Conversion Questions

[freerf]

For convenience, I’ll state my questions first:

1. Is it reasonable to convert without being convinced of all Catholic teachings?
2. What are the beliefs that a non-Catholic Christian must adopt prior to conversion?
3. If I’m required to have faith in the Catholic Church, what does that mean/imply?

Some background:

About a year ago my Catholic wife and I left the non-denominational, charismatic church we had attended for about 8 years. At her request, we started attending Mass. I found, to put it simply, I love Mass. The Mass and the teachings of the Catholic church have been an amazing blessing to our merriage and family. There is much fruit from that decision.

Now, I’m thinking of converting. Because, as scripture says, you’ll know a tree by it’s fruit. But, here’s the pickle: I’m not ready to convert if conversion requires my complete faith in the Catholic church. Faith in God? Yes. Faith that God wants me there? Yes. But, faith in the Catholic Church? I don’t know about that. I’m not sure I even know what that means.

So, while there are many teachings I am familiar with and accustomed to there are (obviously) many I am not. Most of these teachings I have come to enjoy and accept (such as transubstantiation, the office of the priesthood, the praying to saints, etc.)
However, there are many that my mind/heart/body must still consider and digest before accepting as truth. I’m no fool. I don’t simply jump off cliffs without knowing where I’m going to land. Understanding all the Church teaches to the point I’m comfortable with the teachings will, I think, take many years.

 

[momor]

Why don’t you try discussing this with the priest or RCIA director at the parish you are attending. They are the ones best able to decide if you would have an impediment to becoming a convert. Some Catholics struggle mightily with some of the Church’s teaching but it is our obligation to accept it and follow it while praying for enlightenment.

 

[NHInsider]

Now, I’m thinking of converting. Because, as scripture says, you’ll know a tree by it’s fruit. But, here’s the pickle: I’m not ready to convert if conversion requires my complete faith in the Catholic church. Faith in God? Yes. Faith that God wants me there? Yes. But, faith in the Catholic Church? I don’t know about that. I’m not sure I even know what that means.

So, while there are many teachings I am familiar with and accustomed to there are (obviously) many I am not. Most of these teachings I have come to enjoy and accept (such as transubstantiation, the office of the priesthood, the praying to saints, etc.)
However, there are many that my mind/heart/body must still consider and digest before accepting as truth. I’m no fool. I don’t simply jump off cliffs without knowing where I’m going to land. Understanding all the Church teaches to the point I’m comfortable with the teachings will, I think, take many years.

To come to full faith is the work of a lifetime, even if you were born into the Church. But more importantly, it is a gift that cannot be earned, only accepted!

When we say we have faith in the Catholic Church (or more precisely, that we “believe in the Holy Catholic Church”) what we are saying is that we believe that Jesus meant it when He said He was establishing a Church against which the gates of Hell would not prevail, and when He promised to send His Holy Spirit to guide the Apostles into everything they would need to know. So really it is about accepting Jesus’s promises, just as accepting the gift of salvation is about accepting His promises. It’s not like you’re saying you believe that the human beings who make up the institution are faultless or anything of that sort - it’s all about Him.

I think most of us who have converted did so while still struggling with some doctrinal points, but at the point where we were ready to say "I don’t understand it, but I believe that Jesus knows better than I do. . . . " And over time, many of the things we didn’t understand or “believe” (in the intellectual sense) at the time of our reception into the Church cease to be problems.

 

[justamoose89]

The Church is 2000 years old, its nearly impossible to understand all of it. I’ve been a Catholic all my life and I’ve not even touched the surface of understanding. I’ve learned more from this site in the last year than I have in the past 20 years of going to a Catholic University, Catholic highschool and elementary, sunday school, and Mass. And yet even during the times that I didn’t know nearly as much about my faith, I still had a passion for Jesus and living the Gospel.

We aren’t all called to be theologians (although we should find out as much as we possibly can about our faith) but we are called to love Christ and love each other.

I noticed you said that you believe in the real presence of the Eucharist! Thats what really kept me in the Church all these years. I knew it was Him. What other than the True Church could do that?

 

[JRKH]

For convenience, I’ll state my questions first:

1. Is it reasonable to convert without being convinced of all Catholic teachings?

Frankly yes it is reasonable to convert without being fully convinced of all catholic teachings - If you are convinced that The Catholic Church is the Church instituted by Christ and visibly and continuously present since Pentacost.

1. What are the beliefs that a non-Catholic Christian must adopt prior to conversion?

This is a rather involved question that is better answered in person by an RCIA director or priest.

1. If I’m required to have faith in the Catholic Church, what does that mean/imply?

That you believe that The Catholic Church is the Church instituted by Christ and visibly and continuously present since Pentacost.

Some background:

About a year ago my Catholic wife and I left the non-denominational, charismatic church we had attended for about 8 years. At her request, we started attending Mass. I found, to put it simply, I love Mass. The Mass and the teachings of the Catholic church have been an amazing blessing to our merriage and family. There is much fruit from that decision.

Would you be interested in conversing with a “Charismatic catholic”?

Now, I’m thinking of converting. Because, as scripture says, you’ll know a tree by it’s fruit. But, here’s the pickle: I’m not ready to convert if conversion requires my complete faith in the Catholic church. Faith in God? Yes. Faith that God wants me there? Yes. But, faith in the Catholic Church? I don’t know about that. I’m not sure I even know what that means.

Well obviously there is sufficient reason for you to pursue this.
Perhaps we could recommend some reading materials - Like anything written by Scott Hahn. Or perhaps you would benefit from some of the conversion stories on EWTN’s program called “The Journey Home”

So, while there are many teachings I am familiar with and accustomed to there are (obviously) many I am not. Most of these teachings I have come to enjoy and accept (such as transubstantiation, the office of the priesthood, the praying to saints, etc.)
However, there are many that my mind/heart/body must still consider and digest before accepting as truth. I’m no fool. I don’t simply jump off cliffs without knowing where I’m going to land. Understanding all the Church teaches to the point I’m comfortable with the teachings will, I think, take many years.

Mother Angelica, the founder of EWTN, describes faith as, “One foot on the ground, one foot in the air, and a queesy feeling in the stomach…”. Don’t be put off by the amount of things to learn. As others have said, we’re ALL still learning.
Follow The Holy Spirit on this. He has led you to The Mass, and to CAF. He has encouraged you to purue this further and there are many here who are only too happy to help.

Peace
James

 

[Bekamom]

i was so taken by mass it left me breathless let me tell you I Have had a long journey here to the catholic faith and alot of questions. but I know in my heart that god is there he is present and thats all I needed. man is fallible but god isn’t. having been burned in the past by a church I can tell you its skeptical. but I asked god to point me in the right direction and he brought me here, home to his church. Pray for guidance from god and leave your eyes open to his signs and love and he will be there to help guide you through.

 

[freerf]

Thanks everyone for posting. Faith and patience. I think that is the key. Wait on God for guidance, and meanwhile, research about the Catholic Church being Christ’s church. Also, I’ll pray about speaking with the priest.

Momor- probably the most prudent thing to do. Unfortunately, I don’t have that much free time.
NHInsider – protestants believe all that as well, His promises. Though they believe the church is an invisible church or “universal church”, that has no defined boundaries. I think maybe you are referring to believing that the Catholic Church is the church established by Christ.
Justamoose89 – well, I believe that transubstantiation could be an authentic interpretation of the bible. E.g. I have no intellectual problem accepting it. I also think it is quite a beautiful thing.
JRKH – “Frankly yes it is reasonable to convert without being fully convinced of all catholic teachings - If you are convinced that The Catholic Church is the Church instituted by Christ and visibly and continuously present since Pentacost.” I think this is a good place for me to start. Thank you for this clarification. I will, of course, eventually consult with a priest to confirm. But, I think He will agree.
RE 2: I agree with your statement.
RE Charismatic Christians: I’ve had it up to here (gesture to forehead) with Charismatic Christians. So, thanks, but no.
RE Follow holy spirit: good advice, thanks.
Bekamom: “god is there he is present and that’s all I needed” Ah, the beauty of faith! That is why I keep going too. “pray for guidance from god and leave your eyes open to his signs and love and he will be there to help guide you through” yes, again good advice.

Thanks again.

 

[fhansen]

770 The Church is in history, but at the same time she transcends it. It is only "with the eyes of faith"183 that one can see her in her visible reality and at the same time in her spiritual reality as bearer of divine life.

The ability to believe in the CC-to believe she proclaims the gospel truthfully-is a gift of grace in the same way as faith in God, or even more specifically in Jesus, is a gift of grace, usually working in conjunction with our willingness to know-our asking, seeking, and knocking.

 

[freerf]

The ability to believe in the CC-to believe she proclaims the gospel truthfully-is a gift of grace in the same way as faith in God, or even more specifically in Jesus, is a gift of grace, usually working in conjunction with our willingness to know-our asking, seeking, and knocking.

Hmmm. It is interesting then that some are given the gift of grace to believe in Jesus but not in the Catholic Church. Why would that be? This understanding seems problematic to me.

 

[fhansen]

Hmmm. It is interesting then that some are given the gift of grace to believe in Jesus but not in the Catholic Church. Why would that be? This understanding seems problematic to me.

It’s not really any more problematic than the fact that some are given grace to believe in Jesus while others aren’t. For myself, I was raised Catholic, didn’t buy any of it, and left the Church for over twenty years, meanwhile coming to faith in God and the basic truths of Christianity, mainly by scripture reading. I was basically Protestant, anti-Catholic, and later would go on to attend very conservative evangelical/pentecostal churches.

Much to my own surprise I found myself back at the CC, through a variety of circumstances, and I’ve continued to grow in my faith and knowledge of the Trinity and the teachings of Catholicism-through the teachings of Catholicism now, however, as I come to trust and agree with her on more and more things, plumbing the depth of her knowledge. So to anyone who’s not Catholic now-it may well be in your future. And in any case everyone’s Catholic once they’re in heaven.

 

[magdelaine1173]

Hmmm. It is interesting then that some are given the gift of grace to believe in Jesus but not in the Catholic Church. Why would that be? This understanding seems problematic to me.

Do you realize that Jesus was and is the embodiment of the catholic church? That Christ is the center of focus in catholicism, and that other christian denominations separate from the CC are separate because they do not hold fast to the full texts of the Catholic Bibe and its teachings. And that without belief in the one holy and apostolic church created by Christ, you are in effect denying God in His place of worship. Jesus is part of the holy trinity. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And is embodied in the people who attend the mass inside the church. When they talk about belief in the church, they mean those who worship in the church as a whole body of catholics…not the building…the people. Those who pray in the catholic church are the catholic church.

It will become easier to understand if a priest explains this to you at an RCIA class preperation and discernment meeting. Go with God, and I hope you decide to become a convert to the CC.
God Bless

 

[NHInsider]

Hmmm. It is interesting then that some are given the gift of grace to believe in Jesus but not in the Catholic Church. Why would that be? This understanding seems problematic to me.

Cause really there is only One Church. To a degree our Protestant confreres (of whom I, too, was one) are correct in this. Our Lord has only One Body. All who are being saved are part of it. The Church says more-or-less “perfectly joined” to explain the degrees of separation.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

1. Is it reasonable to convert without being convinced of all Catholic teachings?

No, unless you can take them on faith. More on this soon . . .

1. What are the beliefs that a non-Catholic Christian must adopt prior to conversion?

Read the Catechism. The Church is free from error on all matters of faith and morals. There are a handful of things that we can disagree on, such as the death penalty or immigration, but these are questions of how to apply Catholic teaching, not questions of what Catholic teaching itself is.

1. If I’m required to have faith in the Catholic Church, what does that mean/imply?

It means you believe that Jesus Christ created the Catholic Church as the one true Church of Jesus Christ, that she is holy, catholic and apostolic, that she is free from error, and you assent with faith to all her teachings.

I’ll explain more about the Church’s nature, which is Jesus Christ. This may help you some, I hope.

I’m not ready to convert if conversion requires my complete faith in the Catholic church. Faith in God? Yes. Faith that God wants me there? Yes. But, faith in the Catholic Church? I don’t know about that. I’m not sure I even know what that means.

Here’s a way to think about it that might help it to make more sense to you. Jesus Christ is God. The Church is the Body of Jesus Christ (1 Cor. 12:27). Therefore faith in the Church is faith in Jesus Christ. Indeed, Jesus said, “I am the Truth.” The Scripture also says, “The Church is the Pillar and the Foundation of Truth” (1 Tim. 3:15). Jesus is Truth and the Church is Truth’s Foundation and Pillar – it is one with the truth. Therefore the Church will not err, because it is part of Christ and Christ will not err. As Jesus said to Peter, “You are Rock, and upon this Rock I will build my Church, and the Gates of Hades will not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18). Rev. 22:15 states that all deceivers are kept out of the Church, and verse 5 states that the light of Christ will fill the Church so that it needs neither sun nor moon – it receives not reflections of truth but the fullness. Rev. 21 says the same thing, that all liars are kept out of the Church (vs. 8, 27), that Christ’s light fills the Church without reflection (vs. 23, 24), and that the apostles are the Church’s eternal defense against liars and those that do evil (v. 14). This supports the Apostolic Succession, as do many other Scripture passages from the Old and New Testaments (such as the succession of the Old Testament priesthood through Aaron’s sons, and the succession of bishops and presbyters mentioned occasionally in the New Testament). Indeed, according to Eph. 2:20, the apostles and prophets, together with Christ, constitute the Church’s Foundation. We depend on the apostles and their successors, and on Christ through them, because together with Him they form one foundation that He has promised to lead into all truth (John 16:13).

We believe that the Catholic Church is the Church Jesus Christ created. The evidence of Tradition and Scripture clearly support this belief. Every true Christian is imperfectly united with the Catholic Church unless they are Catholic, in which case they are in full unity. We believe in a Church that possesses “one faith” (Eph. 4:5) handed on by Jesus Christ to the world through the apostles. This one faith was handed on through both Scripture and Tradition, both of which we are obliged to believe in. Protestants agree about Scripture, but Apostolic Tradition, they are more wary of, even though there are a host of scriptures pointing out its authority (1 Cor. 11:2, 2 Thess. 2:15). The traditions of men, like the beliefs of the Pharisees and the novel ideas of deceivers who creep into the Church, are fallible, but the Traditions of the Church herself are infallible, because they come from Jesus, and His Word is Truth. The Church has never invented a new teaching, but has always professed one apostolic faith. She is not at liberty to change the one faith Christ passed on to us, but entrusted with the sacred task of preserving it for all generations (2 Tim. 2:2).

Here’s a good website where you can read dozens more passages showing the authority of Apostolic Tradition through Scripture:
scripturecatholic.com/oral_tradition.html

The original Christian view of the Church was much more glorious than the Protestant views are today. They believed in a Church both spiritual and incarnate, visible and invisible, like Christ Himself was visible in His humanity but invisible in His deity. They believed in a Church that could speak only truth, because it was preserved from error by the promises of Christ. They believed in a Church that was filled with sacramental power to transform people’s lives into holiness. They believed in unity that is lost on many Protestants, unity of one baptism into one faith and Lord. The Lord and His apostles ordained shepherds to rule the flock of Christ, representing Christ with special authority for all (Acts 20:28, John 21:16). Just as Christ is one, His Body is one; just as Christ’s religion is one, His Body’s religion is one; just as Christ is divine and incarnate, His Body is divine (filled with God) and incarnate (we are human). We must die with Him and be raised with Him, we must pick up our crosses and follow Him, Mary is Christ’s Mother and Mary is His Body’s Mother, etc. The parallels can keep going. The Church and Jesus Christ are fully one. As the Scripture says, “the Church is His Body, the fullness of Him who fills everything in every way” (Eph. 1:22-23).

This intensely glorious concept of the Church is different from what Protestants are used to, but it is what the Early Church believed in, and it is what we Catholics have always and will always believe in until the end of time.

 

[crazzeto]

For convenience, I’ll state my questions first:

1. Is it reasonable to convert without being convinced of all Catholic teachings?
2. What are the beliefs that a non-Catholic Christian must adopt prior to conversion?
3. If I’m required to have faith in the Catholic Church, what does that mean/imply?

Some background:

About a year ago my Catholic wife and I left the non-denominational, charismatic church we had attended for about 8 years. At her request, we started attending Mass. I found, to put it simply, I love Mass. The Mass and the teachings of the Catholic church have been an amazing blessing to our merriage and family. There is much fruit from that decision.

Now, I’m thinking of converting. Because, as scripture says, you’ll know a tree by it’s fruit. But, here’s the pickle: I’m not ready to convert if conversion requires my complete faith in the Catholic church. Faith in God? Yes. Faith that God wants me there? Yes. But, faith in the Catholic Church? I don’t know about that. I’m not sure I even know what that means.

So, while there are many teachings I am familiar with and accustomed to there are (obviously) many I am not. Most of these teachings I have come to enjoy and accept (such as transubstantiation, the office of the priesthood, the praying to saints, etc.)
However, there are many that my mind/heart/body must still consider and digest before accepting as truth. I’m no fool. I don’t simply jump off cliffs without knowing where I’m going to land. Understanding all the Church teaches to the point I’m comfortable with the teachings will, I think, take many years.

If God wants you there, then God also wants you to fully embrase the doctrinal teachings of the Church. So I would suggest that yes, you need to start discerning your faith not just in God, but in the very body of Chirst which is the Church.

Perhaps we can start this way, what exactly is it you have an issue with?

 

[puzzleannie]

For convenience, I’ll state my questions first:

1. Is it reasonable to convert without being convinced of all Catholic teachings?

it is unreasonable to think we can even begin to make this decision unless we will to invest some time, effort and prayer into learning what these teachings actually are. Bear in mind most lifetime Catholics are not even close to knowing to the level of having academic understanding of all the Church teaches, nor is this necessary. St. Thomas, probably the greatest theologian in history, ceased studying and writing shortly before his death after a mystical experience, and died saying “I know nothing.”

1. What are the beliefs that a non-Catholic Christian must adopt prior to conversion?

the are enunciated in the Nicene Creed

1. If I’m required to have faith in the Catholic Church, what does that mean/imply?

It means you must assent first to all Christ has revealed about himself and the Trinity, and that he established the Catholic Church to mediate his saving grace on earth, and that he endowed her with his authority to preach, teach and sanctify.

 

[FidesSpesCarita]

For convenience, I’ll state my questions first:

1. Is it reasonable to convert without being convinced of all Catholic teachings?
2. What are the beliefs that a non-Catholic Christian must adopt prior to conversion?
3. If I’m required to have faith in the Catholic Church, what does that mean/imply?

Some background:

About a year ago my Catholic wife and I left the non-denominational, charismatic church we had attended for about 8 years. At her request, we started attending Mass. I found, to put it simply, I love Mass. The Mass and the teachings of the Catholic church have been an amazing blessing to our merriage and family. There is much fruit from that decision.

Now, I’m thinking of converting. Because, as scripture says, you’ll know a tree by it’s fruit. But, here’s the pickle: I’m not ready to convert if conversion requires my complete faith in the Catholic church. Faith in God? Yes. Faith that God wants me there? Yes. But, faith in the Catholic Church? I don’t know about that. I’m not sure I even know what that means.

So, while there are many teachings I am familiar with and accustomed to there are (obviously) many I am not. Most of these teachings I have come to enjoy and accept (such as transubstantiation, the office of the priesthood, the praying to saints, etc.)
However, there are many that my mind/heart/body must still consider and digest before accepting as truth. I’m no fool. I don’t simply jump off cliffs without knowing where I’m going to land. Understanding all the Church teaches to the point I’m comfortable with the teachings will, I think, take many years.

I just read this sig line and feel it is appropriate here:

“For I do not seek to understand that I may believe, but I believe in order to understand. For this I believe - that unless I believe, I should not understand.”. - Anselm

Is your problem lack of faith or lack of understanding?

Remember that you are not required to understand it, only accept it. Father Corapi is fond of saying that a thousand troubles do not make one doubt. It is OK to say “I cant understand this” or “Why does the Church teach that”. It is not acceptable to persistently believe that the Catholic Church is in error.

Perhaps you should find those things that you “cannot” believe and research WHY the Church teaches them. The Catholic Church is the most incredible place in the world in the transparency it has for ALL of its teachings. You can find out who was the first person to say anything we hold as true, and read MANY explanations of why we hold it as true.

Remember, freerf, that the Catholic Church is headed by the Christ. Therefore faith in the teachings of the Church is, in a sense and in fact, faith in Christ.

FSC

 

[rainman10]

You stated that you believe or have faith that God wants you here (in the Catholic Church). If this is true, what more to you need? He is guiding you to His truth and will not mislead you.

I think that, as stated before by one of the other posters, if you don’t understand a teaching of the Catholic Church, it is ok, but you must have faith and believer that it is true and at the same time investigate it further so you will learn that it is, in fact true. Faith in Jesus Christ is faith in the Catholic Church, because it is His Church and His bride and He does not teach error or mislead. It can be confusing at times, but your faith that the Church is the true Church will get you through any confusion or doubts.

If you need help, ask God. If you don’t need help, thank God.