Conversion of Francis Beckwith vs. a theoretical conversion of me

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Angainor

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When Francis Beckwith converted to Roman Catholicism he simply had to go to confession just because he was once Roman Catholic in the past.

I know what Roman Catholicism is all about. Why can’t I simply go to confession and be Roman Catholic? It doesn’t seem fair.
 
Was he baptized and confirmed in the Catholic Church?
I think that it has to do with that confirmation thing.

Just show up and confess, I don’t think they will ask you for your membership card at the door.:o
You would have to go to RCIA, so we can -]brainwash/-], I mean instruct you to the truths of the faith.

(before my fellow catholics get all up in arms, I was just joking)

You say that you know all about Catholicism, but do you believe it?
If so, sign right up.👍
 
He came back knowing in his heart that Truth lies in the Catholic Church, and that doing so would cause some considerable hardship, but that was a sacrifice he was willing to make.

Are you willing to make the same sacrifice?
 
Angainor said:
When Francis Beckwith converted to Roman Catholicism he simply had to go to confession just because he was once Roman Catholic in the past.

I know what Roman Catholicism is all about. Why can’t I simply go to confession and be Roman Catholic? It doesn’t seem fair.
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Beckwith had presumably been baptized and catechized previously. For converts, the Church requires a familiarity with the teachings and history of the Church. This is most commonly done through the Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults (no, that doesn’t imply that Catholics believe all non-Catholics to be non-Christians).

I hear you on the fairness part—my wife and I sat in our pews during Mass for over a year watching our brothers and sisters partake of the Eucharist while we got up to speed.

Of course, by the time that glorious Easter vigil came along we were much better versed in our faith than the year prior. We were able to appreciate it more fully as a result.
 
runandsew said:
Was he baptized and confirmed in the Catholic Church?
I think that it has to do with that confirmation thing.

Just show up and confess, I don’t think they will ask you for your membership card at the door.:o
You would have to go to RCIA, so we can -]brainwash/-], I mean instruct you to the truths of the faith.

(before my fellow catholics get all up in arms, I was just joking)

You say that you know all about Catholicism, but do you believe it?
If so, sign right up.👍
Click to expand...
Yes, I do recall the pods our alien overlords climbed out of in the RCIA meeting room…
 
Technically, all that is required for conversion is a profession of faith in what the Catholic Church teaches. RCIA is useful because it exposes the candidate to the teachings of the Church - those that you will be professing to believe. However, there is no “one size fits all” in regards to conversion. If you have studied the Church and her teachings and have come to believe them all (or at least give them assent of the will to the ones you don’t completely understand) then it is possible to be received into the Church with a profession of faith. I would go to a Catholic church and speak to a priest and/or the diocesan bishop about your situation.

Of course, there is something to be said about participating in the various rites (election, etc) that participation in RCIA will afford you, as well as the experience of being received into the Church on Easter Vigil.
 
Angainor said:
When Francis Beckwith converted to Roman Catholicism he simply had to go to confession just because he was once Roman Catholic in the past.

I know what Roman Catholicism is all about. Why can’t I simply go to confession and be Roman Catholic? It doesn’t seem fair.
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Let that be a lesson to you. Raise your kids Catholic, and they’ll have the same chance as FB. 😃
 
Go to RCIA.

It is worth waiting a year to join the Church in order to go through RCIA as you will (hopefully) become friends with the people in your RCIA class.

One of the “problems” in the Catholic Church is a “lack of fellowship” in some parishes. In fact, it is one of the main reasons why people leave the Catholic Church and join evangelical, Pentecostal, or other non-Catholic ecclesial communities. They want friendships and fellowship, and they feel lonely and isolated in their Catholic parish. No one knows them and they don’t know anyone, and they’re too shy to just walk right up to someone and start talking. (Besides, at some parishes, people aren’t ALLOWED to talk to each other before or after Mass because of something called “reverence,” which is apparently more important than “love.” Hmmm. I think that’s a crock myself. If people are leaving Christ’s Church because of lack of love, then IMO, the Lord will not care if we are “reverent” or not. But this is another topic.)

We had about 30 people in our RCIA class, and they are still our “first-line” friends in our parish.

When you have friends in a church, you are more likely to keep going because you know that someone will miss you and wonder why you aren’t around. Accountability is a good thing!
 
Angainor said:
When Francis Beckwith converted to Roman Catholicism he simply had to go to confession just because he was once Roman Catholic in the past.

I know what Roman Catholicism is all about. Why can’t I simply go to confession and be Roman Catholic? It doesn’t seem fair.
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You say you “know what Roman Catholicism is all about.” Lots of people who hate the Church make this claim, so that statement by itself doesn’t mean you should automatically be brought into the Church.

On the other hand, if you said you believe the Catholic Church is the oracle of God, you would probably do whatever it took to become a Catholic–even putting in the time to attend RCIA sessions.

Going through the RCIA process is not a punishment, though. I am a cradle Catholic and have gone through all the classes twice. I learned a lot both years. I still attend classes about 10 times a year. Any Catholic can (and probably should) attend these sessions. It never hurts to learn something new.

If you are an enthusiastic Catholic convert, you will be a great asset to the classes.

But, like some of the other posters mentioned, attending RCIA classes is not an absolute requirement to entering the Church. If you spoke with a priest, and he felt you were adequately prepared to enter the Church, he could hear your confession and confirm you. This is how John Henry Newman came into the Church.
 
Janet_S said:
But, like some of the other posters mentioned, attending RCIA classes is not an absolute requirement to entering the Church. If you spoke with a priest, and he felt you were adequately prepared to enter the Church, he could hear your confession and confirm you. This is how John Henry Newman came into the Church.
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Of course, RCIA didn’t exist at that point. It is a post-Vatican-II creation, based on the catechetical process of the early Church. Before the creation/revival of RCIA, everyone was received through individual instruction. Newman was not a special case, though of course he was virtually unique in terms of his learning and theological ability.

As an RCIA dropout, I have mixed feelings about the system, but by and large I think the frustrations and humiliations inherent in the process (particularly for well-educated Protestants) are healthy (it is probably a good thing that I dropped out, in other words!).

Edwin
 
I’m hearing Eucharistic yearning… and it is crazy making isn’t it? Been there, done that. And Easter Vigil feels like a million months away about now…

Not sure RCIA is even close to being what it needs to be with its rigid scheduling and “bring 'em in, catechize 'em as a crowd and dunk 'em under the water at Easter” mentality, but honestly, it is worth it. And I totally get the Eucharistic yearning… I used to burst into tears sometimes when everyone went up for communion and I had to stay behind. I had my conversion experience in an “off RCIA” time-frame, and had to wait 4 years to be baptized. No wait… it just seemed that way.

Yes, if the waiting pangs get too awful, and you live in a dense population area, you can dig up someone who knows someone who has a brother who’s a Priest who will quietly do the deed without the big Easter RCIA fanfare. But honestly, it is worth the wait. And you never know what you might learn in RCIA.

sojo
 
Contarini said:
As an RCIA dropout, I have mixed feelings about the system, but by and large I think the frustrations and humiliations inherent in the process (particularly for well-educated Protestants) are healthy (it is probably a good thing that I dropped out, in other words!).
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Lol! I couldn’t help but think of the Episcopalians when I saw Angainor complaining. Two of my best friends are Episcopalian, and quite frankly they both have a better understanding of the Catholic faith than most Catholics I know. Unlike your experience, they have been through RCIA twice simply because we have a couple of outstanding catechists in my area. To my knowledge, they don’t have any plans on converting. They just enjoy the quality of the instruction.
 
tdgesq said:
Lol! I couldn’t help but think of the Episcopalians when I saw Angainor complaining. Two of my best friends are Episcopalian, and quite frankly they both have a better understanding of the Catholic faith than most Catholics I know. Unlike your experience, they have been through RCIA twice simply because we have a couple of outstanding catechists in my area. To my knowledge, they don’t have any plans on converting. They just enjoy the quality of the instruction.
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The RCIA program I was associated with was of good quality too. We had a lot of guest speakers from the local seminary. Also, our priest, who was a canon lawyer and a moral theologian, gave about half of the talks.

There are some good and challenging RCIA programs out there if you look for them.
 
It is not so much what you know as what you want.

But forget the adult ed. stuff if you can:speak to a priest.

I would never trust anybody but a priest to be brought into the RCC.

I haven’t either: through a friend, our new monsignor has catechized my wife and children: we will all take full part in the Mass God willing this Friday.

Roughly, six months of attending Mass, the last three of which meeting from time to time with monsignor, whose Spirit-filled teaching and reading assignments (for all of us, this cradle but lapsed Catholic included) should bring us to the sacramental life at the heart of the RCC.

The kids will enter CCD (shudder: I had it, too, and it was boring) for Confirmation this fall.

One important point: we all went into this together, with me and my wife (who is Presbyterian) in the lead.

But speak with a priest, or two, to see what is best.

I imagine most priests would welcome you as Bernini’s collonade does pilgrims to Rome.

God bless.
 
As evidenced by this thread, RCIA can be a mixed bag. Some programs are wonderful with great catechists teaching pertinent topics. Some are watered down programs with ill-informed people running the show. The latter was the experience for my husband.

I think he would fall into the “well-educated Protestant” category that Edwin mentioned. Our parish RCIA was just so impotent that it had nothing to engage Protestants really seeking truth and information. This was a MAJOR source of frustration for us during my husband’s extended conversion process.

There is something to be said for obedience. My husband is an incredibly humble man and he sought RCIA, primarily, as an act of humble obedience. Yet, it proved lacking towards his own conversion. If one’s parish requires RCIA, it is prudent to believe, unless proven otherwise, that the competent authority which requires it is quite aware of what sort of instruction is being offered. But, there are certain individual circumstances which might demand an extraordinary solution to the problems manifest in modern RCIA programs.

God was good to us. He raised up a group of amazing Catholics who educated my husband with tireless hours of catechesis. With the approval of our parish priest, my husband was excused from our regular parish RCIA program to seek private instruction at a nearby monastery. This allowed him to work out certain issues–with fear and trembling, mind you–for which the average parish catechist could not offer assistance due to resource, time, and capability limitations.

If you are truly seeking entrance into the Church, I believe that God will light the path for you. I don’t know you, but I would encourage you to consider if RCIA would be an act of obedience for you. Would going to an RCIA class be a sacrificial way in which you are humbling yourself before God? And if you find RCIA incompetent to meet your personal instruction needs, can you find an alternative source of instruction? You may need to do the necessary leg work.

God Bless.
 
Angainor said:
When Francis Beckwith converted to Roman Catholicism he simply had to go to confession just because he was once Roman Catholic in the past.

I know what Roman Catholicism is all about. Why can’t I simply go to confession and be Roman Catholic? It doesn’t seem fair.
Click to expand...
He was a “revert”; you would be a “convert” (yes, I know that technically you are not a convert because you are already a Christian, but you see the point).

The difference is that it would be important for the Church to get a grasp of your “disposition.” If you walked in the door and took a test on Catholic teaching and practice, and got 100% on it (which I tried to do but they wouldn’t have it!), it would still not demonstrate the disposition of your heart.

As for Edwin’s remark about the humiliation of RCIA, as a former candidate for Priesthood in the Episcopal Church, I was pretty “humiliated” by RCIA but putting up with that was a very good experience. I had a little way to go (still do) in the patience and humility department. It’s GOOD for us know-it-alls to go through the process with people who are still asking questions like, “Why do you people have those little dishes of water at the door?”
 
Dr. Beckwith is going to be our speaker at our conference here in Birmingham, AL. Then the following Monday he will be on Journey Home.

Jesus Is Lord!

A special conference offers the opportunity to strengthen and renew your faith on Sept. 21-22 at:

Our Lady of Sorrows Family Life Center
1728 Oxmoor Road, Homewood, AL 35209
Registration information: 205-942-5750

The conference flyer details the speakers and events for this special event.

catholiccharismaticrenewal.org/
 
mercygate said:
He was a “revert”; you would be a “convert” (yes, I know that technically you are not a convert because you are already a Christian, but you see the point).

The difference is that it would be important for the Church to get a grasp of your “disposition.” If you walked in the door and took a test on Catholic teaching and practice, and got 100% on it (which I tried to do but they wouldn’t have it!), it would still not demonstrate the disposition of your heart.

As for Edwin’s remark about the humiliation of RCIA, as a former candidate for Priesthood in the Episcopal Church, I was pretty “humiliated” by RCIA but putting up with that was a very good experience. I had a little way to go (still do) in the patience and humility department. It’s GOOD for us know-it-alls to go through the process with people who are still asking questions like, “Why do you people have those little dishes of water at the door?”
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We have two former Episcopal priests here in Birmingham that have come into the Church in the last few years.
 
Pani_Rose said:
We have two former Episcopal priests here in Birmingham that have come into the Church in the last few years.
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Yup. They’re all over the place. I think a seminary classmate of mine will be taking the swim within months, if not DAYS.

Things are getting pretty unbearable along the Stour for Catholic minded Anglicans.
 
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