Converting Between Religions

[puzzleannie]

silverwings:

I am. I am continueing to read my Bible and I attend Mass once in awhile but alot of what I hear from that is we are all going to hell and there is nothing we can do about it. .

if this is what you are hearing at Mass, you must not be attending a Catholic Church. If it is what you are reading in the bible, you need to be part of a Catholic bible study because your interpretation is way off the mark.

 

[Gnosis]

Initially I left Catholicism in pursuit of Protestantism…only to leave Christianity all together as I taught myself in Buddhism. However, as time progressed I found there were elements of both Catholicism and Christianity that all together still rung true to me.

I can not call myself, by any conventional definition, a Catholic or a Christian. In my room I have an altar dedicated to the Buddha, Mary, Christ, and the Hindu gods Krishna and Ganesha. I read from the Hindu Bhavagad Gita, the Buddhist Dhammapada, the Gnostic Gospels, the Qu’ran and, of course, the Bible. The more I learn about other religions the more I am fascinated by the different perspectives they offer on God and the many diverse and beautiful ways they express devotion to Him.

My point is that (though many people will oppose this) just because you are pursuing the Wiccan religion does not mean that you have to fully discard Catholicism. You can freely take part in both. Every religion is flawed, there is no “all or nothing” scenario. Religion is, most importantly, an individual journey and every person, regardless of what they say they believe, relate to God and understand God in a slightly different way than the next. Some beliefs are incompatible with others, but again, religion is so much more than concepts that we hold to be true. One’s faith is a living, fluid, breathing reality, don’t allow instituitons or the lines that other human beings have drawn to limit your own experiences.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Gnosis:

My point is that (though many people will oppose this) just because you are pursuing the Wiccan religion does not mean that you have to fully discard Catholicism. You can freely take part in both.

Not according to Catholic teaching, so please do not delude someone into thinking they can be a Catholic and a Wiccan.

silverwings,

I encourage you to do some reading up on the neo-pagan religions. All of the revived neo-pagan religions are man-made, and not one of them has any resemblence (if it does it’s superficial) to the past Celtic / Druidic religions. Most has been lost about them, and I encourage you to keep learning about your Faith. 6 years ago I left Catholicism for “Christianity”, and came back 2 years later after I had been catechizing myself on the Catholic religion. Read the Catechism, the lives of the mystic saints such as John of the Cross, Francis of Assisi, Mother Theresa, etc. Mysticism and Catholicism do go hand in hand, but not Wicca + Catholicism.

God bless,

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

silverwings,

I encourage you to get some books by Evelyn Underhill. She wrote a lot about Mystical Catholicism.

Check out her Foundation here:

evelynunderhill.org/her_work/writings_by.shtml

God bless,

 

[silverwings]

As I said earlier, my decision will not be made lightly or anytime soon. I will study Catholicism and Wicca as my college studies permit during free times, which is very little at the moment due to upcoming finals. For now all I am learning of Wicca is its history. The current lessons are centered on the different holidays and how they came to be. Peer pressue definitely does not drive me to change, and this situation is no different.If I do change I see more need for me to be absolutely sure of my decision. I knwo of one who had her life threatened just because she was Wiccan. I have always loved Nature and the peace and serenity I find within myself when I surround myself with Nature. Feminism, Mary is a very strong woman and role model who deserves the respect she is given. But I would hope that I can find strength in myself before I need look to another woman such as Mary. Power, if it is power to wield over others then no, definitly not. No human should have that power. But power over myself. Life has been extremely trying over the past year and a half, but I looked to myself to control it, not a Creator. Although I have never, nor will I ever, doubt the existence of the Creator. The Church I am attending is indeed a Catholic Church in walking distance, it is also the only one within an hour’s drive. I have not returned fro almost two months now. I have attended other services with Christian friends but those pushed me away even more than the Mass I had attended. I have my Bible and some daily readings which I read as often as I find time for. I guess my only question left unanswered at themoment is how will my Christian family and friends react if I tell then that I am Wiccan? I am dependent on my parents for assitance with college tuition. Financially I can start taking some of the burden next fall, but not yet. Will they withdraw their support? I cannot make it with out them and I have so many dreams about a career that I have had since childhood. Thanks for all advice and the link on mystical Catholicism. I will take it into consideration as I study.

 

[Aurora25]

For now all I am learning of Wicca is its history.

That shouldn’t take too long. I hope you’re not reading any revisionist history. It’s becoming less and less common as people are becoming more educated about the subject, but there are still people (especially newbies) who cling to the false notion that Wicca is ancient. “Wicca for the rest of us” is a good website that outlines some of the myths about Wicca (in case you’re interested).

I guess my only question left unanswered at themoment is how will my Christian family and friends react if I tell then that I am Wiccan?

I suspect they would be hurt and disappointed. When I told my family, my mother cried and my father looked as if someone had died. It was not my proudest moment.

Honestly, it does sounds like you’re leaning toward Wicca at this point. I just want to caution you that Wicca can be a gateway to real darkness. After I had moved beyond the fluffbunny phase, I started exploring Wicca’s dark side – the “misunderstood” dark gods and goddesses and the darker aspects of nature. I found a great kinship with Hecate and took comfort in the dark. I started exploring other occult paths: traditional witchcraft, thelema, chaos magick, and finally satanism and other LHP. I never would have dreamed that I would go so far. It happened so gradually, slowly degrading my moral compass, and I didn’t even notice until I was in deep. Just be careful. The occult changes you, mind and soul, and it’s never for the better.

Another thing I’ve noticed about the pagan community in general is that they never seem to be very successful in life. They tend to be the underdogs, the outsiders of society. I don’t know anyone whose life was made better by the occult, whether they practiced something as light as Wicca, or one the deeper occult traditions. The fruits of the occult tend to be lonliness, delusion, and depression. I know too many people whose lives were destroyed because of the occult. It’s just not worth it.

 

[Chele]

I know that my post is one of many similarly written about on this post, but I would like to throw in my two bits.
I feel that if one feels to convert to any faith one must first, Study, then Ponder the words, and Finally Ask God. If it is true or if you need to convert then allow God to tell you. God can tell you better than I can or anyone else can. I can tell you have doubts. Always look to see if your religion encourages or discourages communing with god in Prayer. Prayer on any topic will give you the insight to see what is true.

I myself have grown up in my religion, but i am still a convert. I had to ask the lord of the Truthfulness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and he let me know that it was correct. If any of you feel that growing up as a member of a religion makes you a convert to that religion, consider how Jesus told Peter in Luke 22:32 “When ye are converted Strengthen thy bretheren.” Peter even having been with Jesus! having said that Jesus was the Christ through his own personal testimony! was not yet converted. He later did become converted and he became my favorite apostle.
Become a convert to whatever religion the Lord indicates and strive for your testimony.

 

[the_phoenix]

silverwings:

Going to Church and Confession feel more like chores than something that has any meaning.

Dear silverwings,

Doing something that feels like a chore out of love for God is precious, beautiful, and the most meaningful thing you can do.

~~ the phoenix

 

[the_phoenix]

silverwings:

I have always loved Nature and the peace and serenity I find within myself when I surround myself with Nature.

St. Francis is legendary for his love of nature and joyous gratitude to God for it. I share in a small way that same love and thankfulness … experiencing the outdoors through birdwatching, horseback riding, nature photography. Sometimes the beauty that God paints for my camera to record brings me to the edge of tears.

A few years back I was unemployed for quite a while. On a beautiful spring day, I decided I’d put in enough time job hunting and could not resist going on a nature walk. All my t-shirts were dirty except for my Catholic one with a picture of the Eucharist on the back. Since we were experiencing a heat wave, I almost couldn’t wear it, thinking that it wouldn’t be reverent at all for me to get all sweaty in a shirt with an image of Jesus printed on it! But then I decided to just wear the shirt, “After all, I’m going alone to the woods. Who’ll be around to see?”

It being spring warbler migration season, I was on the lookout for these small visiting birds, each one rare and beautiful like a jewel. Strangely enough, one particular tree seemed hugely attractive to the warblers, who flocked to it, flitting around its branches, singing and calling. When I got closer to the tree, I saw someone had carved the following into it in huge letters along with a heart. “JESUS LOVES YOU.”

Well, Someone sure saw my Jesus t-shirt !!! And it didn’t seem like He minded me wearing it, either!

~~ the phoenix

 

[Belinda]

Your experience is similar to many of your and my generation. We were poorly educated in our faith and find it relatively easy to consider other religions as viable and equal alternatives to the Catholic Church. But, by your question, it seems, God is speaking to you to take another look at what you may be leaving. This is how my own reversion to the Church occurred. I was tired of “feeling” conflicted about the faith and “bored” with mass. Then I began to read and study and pray. It became a fascinating journey into eternal truths and answers to all of the “hard” questions. It began with a Catholic retreat for one weekend, then confession (I hadn’t been in years). Catholic radio helped to introduce me to my faith and “facts” no one ever taught me. Finally, a good Catholic gift/book shop provided me with tapes and books that revealed the Truth. Check out anything by Scott Hahn. Easy to read and packed with the Truth. YOu may find that there was a reason for your questioning. Oh, and by the way, I haven’t been bored in mass in years. I often cry because I am so moved by the awesomeness of receiving Jesus in my body and in my soul. I run to mass whenever I can. God is telling you to question your choice. Really find out about what you are leaving before you drift away. What often happens to those who seek God outside of the Church is after a few years they find that they have “joined” several different religions because they are continuing to search for the Truth, never knowing they had it to begin with. God Bless you on your journey.

 

[Belinda]

Gnosis:

Initially I left Catholicism in pursuit of Protestantism…only to leave Christianity all together as I taught myself in Buddhism. However, as time progressed I found there were elements of both Catholicism and Christianity that all together still rung true to me.

I can not call myself, by any conventional definition, a Catholic or a Christian. In my room I have an altar dedicated to the Buddha, Mary, Christ, and the Hindu gods Krishna and Ganesha. I read from the Hindu Bhavagad Gita, the Buddhist Dhammapada, the Gnostic Gospels, the Qu’ran and, of course, the Bible. The more I learn about other religions the more I am fascinated by the different perspectives they offer on God and the many diverse and beautiful ways they express devotion to Him.

My point is that (though many people will oppose this) just because you are pursuing the Wiccan religion does not mean that you have to fully discard Catholicism. You can freely take part in both. Every religion is flawed, there is no “all or nothing” scenario. Religion is, most importantly, an individual journey and every person, regardless of what they say they believe, relate to God and understand God in a slightly different way than the next. Some beliefs are incompatible with others, but again, religion is so much more than concepts that we hold to be true. One’s faith is a living, fluid, breathing reality, don’t allow instituitons or the lines that other human beings have drawn to limit your own experiences.

You are very right that people will oppose this view. This is the seduction of relativism that pervades our culture and times. But two “truths” that contracdict each other cannot both be true. This simply defies logic. Buddism does not discuss a God at all because it is a religion that does not find God necessary. Christianity that is not God centered does not make sense. These two “faiths” are not compatible. You Must choose. To say I dabble in many faiths is to say “I do not really believe in any of them”. It is true that there are some truths in many religions and cultures. That does not mean they are all equal. Eventually, to grow in depth of faith, you must get off the fence and make a decision. You cannot plunge into the depth of the one True God believing things at a surface level. The more you study the differences in these faith traditions, the more you realize how they are incompatible. You may want to read “The Unexpected Way”. It was written by a professor who was a Buddist and converted to Catholicism. He gives a wonderful explanation of this issue.

 

[Ahimsa]

Belinda:

But two “truths” that contracdict each other cannot both be true. This simply defies logic. Buddism does not discuss a God at all because it is a religion that does not find God necessary. Christianity that is not God centered does not make sense. These two “faiths” are not compatible. You Must choose. To say I dabble in many faiths is to say “I do not really believe in any of them”. It is true that there are some truths in many religions and cultures. That does not mean they are all equal. Eventually, to grow in depth of faith, you must get off the fence and make a decision. You cannot plunge into the depth of the one True God believing things at a surface level. The more you study the differences in these faith traditions, the more you realize how they are incompatible.

Perhaps the point Gnosis is making is that, he is really neither Christian nor Buddhist, nor x nor y, since the classical definitions of these terms are quite exclusive. Instead, Gnosis seems to be engaging in spiritual creativity – which is different from philosophical relativism. Gnosis appears to be striking out on his own, finding “God” on his own, encouraged that many statements in Christian and Buddhist texts match his own understanding of truth. What he is creating is neither Buddhist nor Christian, nor (as he understands it) opposed to Buddhism nor Christianity. He need not be on anyone’s fence, or get off anyone’s fence – he’s off on another continent altogether, totally (de)fence-less.

You may want to read “The Unexpected Way”. It was written by a professor who was a Buddist and converted to Catholicism. He gives a wonderful explanation of this issue.

A review and another review (from a Buddhist perspective) of the book.

 

[LatinCat]

Silverwings, I suggest not giving up your Catholic faith until you have REALLY tried to live it. I mean going to mass every sunday at a traditional Catholic Church. Then, maybe make some daily masses on top of that. Go to confession at least once a month and really repent and try to live a holy life because Jesus deserves our very best. Think about all he did on the cross. PRAY! PRAY! PRAY!. Spend time praying to and being with the blessed trinity that loves us so much. In fact, you might say that God is in love with you! That is why the Church (the people of God) is called the bride of Christ, and Christ is called the bridegroom. Recieve Jesus Christ our God in holy communion frequently and really meditate on the mystery that when you recieve communion you are recieving the eternal, unchanging, God of the Universe who loves you and gives himself in communion for you. It is the bridegrooms giving of his flesh to the bride. Spend time with Jesus in the blessed sacrament chapel, since he is truly present in the Eucharist (holy communion). Read the lives of the Saints like St. Francis of Assisi and St. Maria Faustina. Pray the rosary and meditate on the myster of Christ’s incarnation (when God took on human flesh), his life, death, ressurection, and Glorification. Love as Christ has loved. Volunteer to feed the poor through some Catholic ministry. Beg the almighty to reveal himself to you and persevere in prayer even when it is difficult. Remember that the Catholic faith is not one of feelings. It is one of love and God is love. And love is an action not a feeling. Read “More than a carpenter” by Josh McDowell. It shows from historical evidence that Christ really did rise from the dead valdidating his claim that he is God. Finally, never let decisions be based on emotions; if you do yo will always be tossed about like a boat is tossed by the waves in the sea. I will be praying for you.

 

[LatinCat]

Ahimsa:

Perhaps the point Gnosis is making is that, he is really neither Christian nor Buddhist, nor x nor y, since the classical definitions of these terms are quite exclusive. Instead, Gnosis seems to be engaging in spiritual creativity – which is different from philosophical relativism. Gnosis appears to be striking out on his own, finding “God” on his own, encouraged that many statements in Christian and Buddhist texts match his own understanding of truth. What he is creating is neither Buddhist nor Christian, nor (as he understands it) opposed to Buddhism nor Christianity. He need not be on anyone’s fence, or get off anyone’s fence – he’s off on another continent altogether, totally (de)fence-less.

A review and another review (from a Buddhist perspective) of the book.

The problem with inventing a relgion is that it will never be a true relgion. Truth is the correspondence of a statement with reality. But if one simply constructs their own “truth” such is not truth at all. It is a fantasy and a waste of time and energy. Truth is true in itself. I cannot make things be true because i want them to be.

 

[George_Waters]

silverwings:

Life has been extremely trying over the past year and a half, but I looked to myself to control it, not a Creator.

Silverwings,

You have been given much sound advice from many that know wicca and Catholicism. As a convert I spent years, decades, studying religion and searching for God, but in the end it was God who revealed himself to me and He will to you too… when the time is right. Forcing the issue doesn’t work, be patient. God knows you and what you are going through. He is with you! Have faith!

When I began attending Mass I would look at the faces of those whom had just received communion and could see God in each and every one of them. Try it, it takes little effort and is wonderful.

I noticed your above statement and wanted to pass on something I have learned. It is only when we recognize our limitations and realize that we can not do it alone and allow ourselves to fall into the loving arms of our creator that we can persevere.

I will pray that God reveals himself to you soon.

Peace,

George

 

[Ahimsa]

LatinCat:

The problem with inventing a relgion is that it will never be a true relgion. Truth is the correspondence of a statement with reality. But if one simply constructs their own “truth” such is not truth at all. It is a fantasy and a waste of time and energy. Truth is true in itself. I cannot make things be true because i want them to be.

It’s not a matter of constructing truth, but recognizing truth when you see it. Whether Gnosis is responding to his recognition of truth, is for him to decide. I wouldn’t dare place upon him the extra burden of constructing a religion.

 

[Neithan]

Ahimsa:

It’s not a matter of constructing truth, but recognizing truth when you see it. Whether Gnosis is responding to his recognition of truth, is for him to decide.

*“What is Truth?”
**-Pontius Pilate, ~AD 33

---

 

[LatinCat]

Ahimsa:

It’s not a matter of constructing truth, but recognizing truth when you see it. Whether Gnosis is responding to his recognition of truth, is for him to decide. I wouldn’t dare place upon him the extra burden of constructing a religion.

It is not for him to decide if he is recognizing truth. We are judged by reality. Not the other way around. And the fact of the matter is that all the evidence of reality points to Christianity.

 

[LatinCat]

*“What is Truth?”
**-Pontius Pilate, ~AD 33

---

That which is; or propositions that correspond with reality!

 

[Gnosis]

Thanks Ahimsa, you have demonstrated significant insight into my spirituality though I really only said little about it!

The basic point of contention between my spirituality and those who say that “I have to choose one or the other” it that they consider a faith to be “God delivered”. Its an “all or nothing” scenario. However, I see no such evidence that any one of the world’s faiths was formed or delivered by God himself, rather I see each of the world’s faiths as an attempt of a people or culture to reach out and understand the divine.

I like that you called it “spiritual creativity” because I often look at spirituality in the same way that one would art work. When one engages in a spiritual connection with God, they become an artist, their spirituality a creative expression of their relation to the divine. The truth need not lie in statements of belief or in accepting complex theological concepts, for such frigid, bare analysis often kills the creative spirit. Ambiguity, metaphor, symbolism, emotion,contrast and paradox, the tools and colors of artisitc expression, become the tools of religious expression, painting a work unique, striking, who’s truth can be best grasped by the painter.