Conversion to Catholicism?

[eichenb2]

See right here is the problem… your biggest impediment is that you are not even open to learning the why’s of this faith… you want it to be ok for you to carry on with business as usual rather than explore why the Catholic Church has the position it does… education is the key to understanding.

Read my previous replies. The reasoning is not sound. The catholic church is caught up in technicalities. You won’t see though, because you need to reason with an open mind. Are you willing to acknowledge that church’s stance could wrong? Is it even in the realm of possibility?

 

[BlestOne]

Your version of being faithful to God appears to make a man who appears to lack masculinity, as regards there sexuality. Telling a man that he has to examine his thoughts before making love to determine if it is lust or love, seems to me to be splitting hairs. I didn’t mean to offend you. That is just the way I see it.

Now that is just ridiculous! The Catholic Church respects women and marriage. I guess you are just not ready to lead a purely holy life.

Read my previous replies. The reasoning is not sound. The catholic church is caught up in technicalities. You won’t see though, because you need to reason with an open mind. Are you willing to acknowledge that church’s stance could wrong? Is it even in the realm of possibility?

The reasoning is sound… you are caught up in technicalities not the Church. As a married woman in the Church, I know how beautiful the teachings on marriage are. You my friend, just can’t see past yourself and your wants. Have you ever put God before your marriage?

 

[eichenb2]

Now that is just ridiculous! The Catholic Church respects women and marriage. I guess you are just not ready to lead a purely holy life.

The reasoning is sound… you are caught up in technicalities not the Church. As a married woman in the Church, I know how beautiful the teachings on marriage are. You my friend, just can’t see past yourself and your wants. Have you ever put God before your marriage?

:crying:

 

[HappyRevert]

Read my previous replies. The reasoning is not sound. The catholic church is caught up in technicalities. You won’t see though, because you need to reason with an open mind. Are you willing to acknowledge that church’s stance could wrong? Is it even in the realm of possibility?

I have to say, I find the circular logic very frustrating. In a previous post you asked me if I considered the church could possibly be wrong. I replied that I actually did think the church’s stance was wrong and advocated ignoring it, but then after careful investigation realized that the one who was wrong was me. It seems to have fallen on deaf ears. You are accusing another faithful Catholic of the same thing.

For some reason, those who disagree with the church infer that those of us who agree do not take the trouble to have an open mind and investigate what is actually being taught by our church. It is a bit arrogant to accuse us of not having an open mind, when you haven’t even bothered to read the document with the reasons why the church has taken its stance (or if you have, you haven’t acknowledged it). Most educated Catholics take our faith extremely seriously. We don’t blindly follow along, but if we hear something has been published by our church with which we disagree, we take the time to investigate exactly what the church has said and why. It certainly doesn’t indicate a closed mind, but an open questioning one.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Hmm…6+ months of shacking up with my wife (er…sister) and then told that I should not not have lust for my wife (see theology of the body). That is obsurd. My wife and I are married and I don’t believe that intercourse must “always be open to procreation”, within the bonds of marriage. Also, I would not go into it expecting an annullment. Isn’t that first thing they tell you?

You are the person who divorced your wife and re-married, so you have nobody to blame but yourself. Tough.

Is that harsh? If it is, then I am sure the tribunal will see to it that you are given a decree of nullity. If it is not harsh, and your marriage was sacramental and valid, then this is the consequence for your adultery.

I’m sorry, but I am really sick and tired of the whining and complaining about the Church I’ve heard lately from potential converts. It sounds to me like you really don’t believe that the Church speaks for God at all, but this is all just a big exclusive club. If you really believed that the Church speaks for God, you would have complete faith that if your first marriage was invalid that God will see to it that this situation is rectified.

And as for you not being able to spend a few months abstaining, I really can’t sympathize.

 

[LeroyCRHP]

Without accepting what the church teaches you will have problems with the rules (isn’t that Mr Obvious). With all respect when you are making up your own rules for what is wrong and right it won’t work. This thread doesn’t seem to be about giving you advise as much as you want to prove your version of morality is the right way. I’ve had several friends similar to you that go through every step and they have come out wonderful and fully in sync with the church. I have another friend, was very faithful but met an nice woman and decided “the silly rules of bunch of old men did not matter” and he got married outside the church, rarely attends now and I’m not sure where he will end up. I converted in 94, the beauty of the church is the rules do not bend and as you understand them they are all soundly based in the Bible. I also have went through my early days of being a cafeteria Catholic, I liked this, not that, I’ll practice that and won’t this. That was me, I’m much happier trying to follow every rule I can now.

Good Luck YBIC, Leroy

Hmm…6+ months of shacking up with my wife (er…sister) and then told that I should not not have lust for my wife (see theology of the body). That is obsurd. My wife and I are married and I don’t believe that intercourse must “always be open to procreation”, within the bonds of marriage. Also, I would not go into it expecting an annullment. Isn’t that first thing they tell you?

 

[BrianStacy]

Let me be openly honest…

I began RCIA in September with the wrong motives… I wanted to “fit in”… little did I know I was in for a rude awakening. During winter break from school I kept feeling a longing in my heart… I knew turning back to what I was before would leave me feeling helpless and alone. So there I went with my little pity party a bit longer, until I received a reminder of what Catholicism truly is… being One, Holy, Apostolic, CATHOLIC Church/Body of Christ and receiving the Sacraments established by Jesus Christ, especially the Holy Eucharist.

So now, my goal is to truly get back in RCIA with prayers to be Confirmed on Easter Vigil of this year. I will be meeting with the Deacon and possibly the Priest and discussing what I have been realizing over the past several months… and I will be talking to the man I asked to be my sponsor about what has been going on just to clue him in a bit.

I didn’t intend to hijack the thread, but the point is this… you don’t just “become” Catholic… You learn the Faith as a faithful Catholic, and although some teachings may be hard to chew on… Just tell Jesus to help you and ask Mary and the saints for intercession in regards to the teachings of the Faith that you are having trouble understanding and accept them in Faith.

The Church can’t (and won’t) lead you astray, you know?

My prayers are with you…

 

[BlestOne]

I shared this thread with dh… He read the part about Catholic men being pansies… I believe his comment was, “Oh yeah because it takes a real man to kill their baby for their convenience!”

I guess this just showed me the difference in mindset… Catholic men tend to count their blessings from God and accept the responsibility… that isn’t wussy… that is being a mature man of God.

eichenb2 maybe you could learn to love and trust God with your whole heart…

 

[eichenb2]

I have to say, I find the circular logic very frustrating. In a previous post you asked me if I considered the church could possibly be wrong. I replied that I actually did think the church’s stance was wrong and advocated ignoring it, but then after careful investigation realized that the one who was wrong was me. It seems to have fallen on deaf ears. You are accusing another faithful Catholic of the same thing.

For some reason, those who disagree with the church infer that those of us who agree do not take the trouble to have an open mind and investigate what is actually being taught by our church. It is a bit arrogant to accuse us of not having an open mind, when you haven’t even bothered to read the document with the reasons why the church has taken its stance (or if you have, you haven’t acknowledged it). Most educated Catholics take our faith extremely seriously. We don’t blindly follow along, but if we hear something has been published by our church with which we disagree, we take the time to investigate exactly what the church has said and why. It certainly doesn’t indicate a closed mind, but an open questioning one.

What is you still disagree after “investigation”? Is that a possibility???

 

[eichenb2]

I shared this thread with dh… He read the part about Catholic men being pansies… I believe his comment was, “Oh yeah because it takes a real man to kill their baby for their convenience!”

I guess this just showed me the difference in mindset… Catholic men tend to count their blessings from God and accept the responsibility… that isn’t wussy… that is being a mature man of God.

eichenb2 maybe you could learn to love and trust God with your whole heart…

Sperm is NOT a fetus! Is that hard for you and your DH to understand??? Oh, but wait, theChurch told you to equate them…so you do. That’s rational.

 

[eichenb2]

Without accepting what the church teaches you will have problems with the rules (isn’t that Mr Obvious). With all respect when you are making up your own rules for what is wrong and right it won’t work. This thread doesn’t seem to be about giving you advise as much as you want to prove your version of morality is the right way. I’ve had several friends similar to you that go through every step and they have come out wonderful and fully in sync with the church. I have another friend, was very faithful but met an nice woman and decided “the silly rules of bunch of old men did not matter” and he got married outside the church, rarely attends now and I’m not sure where he will end up. I converted in 94, the beauty of the church is the rules do not bend and as you understand them they are all soundly based in the Bible. I also have went through my early days of being a cafeteria Catholic, I liked this, not that, I’ll practice that and won’t this. That was me, I’m much happier trying to follow every rule I can now.

Good Luck YBIC, Leroy

Your a TRUE BELIEVER!

 

[BlestOne]

Sperm is NOT a fetus! Is that hard for you and your DH to understand??? Oh, but wait, theChurch told you to equate them…so you do. That’s rational.

First off… We very well understand that sperm is not a fetus… but we also understand the dynamics… i.e. sperm must meet egg for conception… and that is the openness to God’s plan. The Church did not tell us to equate them, that is just plain biology… and yes, rational.

Second… do you realize how whiny and pathetic it sounds to make statements like you made above just because you aren’t hearing what you want to hear?

eichenb2 please spend more time understanding why Catholics believe that marriage is sacramental, sex is a wonderful gift and why we welcome God into our marriages… then look at the openness to life from that perspective.

 

[eichenb2]

You are the person who divorced your wife and re-married, so you have nobody to blame but yourself. Tough.

Is that harsh? If it is, then I am sure the tribunal will see to it that you are given a decree of nullity. If it is not harsh, and your marriage was sacramental and valid, then this is the consequence for your adultery.

I’m sorry, but I am really sick and tired of the whining and complaining about the Church I’ve heard lately from potential converts. It sounds to me like you really don’t believe that the Church speaks for God at all, but this is all just a big exclusive club. If you really believed that the Church speaks for God, you would have complete faith that if your first marriage was invalid that God will see to it that this situation is rectified.

And as for you not being able to spend a few months abstaining, I really can’t sympathize.

You complete inability to get my point is astounding. My point was idiotic reasoning on two points. First, a former presbyterian convert to Catholicism is forced to sweat it out and prove by a “positive act of the will” that his former marriage was null, even though he was completely oblivious of the church’s teaching. On the other hand, a Catholic (baptized and confirmed in CC), can get a cut & tried annullment for “defect of form”, since he did not get a dispensation to marry outside the CC. In the former’s case, the CC could determine that his 20 marriage to his current wife (w/ children) could be non-existent. The latter can skate by with his clean “defect of form” annullment. That fact that you do not see this as unjust is disturbing; to say the least.
Secondly, the CC teachs that Coitus Interruptus is prohibited because your not leaving yourself open to procreation. But coitus interruptus does not concieve a baby, so it is unlike abortion. My point here is that just this. While the two may have the same result, one concieves the other doesn’t. If you same they both lead to the same thing, then I will say that going to play hockey while my wife is home will stop us from concieving too. Is play hockey disallowed? Barring you inclusion of the Oran story (which will inevitably follow), this is not sound reasoning. Coitus Interruptus and abortion are not the same in the most important aspect. Just for kicks, though. Do you believe that the Church could be wrong on anything…ever?

 

[Angels_Unaware]

First you call Catholic men pansies, and now you twist the words of other people to accuse them of beliefs and practices that they don’t have.

I am going to take a wild guess that you are throwing a childish tantrum about being asked to abstain from sex and to receive an annulment because you have some bad behavior in your past that you don’t want to go back and deal with, and annulment would mean facing it.

That is the most common reason for immature, offensive, tantruming on behalf of men who are asked to obey the Church.

In my opinion, as a women, obedient, self-controlled men, respectful and reverent men are MUCH more attractive and virile. :twocents:

 

[eichenb2]

First off… We very well understand that sperm is not a fetus… but we also understand the dynamics… i.e. sperm must meet egg for conception… and that is the openness to God’s plan. The Church did not tell us to equate them, that is just plain biology… and yes, rational.

Second… do you realize how whiny and pathetic it sounds to make statements like you made above just because you aren’t hearing what you want to hear?

eichenb2 please spend more time understanding why Catholics believe that marriage is sacramental, sex is a wonderful gift and why we welcome God into our marriages… then look at the openness to life from that perspective.

I am sooooooo happy for you :clapping:

 

[eichenb2]

First you call Catholic men pansies, and now you twist the words of other people to accuse them of beliefs and practices that they don’t have.

I am going to take a wild guess that you are throwing a childish tantrum about being asked to abstain from sex and to receive an annulment because you have some bad behavior in your past that you don’t want to go back and deal with, and annulment would mean facing it.

That is the most common reason for immature, offensive, tantruming on behalf of men who are asked to obey the Church.

In my opinion, as a women, obedient, self-controlled men, respectful and reverent men are MUCH more attractive and virile. :twocents:

Have you even read my posts??? I guess Catholic men are obedient…to there wives.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

You complete inability to get my point is astounding. My point was idiotic reasoning on two points. First, a former presbyterian convert to Catholicism is forced to sweat it out and prove by a “positive act of the will” that his former marriage was null, even though he was completely oblivious of the church’s teaching. On the other hand, a Catholic (baptized and confirmed in CC), can get a cut & tried annullment for “defect of form”, since he did not get a dispensation to marry outside the CC. In the former’s case, the CC could determine that his 20 marriage to his current wife (w/ children) could be non-existent. The latter can skate by with his clean “defect of form” annullment. That fact that you do not see this as unjust is disturbing; to say the least.
Secondly, the CC teachs that Coitus Interruptus is prohibited because your not leaving yourself open to procreation. But coitus interruptus does not concieve a baby, so it is unlike abortion. My point here is that just this. While the two may have the same result, one concieves the other doesn’t. If you same they both lead to the same thing, then I will say that going to play hockey while my wife is home will stop us from concieving too. Is play hockey disallowed? Barring you inclusion of the Oran story (which will inevitably follow), this is not sound reasoning. Coitus Interruptus and abortion are not the same in the most important aspect. Just for kicks, though. Do you believe that the Church could be wrong on anything…ever?

You are very, very, immature. You have come to all kinds of twisted, false, self-serving conclusions about what I believe and why, and what is fair and why, that I am not even going to address.

I do not have the slightest sympathy for you ranting and raving about being asked not have sex.

I certainly feel sorry for your wife. If she were ever in the hospital for any length of time, who knows what you would justify to yourself.

 

[BlestOne]

You are very, very, immature. You have come to all kinds of twisted, false, self-serving conclusions about what I believe and why, and what is fair and why, that I am not even going to address.

I do not have the slightest sympathy for you ranting and raving about being asked not have sex.

I certainly feel sorry for your wife. If she were ever in the hospital for any length of time, who knows what you would justify to yourself.

I have to agree with you… however reluctantly I was to voice my opinion. I think about how much both husband and wife sacrifice to do things the right way…i.e. God’s way and how much richer our lives are for that sacrifice and I can only determine that this poster is immature and doesn’t understand God’s way is ALWAYS better than our own way. Prayers for him…and most especially his wife.

 

[kage_ar]

Wow.

Catholic men are pansies?

There is nothing more manly than a man who is obedient to Holy Mother Church, who models what St. Paul spoke of in loving his wife more than his own body.

Prayers that God will show you the beauty of HIS way.

 

[eichenb2]

You are very, very, immature. You have come to all kinds of twisted, false, self-serving conclusions about what I believe and why, and what is fair and why, that I am not even going to address.

I do not have the slightest sympathy for you ranting and raving about being asked not have sex.

I certainly feel sorry for your wife. If she were ever in the hospital for any length of time, who knows what you would justify to yourself.

Just to show u how ignorant and hypocritical you are. My wife is the person (and she is a WONDERUL person) who clued me in. She brought me to my senses. If my previous marriage is not anulled (and I would have to go into it prepared for the worst). My lovely wife and I would have to live as brother-sister. This is a bad example for my 13 year-old (and she would be perceptive enough to notice the lack of intimacy). Both of us view confugal love as a protection of for ourselves from temptation. This would in her opinion (mine too) would give satan a foothold in out marriage. Whether you understand this or not is irrelevant! Interestingly, the Orthodox churchs have a much more practical view of this. So…you keep blindly following what “THE CHURCH” says, it seems impractical and unreasonable to me and MOST OTHER CHRISTIANS IN THE WORLD. I heard lemmings are among the happiest animals . As regards my wife’s health, she has been hospitalized for months on end and almost died, due to one pregnancy. IT IS NOT ONLY ABOUT ME NOT HAVING SEX!!!