Conversion to Mormonism?

[RebeccaJ]

Do you believe Christ was a God before he became human? Do you believe he was human and then ascended to Heaven as God?

Whether you like it or not…Christ is a God with a resurrected human body. He lived a human experience went back to heaven with that body as God.

Christians believe Jesus IS GOD, not a God.

You must be referring to Isaiah…here it goes.

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and **beside me there is no God**.

Passages such as Isa 44:6,8 and 45:5,21 that read “no God beside me” or a variation of that phrase are traditionally interpreted by mainstream anti-Mormons as meaning that other than Yahweh no form of deity exists at all, including exalted men. This type of interpretation at first seems obvious, but after considering similar passages in other parts of scripture it is clear that this interpretation is incorrect.

For example, Isaiah 47:8-10 depicts the city of Babylon as saying:

Therefore hear now this, thou that art given to pleasures, that dwellest carelessly, that sayest in thine heart, I am, and **none else beside me**; I shall not sit as a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children:

For thou hast trusted in thy wickedness: thou hast said, None seeth me. Thy wisdom and thy knowledge, it hath perverted thee; and thou hast said in thine heart, I am, and **none else beside me. **

These passages use the exact same phrase as Isa 44 and 45, yet they certainly do not exclude the existence of any city other than Babylon. The city of Ninevah would be very upset if this were the case, as Zephaniah depicts Ninevah in Zephaniah 2:15 as saying:

This is the rejoicing city that dwelt carelessly, that said in her heart, I am, and there is **none beside me**: how is she become a desolation, a place for beasts to lie down in! every one that passeth by her shall hiss, and wag his hand.

Again it is clear that this phrase does not exclude the very existence of other cities. Using these parallel phrases makes it clear that Isaiah is not excluding the very existence of any other deity when he quotes Yahweh as declaring “there is no God beside me.”

The other so-called gods being referenced here are pagan gods. There are no other gods. Get it? Israel struggled for a long, long time, believing the pagan gods of their neighbors to be real gods, subordinate to their God. God leads them out of this idolatrous belief, eventually. Mormonism is an attempt to revert to error.

This, along with your comments on Ashera, is evidence that Mormons are a paganized version of Christianity, ie, not the True religion, and certainly not Christian.

There are, in fact, several scriptures in the Old Testament that imply that Yahweh is in fact one of a number of Gods, albeit supreme. Compare the following passages from the KJV, NIV and ESV versions of the Bible:

And the heavens shall praise thy wonders, O Lord: thy faithfulness also in the congregation of the saints. For who in the heaven can be compared unto the Lord? who **among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the Lord?**

God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him. O Lord God of hosts, who is a strong Lord like unto thee? or to thy faithfulness round about thee? (KJV Psalms 89:5-8)

The heavens praise your wonders, O LORD, your faithfulness too, i**n the assembly of the holy ones**. For who in the skies above can compare with the LORD? Who is like the LORD **among the heavenly beings** [fn. Lit "sons of god(s)]? In **the council of holy ones** God is greatly feared; he is more awesome than all who surround him. O LORD God almighty, who is like you? You are mighty, O LORD, and your faithfulness surrounds you (NIV Psalms 89:5-8).

There isn’t anything in these passages about gods. God is,served by a heavenly host, most often called angels by us, but given other names as well.

**Among all the gods there is none like unto thee**

, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works (Psalms 86:8).

Again, a reference to pagan gods who the Israelites viewed as real, and subordinate, to their own God.

God has taken his place in the divine council; **in the midst of the gods **

he holds judgment (ESV Psalms 82:1)

Who were the judges of Israel? See Isaiah 3:13-15.

13
The LORD rises to accuse,
stands to try his people.
14
The Lord enters into judgment
with the people’s elders and princes:
You, you who have devoured the vineyard;
the loot wrested from the poor is in your houses.
15
What do you mean by crushing my people,
and grinding down the faces of the poor?
says the Lord, the GOD of hosts.

The judges of Israel were likened to God, for their office of being the judges of the people, as it is proper to the jurisdiction of God to judge. This does not mean the elders and princes of Israel were divine. They were human.

Even the apostle Paul acknowledged the existence of other gods when he said…

For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,

) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 1 Cor 8:5-6

Please, Paul is talking about the Roman gods, and making a comparison of belief. The same can be said for you: though you call many gods, god, and whether these gods be of heaven or earth, there is but to us One God. We don’t believe your so-called gods are real, and neither did Paul. Christians were martyred for the fact they rejected the Roman gods.

Christians are not pagan, and clearly, in Paul’s time he clarified this. Heed his words.

 

[RebeccaJ]

1 Corinthians 8 in context. There was debate, or confusion, among the pagan converts to Christianity in Corinth, as to whether or not it was ok to eat meat that had been sacrificed to Roman gods. The tradition of this practice being, a meat sacrifice would be made to the Roman gods, and then the meat would be divided among the people. For many people of this era, meat was a luxury, not an everyday meal, so turning down free meat was a big deal. Paul addresses the Christians at Corinth, telling them

Verse 4-6: *So about the eating of meat sacrificed to idols: **we know that “there is no idol in the world,” and that “*there is no God but one.” Indeed, even though there are so-called gods in heaven and on earth (there are, to be sure, many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom all things are and for whom we exist,
and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and through whom we exist.

Here Paul points out that for the Christians in Corinth, there is but one God. The idols of Roman religious practice are not their gods. He then continues:

Verse 7 But not all have this knowledge. There are some who have been so used to idolatry up until now that, when they eat meat sacrificed to idols, their conscience, which is weak, is defiled.

Paul makes,the observation that not all have the knowledge that there is one God. They are so used to pagan beliefs, of many gods, that when they eat the meat sacrificed to idols they continue to hold a belief in many gods…their conscience is defiled.

Verse 8-9 *Now food will not bring us closer to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, nor are we better off if we do. But make sure that this liberty of yours in no way becomes a stumbling block to the weak. If someone sees you, with your knowledge, reclining at table in the temple of an idol, may not his conscience too, weak as it is, be “built up” to eat the meat sacrificed to idols?
*

Eating or not eating food, including the meat of idols, is in itself spiritually neutral. However, a Christian eating the meat sacrificed to the Roman gods may give the impression that Christians were worshipping Roman gods, and not just eating food.

Verses 11-13: Thus through your knowledge, the weak person is brought to destruction, the brother for whom Christ died. When you sin in this way against your brothers and wound their consciences, weak as they are, you are sinning against Christ. Therefore, if food causes my brother to sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I may not cause my brother to sin.

If you cause someone to stumble in their Christian faith, which has the knowledge of one God, by participating in pagan rituals, you are sinning against Christ! What is the sin? Eating meat? No, Paul already said eating food is spiritually neutral. The sin against Christ is causing a person who is not knowledgeable of the one God, to believe that Christians believe in the gods of the Romans. It is so important to understanding one God, that it is a sin to cause others to believe in other gods!

Dear Mormons, heed the words of Paul.

there is no God but one

 

[TexanKnight]

Do you believe Christ was a God before he became human? Do you believe he was human and then ascended to Heaven as God?

STOP! You are intentionally dodging and hiding. I was talking of God the Father. YOU believe GOD THE FATHER was once human. Do not deflect it to Jesus and run. That is, unless you follow the teachings of Brigham, who taught Adam is our God.

You must be referring to Isaiah…here it goes.

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and **beside me there is no God**.

Passages such as Isa 44:6,8 and 45:5,21 that read “no God beside me” or a variation of that phrase are traditionally interpreted by mainstream anti-Mormons as meaning that other than Yahweh no form of deity exists at all, including exalted men. This type of interpretation at first seems obvious, but after considering similar passages in other parts of scripture it is clear that this interpretation is incorrect.

Actually, I referred to MANY verses where God said HE was the ONLY God…and HE knew no others, and HE was the Beginning AND the End. And the interpretation is clear, unless you need to corrupt it to justify lds teachings. Here is the difference: We take Scriptures and follow them, forming our teaching from the Scriptures. YOU make up teachings, then change the Scriptures to fit the teachings…

 

[TexanKnight]

I do not know any Mormon who believes that God the Father is Adam.

So you reject Brigham as a prophet? Do you deny he taught that Adam is our God? And if you reject Brigham, doesn’t your house of cards fall?

ASo, it is hard to believe that Brigham Young said what you quoted…but if he really said it the way it was recorded, then it is not accepted it, is not correct and it is not Mormon doctrine and it is not taught in the church

That is what I thought. You do not know the LDS Church any better than you knew the Catholic Church. Let us take a look…

“Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken – He is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later!”

• Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 1, p. 51;

“Here let me state to all philosophers of every class upon earth, When you tell me that father Adam was made as we make adobies from the earth, you tell me what I deem an idle tale. When you tell me that the beasts of the field were produced in that manner, you are speaking idle words devoid of meaning. There is no such thing in all the eternities where the Gods dwell… Adam and Eve are the parents of all pertaining to the flesh, and I would not say that they are not also the parents of our spirits.”

• Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 7, pp. 285, 290

“Some have grumbled because I believe our God to be so near to us as Father Adam. There are many who know that doctrine to be true.”

• Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 331

“Though we have it in history that our father Adam was made of the dust of this earth, and that he knew nothing about his God previous to being made here, yet it is not so; and when we learn the truth we shall see and understand that he helped to make this world, and was the chief manager in that operation. He was the person who brought the animals and the seeds from other planets to this world, and brought a wife with him and stayed here. You may read and believe what you please as to what is found written in the Bible. Adam was made from the dust of an earth, but not from the dust of this earth. He was made as you and I are made, and no person was ever made upon any other principle.”

• Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 3, pp. 319-320;

“I tell you, when you see your Father in the Heavens, you will see Adam; when you see your Mother that bear your spirit, you will see Mother Eve.”

• Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 1, p. 50

“Some may think what I have said concerning Adam strange, but the period will come when the people will be willing to adopt Joseph Smith as their Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and God! but not the Father of their spirits, for that was our Father Adam.”

• Prophet Brigham Young, Journal History, p. 131, December 11, 1869

“Before me I see a house full of Eves. What a crowd of reflections the word Eve is calculated to bring up! Eve was the name or title conferred upon our first mother, because she was actually to be the mother of all human beings who should live upon this earth. I am looking upon a congregation designed to be just such beings.”

• Prophet Brigham Young, Millennial Star, v. 31, p. 267

“How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revleaed to me – namely that Adam is our father and God . He brought one of his wives with him, and she was called Eve, because she was the first woman upon the earth. Our Father Adam is the man who stands at the gate and holds the keys of everlasting life and salvation to all his children who have or who ever will come upon the earth. I have been found fault with by the ministers of religion because I have said that they were ignorant. But I could not find any man on the earth who cold tell me this, although it is one of the simplest things in the world, until I met and talked with Joseph Smith.”

• Prophet Brigham Young, Deseret News, v. 22, no. 308, June 8, 1873

“Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation.”

• Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 1, p. 51

“Our Father begot all the spirits that were before any tabernacle was made. When our Father came into the Garden He came with his Celestial body and brought one of his wives with him and ate of the fruit of the Garden until He could beget a Tabernacle. And Adam is Michael God and all the God that we have anything to do with. They ate of this fruit and formed the first Tabernacle that was formed. And when the Virgin Mary was begotten with Child it was by the Father and in no other way only as we were begotten. I will tell you the truth as it is in God. The world don’t know that Jesus Christ our Elder Brother was begotten by our Father in Heaven. Handle it was you please, it will either seal the damnation or salvation of man. He was begotten by the Father and not by the Holy Ghost.”

• Prophet Brigham Young, as quoted in the Wilford Woodruff’s Journal, April 9, 1852;

 

[NextElement]

Sigh… There is a difference between living like God and actually BECOMING a God! We as humans cannot, by definition, become a God… God is an omniscient being outside of time and our universe. God can become human (and he did), but not vice versa.

If the Mormon claims of God once being a man in another universe/planet are true, then he is by philosophical definition not God.

 

[iepuras]

If the Mormon claims of God once being a man in another universe/planet are true, then he is by philosophical definition not God.

This is why so many ex-Mormons become atheist or agnostic at best. They really have no idea who God is and many assume that Christians worship the same kind of god that Mormons worship.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Do you believe Christ was a God before he became human? Do you believe he was human and then ascended to Heaven as God?

That isn’t the issue. Orthodox Christians believe that Jesus Christ was God prior to His Incarnation, during, and after. He has always been God.

The actual issue that is being discussed is the belief, taught by various LDS prophets, apostles, and other leaders, as well as various LDS Church manuals and magazines, that the Father was a man that progressed to/achieved Godhood, meaning, He wasn’t always God (Joseph Smith himself said he would refute the idea that God was always God from all eternity), but had to achieve that state. Orthodox Christian beliefs surrounding the Incarnation of Jesus Christ have nothing to do with that, since we don’t believe that Jesus Christ progressed to/achieved Godhood, but has always been God, and never stopped being so.

 

[truthseeker32]

EvanFaust,

You must know that your arguments are outrageous. If I picked and choosed verses from the bible and then further picked and choosed how I interpret said verses as you are doing, I could argue that Scientology, Islam, or Hinduism is the most biblical religion.

This is the major problem of LDS apologetics. Rather than looking at the total narrative and theme of the scripture, and rather than letting scripture and tradition speak to you, you go looking for what you have already decided to believe in. It is like a historian or scientist deciding the outcome before they have even began research and testing.

I once again challenge you to seek after not what makes you feel good and comfortable, but what is true. After all, some of the greatest Christian figures didn’t have happy, comfortable lives.

As someone who has done extensive graduate work in early Christianity I can tell you a few things:

-LDS temple theology does not reflect Jewish temple theology.

-There was no early Christian group that looked like Mormonism.

-The idea that the philosophies of man corrupted Christianity is a silly argument perpetuated by anti-Christian critics that can be levelled just as easily at any faith. Mormonism, for instance, is an obvious product of its ideological environment. If you actually read the early church fathers you will find that they had plenty of criticisms to make against Hellenistic philosophy and that in many ways Mormonism resembles popular Hellenistic ideas early Christianity rejected (i.e. eternal universe, anthropomorphic gods).

I will pray that you see the light. I know many former Mormons who have and made their way into Orthodoxy or Catholicism. I hope you will someday as well.

 

[TexanKnight]

-LDS temple theology does not reflect Jewish temple theology.

-There was no early Christian group that looked like Mormonism.

I have had many Mormons make this claim. I have challenged each one to prove the claim…not a single one has been able to

 

[Alma147]

TexanKnight, are you aware that the Journal of Discourses has never been published by the LDS Church? It was produced by dissidents and ex-Mormons–many of whom were excommunicated for heresy. The problem with the quotes you provide is that there are also quotes where Brigham Young taught that Adam was created by God. Mormons don’t have to reject Brigham Young in rejecting those statements. Mormons only need to recognize that there are discrepancies in unofficial transcripts.

 

[TexanKnight]

TexanKnight, are you aware that the Journal of Discourses has never been published by the LDS Church? It was produced by dissidents and ex-Mormons–many of whom were excommunicated for heresy. The problem with the quotes you provide is that there are also quotes where Brigham Young taught that Adam was created by God. Mormons don’t have to reject Brigham Young in rejecting those statements. Mormons only need to recognize that there are discrepancies in unofficial transcripts.

Wrong. They are quotes from BY. They have NEVER been refuted. And actually, when I read them, they were very old volumes printed BY THE LDS CHURCH. Nice try…but you can’t fool a former Mormon Missionary who also served in the Bishopric

Refute the quotes. You can’t, so you try to attack the book they are from and cast doubt on me. It will not work

 

[RebeccaJ]

TexanKnight, are you aware that the Journal of Discourses has never been published by the LDS Church? It was produced by dissidents and ex-Mormons–many of whom were excommunicated for heresy. The problem with the quotes you provide is that there are also quotes where Brigham Young taught that Adam was created by God. Mormons don’t have to reject Brigham Young in rejecting those statements. Mormons only need to recognize that there are discrepancies in unofficial transcripts.

I thought Mormons taught Adam was created by Jesus and Young taught the Adam was the Father. Which is not problematic in a Mormon context of multiple Gods.

But you are wrong about the Journal of Discourses, it was a sanctioned publication of the LDS Church and widely quoted in current LDS Church material. (lmgtfy.com/?q=%22in+journal+of+discourses%22±search+site%3Alds.org)

 

[iepuras]

But you are wrong about the Journal of Discourses, it was a sanctioned publication of the LDS Church and widely quoted in current LDS Church material. (lmgtfy.com/?q=%22in+journal+of+discourses%22±search+site%3Alds.org)

Absolutely. If one looks at the sources used for the Teachings of the Prophets manuals in Relief Society and priesthood classes, they rely heavily on the Journal of Discourses for the earlier prophets.

So Alma147, are a bunch of dissidents and ex-Mormons putting together the Teachings of the Prophets manuals?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Absolutely. If one looks at the sources used for the Teachings of the Prophets manuals in Relief Society and priesthood classes, they rely heavily on the Journal of Discourses for the earlier prophets.

So Alma147, are a bunch of dissidents and ex-Mormons putting together the Teachings of the Prophets manuals?

I think Alma147 is confusing the JoD with “The Seer”, as what he presented is common Mormon refutation of “The Seer”. Of course, there is a problem with that refutation as well, particularly when it comes to the Adam/God doctrine of Young. “The Seer” also was a sanctioned publication of the LDS Church until it published against Young’s Adam/God doctrine, and then it was shut down by Young.

 

[twopekinguys]

TexanKnight, are you aware that the Journal of Discourses has never been published by the LDS Church? It was produced by dissidents and ex-Mormons–many of whom were excommunicated for heresy. The problem with the quotes you provide is that there are also quotes where Brigham Young taught that Adam was created by God. Mormons don’t have to reject Brigham Young in rejecting those statements. Mormons only need to recognize that there are discrepancies in unofficial transcripts.

You’re splitting hairs here.

This is from BYU’s own website. (Emphasis mine)

The Journal of Discourses was a sixteen-page semimonthly subscription publication privately printed in Liverpool, England, in 1854-1886. ******It served as the printed word of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, particularly for members who had no access to the Salt Lake City Deseret News. ******

and

these speeches were not always considered to be official statements of doctrine.

Please notice the subtle side-step here. Evidently some of the things contained ARE considered doctrine. They are just skirting the issue by not stating which ones.

Maybe you can tell us which of the statements and declarations are not considered doctrine since BYU and the current prophets can’t seem to tell anyone.

 

[iepuras]

Reading the ritual comments I almost burped up my dinner.

Would the ex-Mormons please share examples of LDS rituals…and what they are rooted in.



Some popcorn may settle my stomach.

The temple ceremonies are the most ritualistic aspect of LDS worship. The ceremonies are very much rooted in Freemasonry. Joseph Smith introduced the endowment ceremony less than 2 months after being initiated as a master mason.

The current endowment ceremony is less like Freemasonry than before but many of the most obvious masonic influences are still there. The Salt Lake temple has many masonic symbols carved on the outside including handshakes, the all-seeing eye, the compass, square, sun, moon and stars.

Some of the rituals taken from Freemasonry include the washing and anointing of various parts of the body. Today, the washings and anointings are done on the head symbolically. There have been a lot of changes on how the washings and anointings were done over the years.

The endowment ceremony includes a narrative of the creation and fall of Adam and Eve. The masons have a different narrative; however Adam is a part of their narrative. After the narrative, the LDS temple patrons are given the tokens and signs of the priesthood. The tokens and signs are exact or very similar to the tokens and signs in Freemasonry. Also, the endowment ceremony included blood oaths and penalties, which are very similar to the Freemasons, until 1990. The Freemason ceremony also included penalties, which were removed in 1986.

Other similarities include the donning of an apron, knocking with a mallet three times, talking to someone through a veil. Prior to 1990, the LDS did the five points of fellowship through the veil. The five points of fellowship were taken from the Freemasons.

Interestingly, the LDS church noticed in the 1980’s that while membership numbers were growing and attendance on Sunday meetings was stable, temple attendance was dropping. The LDS church did a survey that included questions related to temple worship. They found that many people found the rituals uncomfortable. They ended up removing the penalties, five points of fellowship and the pastor (in the narrative) who worked with Satan. They also changed the washings and anointings in 2005 to be symbolic.

Revelation to change the temple rituals following a survey.

You can get more information regarding specifics at the link below.

mormonthink.com/temple.htm

 

[twopekinguys]

The Catholic Church never inspired me. Rituals, . .

You realize of course that what the mormon church calls baptism, anointings, sealings, and every other thing that goes on in the temple (which is masonic in nature) are rituals right?

 

[FathersKnowBest]

Do you believe Christ was a God before he became human? Do you believe he was human and then ascended to Heaven as God?

Whether you like it or not…Christ is a God with a resurrected human body. He lived a human experience went back to heaven with that body as God.

You must be referring to Isaiah…here it goes.

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and **beside me there is no God**.

Passages such as Isa 44:6,8 and 45:5,21 that read “no God beside me” or a variation of that phrase are traditionally interpreted by mainstream anti-Mormons as meaning that other than Yahweh no form of deity exists at all, including exalted men. This type of interpretation at first seems obvious, but after considering similar passages in other parts of scripture it is clear that this interpretation is incorrect.

For example, Isaiah 47:8-10 depicts the city of Babylon as saying:

Therefore hear now this, thou that art given to pleasures, that dwellest carelessly, that sayest in thine heart, I am, and **none else beside me**; I shall not sit as a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children: 

For thou hast trusted in thy wickedness: thou hast said, None seeth me. Thy wisdom and thy knowledge, it hath perverted thee; and thou hast said in thine heart, I am, and **none else beside me. **

These passages use the exact same phrase as Isa 44 and 45, yet they certainly do not exclude the existence of any city other than Babylon. The city of Ninevah would be very upset if this were the case, as Zephaniah depicts Ninevah in Zephaniah 2:15 as saying:

This is the rejoicing city that dwelt carelessly, that said in her heart, I am, and there is **none beside me**: how is she become a desolation, a place for beasts to lie down in! every one that passeth by her shall hiss, and wag his hand.

Scripture here is showing that these cities are saying something that is wrong.

You are mistakenly saying that since these cities are wrong, then God must be wrong also.

Well, I believe in God and what He says. I don’t care that other people or things are depicted in scripture as being wrong.

 

[TexanKnight]

You’re splitting hairs here.

This is from BYU’s own website. (Emphasis mine)

The Journal of Discourses was a sixteen-page semimonthly subscription publication privately printed in Liverpool, England, in 1854-1886. ******It served as the printed word of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, particularly for members who had no access to the Salt Lake City Deseret News. ******

and

these speeches were not always considered to be official statements of doctrine.

Please notice the subtle side-step here. Evidently some of the things contained ARE considered doctrine. They are just skirting the issue by not stating which ones.

Maybe you can tell us which of the statements and declarations are not considered doctrine since BYU and the current prophets can’t seem to tell anyone.

Except Brigham said what HE preached WAS ALWAYS doctrine…

now, if Mormons want to say he was wrong…and therefore not a prophet…I am ok with that

 

[evanfaust]

The Catholic Church never inspired me. Rituals, .

You realize of course that what the mormon church calls baptism, anointings, sealings, and every other thing that goes on in the temple (which is masonic in nature) are rituals right?

I already answered that question before…