I’m talking to myself, and creating dialogue, and writing a letter to my deceased father (another assignment), I may as well try to get something out of it.

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.

You’re a practical person, so imagine the exercise in a practical way. Look at it as an exercise in which someone with your previous perspectives and perceptions talks to someone with your current perspectives and perceptions. The same with the “conversation with the dead.”

By bias, I mean systemic error that occurs according to a pattern; if the error was random, that would be a lack of precision, not a bias. But hey, maybe your thinking is more imprecise than biased, and “the other character” can challenge you to be more clear in how you express yourself.

Were I you taking this course, I would be considering what aspects of the various exercises I might put to good use in my own teaching. For instance, instead of making a suggestion that might literally be taken as an invitation to have contact with the dead, I might instead suggest that you write a play or a scene of a play in which you are one of the characters and someone famous is the other character. It would force the student to consider both how they seem to others in an exterior sense as well as how other people think and talk differently than they do.

Excellent points and advice, thank you! I think the main thing I’m getting out of this thread is that I need to stop whining and just finish the work! Since when do students get to decide what their assignments are?

And I am loving the advice on how to incorporate this in my classroom. With about 100 fifth graders, I don’t have the room or time even for them to do long writing assignments, but perhaps their “journaling” could be dramatized on the first day of snow (when everyone just needs to move). I would love to have my students interact with Mozart or a character from one of our songs – what FUN!!

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts!

God bless you all!

Gertie

 

[Gertabelle]

I feel the same way in my training programs for various Church leadership positions, when they ask “Where was God for you in the experience of taking this course?”

Uhm - He was in my heart … ?

I, too, would rather reflect on something that has a bit more to do with the subject at hand, such as, “When designing a prayer liturgy for teenagers, what aspects of your personal experience, especially your experiences when you were a teenager or new to the faith yourself, do you draw on, to make the experience more meaningful for the teens?” Or, “When preparing Catechetical sessions for RCIA, what kinds of personal examples would be appropriate to use, when using the story-telling method?”

He is indeed in your heart!

It does seem that leaders are often afraid to have people go deeper. I wonder why that is…

Gertie

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Thank you all so much! I am always so grateful for the wisdom of the people on these forums!

I think the reason I am so peevish at this point is that it is quite overwhelming to spend da after day reflecting on me, myself, and I. Draw yourself and make comments… Do a collage that represents you and make comments… List your favorite objects and comment and what they say about you… Draw representations of body parts (hands, head, shoulders, etc.) and look for the hidden meaning in your relationship to them… Me, me, me…

I do have a journal, and I used to enjoy writing in it a couple times a week, just to get thoughts out of my head so I could pray and concentrate on the needs of the day.

And I did the whole therapy thing in my 20s for years! And then I did many, many courses with Landmark Education in my 30s, completing the past and creating a powerful future – I still use that “technology” to clear the past out of my future. And I use the sacraments of the Church as well. And did I mention that I also spent two years the silence and prayer of a Benedictine monastery?

My point is that I am not some shallow person who likes to skim the surface and avoid any depth. Quite the opposite actually. It is not from fear of depth or lack of self-knowledge that this coursework makes me peevish.

I see your point however that I can get through these assignments a bit more my own way. There are prescribed questions, but I think I can find a way to work with them. I’m taking the work with me to the Adoration Chapel after mass today to try to complete this course and out it behind me.

What really frustrates me is that I was so hoping to find some excellent ways to do some quick power reflections with me students as we take on creating a school wide CD this year - and this course has offered me nothing I can use in my classroom where I see my students 40 minutes every third day. Very frustrating…

Rant over
Thanks again!

I understand completely. I think that some of the … er … younger generation almost cannot recognize the “me” element of society and think it’s quite dysfunctional NOT to be overly concerned with every little quirk and twitch of one’s inner landscape.

The older I get, the more I want to see Jesus when I look in the mirror, and not so much “me,” especially the navel-gazing and focus on my own psychology.