Convert Catechizing Cradle Catholics

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Evangelization is being stressed more now to Catholics, young and old, including evangelizing on the internet. As a local pastor, Father Riccardo, put it: "If you’re a Catholic and you’re not out evangelizing others, why not?’

The last 40 years has seen Catholic values mocked - unlike 40 years ago. We didn’t all go to the same Church, and not all the people in my neighborhood were Catholic, but there was a shared living out of our Catholic values. Today, that’s been drowned out by a media that mocks Church teaching, that mocks Christianity/belief in God in general, and celebrates lifestyles that are immoral, scandalous and obscene.

Peace,
Ed
I’m glad that you brought this up, Ed. I attended a large gathering at our parish hall last night and listened to Joseph Backholm of the Family Policy Institute of WA. who encouraged us to sign the referendum opposing Governor Gregoire’s signing of “the gay marriage law” that would redefine marriage. Mr. Backholm gave a wonderful talk defending the Church’s teaching but he made the point that gay marriage is not really the issue here. What is really at stake is the freedom to practice one’s religion. He cited several examples in our state as well as throughout the country where members of the church have been brought to trial or forced to close their operations for refusing to do something that goes against their faith. For example, there was a family who owned a phamacy that spent the past several years in litigation for refusing to sell abortifacients. Catholic Orphanages have shut down rather than allow gay couples to adopt. And so on. The time has come where we are being called to stand up for what we believe or else our freedom to practice our religion will be taken from us.
 
You might be surprised though that such person did have a conversion experience, even though they didn’t convert into Catholicism. For example, and not trying to brag here, my zeal in our Church is more visible than the others who are cradle Ukrainian Catholics I come across with. Would you consider me a convert coming from the Roman Catholic Church? No. But I will say the experience is a conversion experience. In many aspects it does feel like I found a new faith and grew into it. Some cradle Catholics grow up not knowing their own faith at all. And sometimes that point that they rediscover their faith is a conversion experience.
You’ve confused me with the first part about the Ukrainains but I agree with your second point: everyone who cares about their Catholic faith has experienced an interior conversion of heart in response to God’s call.

I was simply defending people raised Catholic, from this generalization:
There’s something about that conscious decision and desire to pursue the faith that is missing/lacking in cradle Catholics.
I don’t think you meant any offense, though. It sounds like you use the term “cradle Catholic” specifically to refer to the bored, uninterested kind of Catholic, whereas the term simply refers to people raised in the Catholic faith, at large.
 
This is all great advice and should be followed (please, please teach them about Adoration), however, if you are in the US and are going to be teaching in a PSR/CCD/Catholic school setting you will need to use a book from the USCCB’s approved list. Sadly, for reasons beyond me, the Baltimore Catechism is not on that list. That said, you can use the Baltimore Catechism as a supplement.

As an aside, all the religious teachers I know rave about the substance of the Baltimore and complain that most other books are all fluff.
I wasn’t aware that the USCCB controlled catechesis to such an extent, wow. Well, if my future children can’t be taught from the Baltimore Catechism at church they’ll get it at home. What is the USCCB thinking?
 
They do, to be sure. But I will add that if you’ve ever met a devout “cradle Catholic” who lived and breathed the Faith and the culture it created from daipers up, before the revolution of the 1970s, you’ll find something very special. I think it’s ever more inspiring than the zeal of a convert but it’s rarer now.
I actually do know “cradle Catholics” who are very devout. I know an Irish woman who just died who had great tragedy in her life, born a Catholic in Ireland. She was 82 when she died. She had a total of 11 pregnancies with 4 miscarriages, two children who died in child birth, and two who died as adults. She was diagnosed with breast cancer when her last child was born. Yet she was always upbeat and positive. How? She had a very deep devotion to Our Lady. She said that when she looked at the suffering Our Lady went through, she felt anything she suffered didn’t compare. And she said Our Lady always comforted her.

That is the common factor with all of the devout cradle Catholics that I know. They have all a deep devotion to Mary and to the Rosary. Think that means something? 😉
 
I happened to notice that our more well informed and practicing Catholics more often than not tend to be converts and reverts to the Faith rather than actual cradle Catholics. This was originally an objection held by a Protestant friend of mine who says that Catholics in his life never seemed to “know about salvation.” While going to confession one time after finishing my Rites of Initiation, I was discussing the Real Presence with a 60 year-old Latino Catholic behind me. She literally said that she’s been taking communion for over 40 years without actually knowing anything about the Real Presence!! It just seems like maybe because cradle Catholics do not discover or rediscover the Truth of the Catholic Church, maybe they just take it for granted as something they’re raised with. I’m going to be teaching Catechumens who are middle-schoolers next year. I’m a very good teacher, I’m enthusiastic, passionate, well informed, and I seek to resolve the issue of poory catechized Catechumens. Does anyone have anyomore advice in doing this? How do we make top-notch Catholics with everything we can do on our behalf?

Thanks, God Bless… 👍
Praise God! You are so needed! The only way to teach the truth about Jesus and His Catholic Church is to educate yourself. Read, read, and then read some more. I haven’t read all the posts, but here are a few links and suggested reading to help make top-notch Catholics on fire with The Holy Spirit!

Because you will be teaching middle-school level and will be helping to nurture their relationship with The Holy Spirit:

ewtn.com/devotionals/pentecost/pent1.htm

Because every life that God created truly is a work of art, unique and unrepeatable, even at the very moment of conception:

melissaohden.com/

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2TBIND.HTM

Because everyone should know that Jesus meant what He said in John 6:35-69:

therealpresence.org/eucharst/realpres/a12.html

Some Good Reads:

Catholic Christianity: A Complete Catechism of Catholic Beliefs Based on the Catechism of the Catholic Church by Peter Kreeft

Search and Rescue: How to Bring Your Friends and Loved Ones Into - Or Back Into - The Church by Patrick Madrid

Ignatius Catholic Study Bible: New Testament by Scott Hahn

Good Luck and Peace 2U2
 
Converts make the most amazing Catholics. That is for sure. There’s something about that conscious decision and desire to pursue the faith that is missing/lacking in cradle Catholics.
Me too. . .I love to read or listen to convert stories. I always want to know WHY?

I think that the term “cradle” Catholic just implies that you received the Sacrament of Baptism as an infant not that you were “born” Catholic. Were not born any religion. But like Jesus says, Don’t hinder the little ones. Let them come to me. Love it! Great article on Infant Baptism:

catholic.com/tracts/infant-baptism

I also think cradle Catholics too make the most amazing Catholics. There is something about being so in love with Jesus and His Church and teachings, the Mass, etc, that conscious decision and desire to NOT be led to pursue a faith that is missing/lacking like in many other religions.
 
They do, to be sure. But I will add that if you’ve ever met a devout “cradle Catholic” who lived and breathed the Faith and the culture it created from daipers up, before the revolution of the 1970s, you’ll find something very special. I think it’s ever more inspiring than the zeal of a convert but it’s rarer now.
👍
 
The time has come where we are being called to stand up for what we believe or else our freedom to practice our religion will be taken from us.
Yes, this is no time to be intimidated by the devil and his tactics to draw people away from the one, true Church, the Catholic Church. We should be proud of the truth that is only taught and practiced in its fullness in the Catholic Church.
 
I’m glad that you brought this up, Ed. I attended a large gathering at our parish hall last night and listened to Joseph Backholm of the Family Policy Institute of WA. who encouraged us to sign the referendum opposing Governor Gregoire’s signing of “the gay marriage law” that would redefine marriage. Mr. Backholm gave a wonderful talk defending the Church’s teaching but he made the point that gay marriage is not really the issue here. What is really at stake is the freedom to practice one’s religion. He cited several examples in our state as well as throughout the country where members of the church have been brought to trial or forced to close their operations for refusing to do something that goes against their faith. For example, there was a family who owned a phamacy that spent the past several years in litigation for refusing to sell abortifacients. Catholic Orphanages have shut down rather than allow gay couples to adopt. And so on. The time has come where we are being called to stand up for what we believe or else our freedom to practice our religion will be taken from us.
You’re welcome. The Bible tells that with wisdom, we should get understanding. We should know why the Church teaches what it teaches and be able to explain it to others.

bible.cc/proverbs/4-7.htm

I think it’s safe to say that 40 years of hearing: “Leave us alone. We’ll do what we want!” has led to not only leave them alone but accept their sin into our daily lives. Watch it in movies (The Kids are Alright), and on TV (Glee). Starting in 1968, with the publication of Humanae Vitae, the distortion began of what it meant to date and get married - for life.

The Dictatorship of Relativism recognizes no definitive truths, eg. “What’s good for you might be bad for me. And what’s bad for me might be good for you.”

So-called same-sex marriage occurs only through the wills of politicians and judges, not the people. It was voted down in every state, and twice in California.

We are all sinners. These people are not our personal enemies but they have been led astray.

A few helpful words from Archbishop Chaput:

archden.org/index.cfm/ID/278/iArticleID/46/ipageContentCategoryID/278

Let’s be blunt. In our zeal to love our neighbor and to welcome the stranger, we were lied to, plain and simple, and the flock was scattered. The devil’s greatest weapon is deception. To offer us something that is nicely packaged that sounds good or true when it is none of those things.

We must speak the truth with charity in public. Our silence, in my view, was gradually conditioned into us. “It’s a personal decision (abortion).” “They’re not hurting anyone (same-sex marriage).”

Pope Benedict has told us to avoid being Indifferent as our society has been reformed into the image and likeness of (and I mean the dictionary definitions) perverts, deviants and anarchists.

It’s OK to steal music, movies and books on the internet (file sharing). That’s wrong and anarchistic.

Any kind of sexual behavior is OK.

Any type of living arrangement is a family - without taking into account what a family actually is.

Yes, we all fall short and stumble, but we must continue our journey toward Christ, not away from Him.

Peace,
Ed
 
The converts catechize so-called cradle Catholics because the converts are getting information about the faith taught to them as adults. They are getting more logical explanations, along with reference materials, that they can study and see how much sense it makes.

They aren’t being taught like some of us cradle Catholics were: Thirty or so kids in a classroom, with a lone Sister (if you were, or weren’t, lucky, depending on your point of view,) trying to maintain control of the classroom and having to teach to the level of the grade she is teaching. No flying erasers, no stick fights in the back of the class, no class clown, no dire threats of having to write out a catechism question and answer five hundred times if you were disobedient. No exasperated explanations of “take it as an article of faith.” (BTW–yours truly had to write out the question and answer “Did God abandon man after Adam fell into sin?” one hundred times after being caught chewing gum in class as a fifth grader!)

Basically, if you went to Catholic school, or public school with release-time CCD, you got prepared for the reception of the Sacraments. There wasn’t much in terms of actual theology, scriptural study, or the like. As a matter of fact, the last few weeks of sacrament prep classes was learning the songs that you would be singing in the particular liturgical rite, practicing walking in procession, and rehearsal. I think I could recite from memory the songs we sang at First Communion and Confirmation, but to be honest, I’d have to look up the twelve fruits of the Holy Spirit!

So, as you can very easily see, the adult converts/reverts basically got better instruction than we children who grew up Catholic! It doesn’t surprise me in the least that converts and reverts make, if not better Catholics, certainly more knowledgeable ones!
 
Get the Baltimore Catechism. I think Volume #2 was intended for that age group. If they know that book, they’ll know the Faith.

That, and get them all an inexpensive Rosary and teach them to pray it.

If you can, get a priest to come and teaching them about the Blessed Sacrament and offer Adoration and Benediction.
Let’s not overestimate the tools either. That can lead to disappointment, if it does not work the way that one hopes it will work.

I have been teaching Grade 6 CCD for several years. I teach a course that I created called, Christology From Genesis to the Middle Ages. I use the bible, my notes from the seminary, my knowledge of theology, Church History, the Fathers of the Church, exegesis, the CCC, and the writings of Francis and Bonaventure.

At the end of the course, the kids know who Jesus is, what the Catholic Church says about Jesus Christ and what Jesus Christ says about the Trinity through Revelation, dogma, sacraments, tradition and the Magisterium.

At the end of the year, the students are asked to evaluate their course. This last evaluation a student wrote the following.

**He [the teacher] connected to each student by not just saying; “Oh well you should believe in Jesus because he did lots of good things and he is God.” No way! That is not Brother Jay’s style. He would literally show us where in the Bible the Old Testament prophesies predicting a Messiah and Redemption would come true in the New Testament. We learned about how Jesus was actually raised as a practicing Jew. Most Catholics know about the first Christmas but very few know anything about the second or third Christmases. Brother Jay however, thought it was very important for us to know about how Jesus lived his life long before being baptized in the Jordan River to how he continues to live in the Church all the way up to the saints. Overall Brother Jay has had a large affect on my spiritual life.

[He goes on to talk about what he learned regarding ministry]

I one day hope to volunteer and contribute to one of these beneficial ministries for teenagers. **

One has to establish a connection with the student. It’s important to use reason enlightened by faith. Memorization alone does not guarantee faith. You will want to show how Christ and his Church continue to guide men and women to the Father. The best way to do this is through very concrete examples, especially Scripture and hagiography. As you navigate through the Scripture, each piece will naturally point you to a dogma, sacrament, moral law, a tradition and a mystery. For example, one cannot speak about the Creation without discussing the Prologue of John and the Canticle of the Creatures of St. Francis of Assisi. They all make a statement about the nature of God and the nature of man. They show you how the hypostatic union draws those two natures into one person to restore order to the universe.

Praying the rosary is fine, if you lead the students to understand who Mary is. For this, you have to walk them through the story of Eve, Isaiah’s prophecies, Luke’s infancy narratives, Revelation’s allegories on the Church, the Eastern Fathers who will unwrap the mystery of the Theotokos and the Immaculate Conception and finally the Dominican school of the Middle Ages.

If you can find a priest who knows how to teach, getting one to speak about the Blessed Sacrament and Adoration is great. It adds diversity to the class and exposes the students to priests. If your parish priest does not have the gift of teaching, he’s not the person you want. A degree in Divinity is not enough to deliver a message. There is a need for two things: knowledge of the subject and communication skills.

The parish where I teach CCC has five holy priests. None of them could teach “Mary Had A Little Lamb” if you held a gun to their heads. On the other side, we have a deacon who is a natural teacher. Always look for the person with knowledge and the gift of teaching to help you, not the person with the collar or the habit.

I hope this helps you.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
was curious after reading this post
I would assume the Baltimore Catechism does not need to be on the list because it is a primary source of Church doctrine, and the list is for supplemental sources.

In a similar fashion, the list excluded the list of approved Catholic Bibles, but appeared to have a bible study guide. The Catholic bible being another primary source that does not need to be mentioned on lists.
This is all great advice and should be followed (please, please teach them about Adoration), however, if you are in the US and are going to be teaching in a PSR/CCD/Catholic school setting you will need to use a book from the USCCB’s approved list. Sadly, for reasons beyond me, the Baltimore Catechism is not on that list. That said, you can use the Baltimore Catechism as a supplement.

As an aside, all the religious teachers I know rave about the substance of the Baltimore and complain that most other books are all fluff.
 
was curious after reading this post
I would assume the Baltimore Catechism does not need to be on the list because it is a primary source of Church doctrine, and the list is for supplemental sources.

In a similar fashion, the list excluded the list of approved Catholic Bibles, but appeared to have a bible study guide. The Catholic bible being another primary source that does not need to be mentioned on lists.
The Baltimore Catechism did not make that list for two reasons.
  1. Everything in the Baltimore Catechism if found in the Catholic Catechism for the United States, which is a teaching version of the CCC.
  2. The Vatican has many issues with the Baltimore Catechism, because at the last minute, the US Bishops decided to use a source that was not approved by the Vatican, as the basis for the Baltimore Catechism. The Baltimore Catechism never got the endorsement from the Vatican. I’m trying to remember if they wanted Bellarmine’s catechism and ended up with Butler’s or the other way around. In any case, there was such disagreement that there are several catechism with the name Baltimore Catechism. The newest one is the St. Joseph Edition, which is not a bad one. It has much more than the Baltimore Catechism that was used in many dioceses during the 1960s. This latest edition is organized like the original, but with documents from the different councils and references to the different Fathers of the Church and scripture, much like the CCC, but in simpler English.
In any case, the Vatican never endorsed the Baltimore Catechism, because there were so many with the same name, but they were different, that none was adopted as the official catechism for the USA. In reality, the differences are minor. It’s more a matter of organization and language. The content is the same.

I like the St. Joseph Edition and would recommend it to any catechist who does not have a degree in theology. It’s concise, but gives you resources to expand so that you’re not always doing the question and answer routine. The student can actually do research, without the need of being guided by a professional theologian who would know where to go look. The book tells you where to look.

I don’t use it, because I have access to a very extensive theological collection. But most catechists don’t. This is a perfect resource book to have in your bag.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
I had never heard the term “cradle” Catholic until joining this website, but I guess if you use it to describe someone who was born Catholic, that’s not a bad term.

Why would someone not know the finer points of their faith? It’s easy… not all of us went to Catholic schools because our parents couldn’t afford it. Not all of us went to church EVERY Sunday, because some of our parents felt that they were forced to go to church, and they didn’t want to force us.

We believe in God. We believe in Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. We know the stories, as we were raised with them, and feel them in our hearts… but that doesn’t mean we can tell you exactly where in the Bible they are located.

I’ve always believed that once Catholic, always Catholic.
If you stop going to church, and do things that you KNOW are wrong, but do them anyway, you are a ‘bad Catholic’
If you only go on C&E, you’re a ‘C&E Catholic’, but still a Catholic.

I read all the time the dismay for those who call themselves Catholic, but don’t live a Catholic lifestyle… pick a thread, you’re going to read about it.

Why? Well, like me, all of the values were instilled in me as a child, as a teen… ‘Be Good’, ‘Abstain’, ‘Don’t Drink’, ‘Don’t mess with boys’,‘Respect your elders’,‘Be polite’ ‘Be modest’… the list goes on…

But the “Why” of those things was never attributed to “BECAUSE WE ARE CATHOLIC” with explanation afterwards.

Perhaps this is my own situation, but I gather there are many who could relate.

So why, you ask? Well… that’s my why.
This is really a good post because it captures what exactly goes on. And so you learn all these behavioral things but not the reasoning for them and not exactly where they come from. You just absorb them. And then people think they’re “good” people and don’t attribute their lives to God. They say “yes, maam” and please and don’t steal and they think that’s it, they’re “good people,” and that’s all there is to it. [And then they start to think because they are such good people, that they can decide what goodness is, and we’re off to the races. :eek: ]

In other cases, sometimes people are told that the reason they don’t swear or cheat or whatever is that they’re Catholic and then they think that religion is only about morals. They miss the entire part about prayer, and salvation and God’s goodness!! :eek:

Of course the answer to this isn’t to soft-pedal morals, but rather to put the primary emphasis where it belongs and then let morals flow from it, as they’re supposed to do. Religion is more than a list of “dos” and “don’ts.” But what is it really? And why do we do the things we do? These are what people need to talk about in religion classes and catechesis sessions.

And we need to get far more specific about references in scripture, the catechism and so on. People should know where things come from and be able to indentify ideas and trains of thought in the scriptures, catechism, church teachings, etc. They need to have real things to point to, rather than a) just having to regurgitate what you tell them, or b) make up some emotional or fantasy thing in a discussion group just to keep the discussion going or avoid “checking out” of the discussion. This discussion group can be a decent method but it’s overused and very, very poorly used in the Church in most cases.
 
Using discussion groups can work for some things, but there are a lot of strategies for this, and most people don’t know how to use the method with skill, so it doesn’t usually do what they want it to do. It often has unintended consequences–lots of them–and they can be quite negative for learning if this method is used in a casual or non-optimized manner. Yet, this is usually the method of choice in adult catechesis sessions.

Just lecturing doesn’t work very well either. Most people actually retain less than 10% of what they hear in a live lecture, although many adults like lecture because it makes them feel like they’re learning something and they don’t have to work very much. They especially like it when it’s a “talk” by someone they consider an authority. But that doesn’t mean they’ll necessarily retain much of it. In fact, research shows that they probably won’t.

Kids generally aren’t fond of lecture. With kids, it’s important to make a connection with them and find a variety of methods that work with your group, and emphasize details and positive movement forward towards specific goals.
 
I’m a convert to Catholicism from evangelical Protestantism.

My suggestion, as a convert, is that the BEST way to catechize, especially young people, is to LIVE OUT YOUR FAITH in real life. Be holy, be loving, be humble, and be joyful, and above all, do NOT be a hypocrite and live a double life and be caught in public sin after all your fine words and teachings. It’s got to be very real, not just book stuff. ANY religion will offer excellent book stuff. You have to live it–it has to be real.

Probably the main reason I converted to Catholicism is because of the faithful witness from over the years of Catholics that I knew in my everyday life on the job and in the skating rink and in my community who truly lived a holy and upright life, but who were also engaging, exciting, and fun to be with, passionate about the Lord Jesus, the Word of God, and their Church, and utterly trustworthy. In these Catholics, I saw people I could trust–I saw Jesus. I wanted to be like them–I wanted to be like Jesus.

I would agree with those who say be careful trying to catechize the way “people catechized back in the old days.” You have to remember that things were very different in our culture and society back then, and there were not so many pressures on children and teenagers to go wrong. Heck, even back when I was growing up, EVERYONE in my school was either Christian or Jewish, and all were white, middle-class, and of European descent. We were all coming from pretty much the same place when it came to behavioral norms and values. Back then, no one would have dared to take a second cookie after dinner without asking Mom’s permission first, and she probably would have said no, and we wouldn’t have complained, because everyone’s mom would have said no! The very idea of watching porn on a television set didn’t exist! Computers didn’t exist, at least portable home computers!

Now there are many children and teenagers in all the schools, including the best Catholic schools (which usually offer superior athletics, arts, and academics) who have upbringings in many different religions that are not Christian or Jewish. Islam is especially common in the higher-level academic schools. There are children and teenagers of every ethnicity and culture and race, and many different worldviews and philosophies are represented. All of this influences our children, teenagers, and adults. They won’t react to ancient teaching methods the way people back THEN reacted.

Also, we must never forget the tremendous influence of the media, especially the internet. This has created a whole new type of communication. Kids especially communicate in “bites” (or maybe I should say, “bytes”). They won’t listen to lectures, unless the lectures mean that they will make more money.
 
Many of us old geezers were taught with the Baltimore Catechism, and were very well grounded in the faith because of it. Since the church has in general stopped using it, Catholics barely know their faith. Is there a connection? I think so.

There is a very holy priest who pastors a church in New Jersey and often says the TLM here in New York who uses the Baltimore Catechism almost exclusively in his religion classes with the young people. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Baltimore Catechism. It is a wonderful spiritual tool.
 
was curious after reading this post
I would assume the Baltimore Catechism does not need to be on the list because it is a primary source of Church doctrine, and the list is for supplemental sources.

In a similar fashion, the list excluded the list of approved Catholic Bibles, but appeared to have a bible study guide. The Catholic bible being another primary source that does not need to be mentioned on lists.
The list is of approved minor catechisms I believe, so the Holy Bible wouldn’t be on there. The Baltimore Catechism is a minor catechism and not a major catechism, like the CCC, so it’s exclusion was purposeful.
 
Brother JR makes a very good point: In order to teach something, anything, including the Faith, you have to be able to actually teach! The teacher can’t just stand up there and dispense a variety of facts. Those facts must correlate, must build on each other, and to really get the students to understand the subject, the teacher must somehow awaken the average student’s intellectual curiosity concerning them.

Those who teach adult converts are at a strong advantage over those who teach school children. The adults want to be there, they want to learn about the faith, and that fact is usually the result of many months, if not years, of soul-searching. They’re invested in the quest. They’re perfectly capable and willing to do some independent study, some thought and meditation on the subject at hand, and an idea that this material they’re learning will prove to be a lodestar for them for the rest of their lives. They have “skin in the game.”

The kids may or may not be that interested, and in any case, they’re not as capable as the adults of more sophisticated study and reading. Quite a few of them are there because their parents want them there to complete preparation for receiving the Sacraments. They get bored easily. If they are on release-time from public school, they just escaped their regular class, and are whooping it up with a sense of freedom. That’s an incredible obstacle for a lone teacher, who is probably a volunteer without professional teaching experience, to surmount. Easily, a quarter of the one-hour class can be devoted to taking attendance and getting the troops to hold it down to a loud roar. Standing up front and droning out a whole list of facts isn’t going to cut it.
 
My advice is the have your students watch the Catholicism series with Father Barron . It brought me back to the faith with a passion. Scott Hahn is another great teacher, as well as Tim Gray. Peace be with you I know you will do well.
 
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