Converting to Eastern Catholic from Latin Catholic

[Subiaco]

I was reading about the Eastern Church and specifically the Melkites. I like what I have seen so far. But I dont want to dive farther into it just yet untill I figure out a few things… ( Im in the US if that makes any difference)

Silly questions here so forgive me if they have been asked before. I could not find anything.

1. Is it considered a sin to convert to the Eastern Catholic churches by the Latin one? the reason I ask is I read if one wants to return to the Latin rite they have to go confession to return to the Latin church. If it is not a sin then why have to go to confession.
2. If I do decide to convert then what do I need to do? I have heard it takes a long time and i need permission to do it and they have to find a really good reason to let me do it.

Is this true? I just dont want to love something that I cannot do.

Thanks!

 

[ConstantineTG]

I was reading about the Eastern Church and specifically the Melkites. I like what I have seen so far. But I dont want to dive farther into it just yet untill I figure out a few things… ( Im in the US if that makes any difference)

Silly questions here so forgive me if they have been asked before. I could not find anything.

1. Is it considered a sin to convert to the Eastern Catholic churches by the Latin one? the reason I ask is I read if one wants to return to the Latin rite they have to go confession to return to the Latin church. If it is not a sin then why have to go to confession.

No its not. Perhaps you are thinking about those who convert to Eastern Orthodoxy, not Eastern Catholicism. There is a difference. Of course Eastern Catholics are Catholics like Latin Catholics, they are in communion with the Pope. Orthodox on the other hand are not in communion with the Pope. I believe converting to Orthodoxy is an act of schism.

1. If I do decide to convert then what do I need to do? I have heard it takes a long time and i need permission to do it and they have to find a really good reason to let me do it.

Is this true? I just dont want to love something that I cannot do.

Thanks!

First, being Catholics know that you are free to attend Divine Liturgy and even have your confessions heard by a Melkite Catholic priest. If you want to apply for a canonical transfer, you would need to write your Latin Church Bishop and the Bishop of the Melike eparch you are transferring too.

 

[croix_de_fer]

I’m considering canonical transfer to Eastern Catholicism too. I’m about done with Novus Ordo and I’m a little uneasy about Vatican ll.

Also I believe Shenouda lll is a Bishop (but not Pope) and he’s the successor of Mark the Evangelist.

 

[josethekke]

I would like to know a syromalabar catholic can join a latin parish and visa versa i think time has come for laymens are seprated by making boundries like rites as all belieing in one church and only one jesus christ it is important to follow and practce teachings of jesus christ

 

[rben20]

I’m considering canonical transfer to Eastern Catholicism too. I’m about done with Novus Ordo and I’m a little uneasy about Vatican ll.

Also I believe Shenouda lll is a Bishop (but not Pope) and he’s the successor of Mark the Evangelist.

Croix if you did transfer canonical what Church in the Eastern Catholic Church would you join?

 

[ConstantineTG]

I would like to know a syromalabar catholic can join a latin parish and visa versa i think time has come for laymens are seprated by making boundries like rites as all belieing in one church and only one jesus christ it is important to follow and practce teachings of jesus christ

There is no separation of boundaries. All Catholics can freely worship in any Catholic ritual Church they choose. I myself am a Latin Catholic but have recently been frequenting a Ukrainian Catholic parish.

The Rites itself are traditions of the Churches that were established in the past. We learn from these traditions as these were handed down by the Apostles, so we cherish them and keep them. Everyone regardless of Rite do follow and practice the teachings of Jesus Christ. Thats the beauty of going to different rites and attending liturgy, you will see diversity and yet similarity

 

[ConstantineTG]

I’m considering canonical transfer to Eastern Catholicism too. I’m about done with Novus Ordo and I’m a little uneasy about Vatican ll.

Also I believe Shenouda lll is a Bishop (but not Pope) and he’s the successor of Mark the Evangelist.

But Vatican II affects the entire Church, not just the Roman Church. If I’m correct, the effect on Eastern Churches are more positive though.

 

[Elizium23]

I’m considering canonical transfer to Eastern Catholicism too. I’m about done with Novus Ordo and I’m a little uneasy about Vatican ll.

If this is what you believe then your canonical transfer will be denied. Your bishop won’t like to hear it and the Eastern bishop won’t want to take someone who merely hates the Roman Church.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

No its not. Perhaps you are thinking about those who convert to Eastern Orthodoxy, not Eastern Catholicism. There is a difference. Of course Eastern Catholics are Catholics like Latin Catholics, they are in communion with the Pope. Orthodox on the other hand are not in communion with the Pope. I believe converting to Orthodoxy is an act of schism.

First, being Catholics know that you are free to attend Divine Liturgy and even have your confessions heard by a Melkite Catholic priest. If you want to apply for a canonical transfer, you would need to write your Latin Church Bishop and the Bishop of the Melike eparch you are transferring too.

I agree with this. basically if you are a member “In Good Standing” of the Catholic Church, you’re OK. That’s what I was told, at least, when I came into the Church. You CAN also attednd BOTH Rites.

One important caveat -----
The RC Rite has the Filioque, the Melkite does not. Just don’t say it if you attend a RC rite—that’s what some of my Melkite friends do if they attend an RC Mass.

 

[5Loaves]

croix de fer;7185002:

I’m considering canonical transfer to Eastern Catholicism too. I’m about done with Novus Ordo and I’m a little uneasy about Vatican ll.

If this is what you believe then your canonical transfer will be denied. Your bishop won’t like to hear it and the Eastern bishop won’t want to take someone who merely hates the Roman Church.

Ouch… I don’t see anything in that post about hating the Latin Church. If croix de fer finds that “the venerable and ancient tradition of the Eastern Churches” serves to bring him/her closer to the Most Holy Trinity and salvation the bishops may likewise delight in his/her movement East. Discerning that one tradition is more clearly furthering one’s theosis does not assume one hates the other. I don’t see any conclusion one can draw from these few words croix de fer posted here.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Ouch… I don’t see anything in that post about hating the Latin Church. If croix de fer finds that “the venerable and ancient tradition of the Eastern Churches” serves to bring him/her closer to the Most Holy Trinity and salvation the bishops may likewise delight in his/her movement East. Discerning that one tradition is more clearly furthering one’s theosis does not assume one hates the other. I don’t see any conclusion one can draw from these few words croix de fer posted here.

The key phrases “done with the Novus Ordo” and “uneasy with Vatican II” are strong indicators croix de fer has objections about the OF and the post-Vatican II Church. I think too that an Eastern Bishop will not accept him for that reason. You can’t really run away from Vatican II by going to an Eastern Church for one thing, because Vatican II is for the entire Catholic Church. While changes that affected the Roman Liturgy is non-existent in the east, Vatican II isn’t limited to the Roman Church.

 

[Pakesh]

Also I believe Shenouda lll is a Bishop (but not Pope) and he’s the successor of Mark the Evangelist.

Just an aside, Shenouda III is Patriarch of the Coptic Orthodox Church. There is the sui juris Coptic Catholic Church-whose head was just elevated to the Cardinalate by Benedict XVI. They call Shenouda III pope in the sense of pope meaning “father”-not in the greater context of the Papacy.
God Bless, Pakesh

 

[Aramis]

Just an aside, Shenouda III is Patriarch of the Coptic Orthodox Church. There is the sui juris Coptic Catholic Church-whose head was just elevated to the Cardinalate by Benedict XVI. They call Shenouda III pope in the sense of pope meaning “father”-not in the greater context of the Papacy.
God Bless, Pakesh

Actually, Pope Shenouda III seems to be seen as a pope in the sense of Archpatriarch much as Pope Benedict XVI is… head of a multi-church communion with some direct authority over other patriarchs in that communion. He is definitely seen as the focus for eclesial communion within the Oriental Orthodox. He has ordinary authority within all dioceses of the Coptic Orthodox Church, and seems to have exercised some authority within the Ethiopian Orthodox church.

I’d say generally that he’s on the low end of “high petrine view”…

 

[Domnall]

Just a matter of semantics, but clairification just to avoid conclusion.

The Roman Church and the Eastern Churches aren’t “rites.” They are *sui iuris * independent churches who all see the Pope as their head.

A rite, however, is something like the Ambrosian or Mozarabic liturgies. They are different orders for Mass, but still part of the Roman Church.

God Bless

 

[VetA]

I’m considering canonical transfer to Eastern Catholicism too. I’m about done with Novus Ordo and I’m a little uneasy about Vatican ll.

Also I believe Shenouda lll is a Bishop (but not Pope) and he’s the successor of Mark the Evangelist.

ok so go to a Tridintine Mass then…

 

[Pakesh]

Actually, Pope Shenouda III seems to be seen as a pope in the sense of Archpatriarch much as Pope Benedict XVI is… head of a multi-church communion with some direct authority over other patriarchs in that communion. He is definitely seen as the focus for eclesial communion within the Oriental Orthodox. He has ordinary authority within all dioceses of the Coptic Orthodox Church, and seems to have exercised some authority within the Ethiopian Orthodox church.

I’d say generally that he’s on the low end of “high petrine view”…

Does he direct authority over the Syrian Orthodox Church? I thought he had authority only over the Coptic and Ethiopian Churches. I haven’t heard otherwise, but that definitely doesn’t mean I’m right.
God Bless, Pakesh

 

[ConstantineTG]

ok so go to a Tridintine Mass then…

Maybe like me language is a barrier for him.

I’ve been to an EF Mass twice and I realize its not really for me. Nothing against it, it just doesn’t fit my needs as a person. Although I have nothing against the OF. I’ve been going to OF Masses all my life, in fact this year is the only year I’ve haven’t been to an OF Mass when going for Liturgy. Went to the EF twice, Holy Qurbana once and Divine Liturgy twice. I’m hooked on Divine Liturgy. I just feel different after every DL that I’ve never felt before. I just love it, I love being in a Byzantine church and DL. I love the tradition, the participation, the hymns even though I cannot sing to save my life. Best of all I’m glad my wife goes with me, she wouldn’t go to the EF or to Holy Qurbana because its in a foreign language. But since DL is offered in English, its win-win-win for us.

 

[5Loaves]

VetA;7186796:

ok so go to a Tridintine Mass then…

Maybe like me language is a barrier for him.

I’ve been to an EF Mass twice and I realize its not really for me. Nothing against it, it just doesn’t fit my needs as a person. Although I have nothing against the OF. I’ve been going to OF Masses all my life,… I just feel different after every DL that I’ve never felt before. I just love it, I love being in a Byzantine church and DL. I love the tradition, the participation, the hymns even though I cannot sing to save my life…

And maybe a difference in spirituality, the difference in the sacramental liturgical tradition East and West, which is perhaps what you are describing yourself here.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Does he direct authority over the Syrian Orthodox Church? I thought he had authority only over the Coptic and Ethiopian Churches. I haven’t heard otherwise, but that definitely doesn’t mean I’m right.
God Bless, Pakesh

The SyriaC Church has its own leadership and the Coptic Pope of Alexandria is Patriarch over the Coptic Church and also has a leadership role when it comes to the patriarchs of the Eritrean and Ethiopian Orthodox Churches (there are also Nubians under the Coptic Pope).

The Coptic Pope (who held that papal title long before the Pope of Rome did) used to be called the “New Pharaoh” and the “Ecumenical Archbishop.” He was also the first to exercise what might be called the earliest example of papal jurisdiction - the Coptic Pope had jurisdictional authority over every bishop, priest and parish of Christian Africa. The Church of Alexandria was founded by St Mark and is called the “Evangelical See.”

And EVERY pope of Alexandria since St Mark’s time has figured as a saint down to present times. Pope St Kirillos (who has yet, I believe, to be formally canonized by the Church of Egypt) is a great miracle-worker and was a very holy man in life. He rebuilt the shrine to St Menas, a patron of Egypt and was the pope of Alexandria in the time of the appearance of Our Lady of Zeitoon.

A characteristic feature of the Church of Alexandria is that her bishops and priests all carry a hand Cross at all times (and especially when meeting people). The proper way to greet a priest is to kiss the Cross he holds out and then press it to one’s forehead.

Also, the Coptic and Ethiopian Churches impose a “matab” at Baptism which is a cord on which a Cross may be hung by the Christian.

Matabs were said to have been descended from the strings of St Peter’s prayer shawl - as St Peter baptized in the river Jordan, to avoid baptizing people twice, he cut the strings from Jewish tallis-prayer shawls and tied them around people’s necks after baptizing them.

According to this tradition, the chains on which we wear our Crosses today are descended from that practice started by St Peter.

Alex

 

[ConstantineTG]

And maybe a difference in spirituality, the difference in the sacramental liturgical tradition East and West, which is perhaps what you are describing yourself here.

It probably is. Last Sunday our Reverend Subdeacon was talking to me about “worshiping with all your senses” and it is what I appreciate about Divine Liturgy. The front of the church is nothing but icons, so when worshiping all you see is Our Lord Jesus and the Theotokos and the saints and many events from Scripture. So thats visual. Theres the incense, so thats smell. Hearing, I think it helps our Reverend Subdeacon is an excellent singer. Taste, receiving the Eucharist under both kids is indeed a fuller sign of the Sacrament.

I really feel different after Divine Liturgy. Comparing my feeling after my second EF Mass and my second DL, it was a world of difference. Also, it was a blessing that I was received so warmly in the parish. I’ve never had anyone come to me so warmly. Even when I came back for my second DL, the priest was by the entrance, I greeted him and he said, “hey, I’m glad you came back.” That is why I’m feeling that this is where God wants me to be.