CONVERTS, do you have a moment?

[Della]

I have been a protestant my whole life and I was always searching for the truth. For years I bounced from church to church. Then I finally thought to myself, “I am baptized Lutheran, why not go to a Lutheran Church?” So I found myself at a Lutheran church and it came time for communion and the pastor was talking about the eucharist and that is what changed me.

I wondered what this eucharist thing was, so I went home and researched it, and a bunch of Catholic websites came up. The more I researched the eucharist and the Catholic church the more it made sense. Bread and wine changed into the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. Without a CATHOLIC Priest it is impossible for it to change into the body and blood of Christ.

So I didn’t think much of it, I just excepted and moved on. It had been a week and I didn’t go to church or anything. One of my friends invited me to a college group and after the group that night they were all going to go to Adoration… they said nothing about the Eucharist. So I said ok I will go, its just a chapel where people pray. I walked in and I saw the host in the monstrance and I was like WHOOOAA… there is something in here. What is that circle thing? Then my friend told me it was the Eucharist.

The first time I was in Adoration the only way I can describe it as a sleeping giant. It was incredible the feeling I got, that is when I knew the Catholic church is the one true church.

Something similar happened to me, but at a much younger age. I took a tour of the Cathedral in St. Paul, MN with a group of Catholic girls, one of whom had invited me for the day. As soon as I entered the building I felt the Presence, although I hardly knew what it was. I could sense Someone there, and knew it had to be God. No offense to my Episcopal heritage, but I’d never felt that when I had entered our own Episcopal church. It had nothing to do with size of the structure or the statues, etc. I rather preferred our cozy little parish church for worship, but I knew God was in that cathedral and that he wanted me, in all his strength and glory, as I felt him there. When we walked out into the cool September daylight I felt both relieved and sad to be out of that Presence and back “down to earth” again. Just how do you explain a thing like that to anyone when you are under 5 years old? I sure couldn’t, but it stuck with me all these years and I still remember it at age 63. I’ve always felt God’s Real Presence in Catholic churches, except those that hide their tabernacles like they’re ashamed of them. But, that’s a topic for another thread in a different forum.

 

[LisaA]

Contra, Sadie, and Lisa,

Thank you very much for your support, and the sharing of your experiences. It is so good not to feel so very alone.

I kind of wonder why people like Spong and Ragsdale stay in the church if they don’t believe the creeds – the Episcopal Church “embraces diversity” to the point where a Bishop can publicly deny the entire Outline of Faith, and instead of praying for him, and suggesting that perhaps he is no longer an appropriate person to hold a position of authority, he is invited to speak at lectures, seminaries, and church reading groups are assigned his books.

I just feel a huge sense of loss right now – I can say I am Christian, but not either Catholic or Episcopalian. I have renounced one church, and have yet to be embraced into the communion of the other. Before I can go to the formal classes, I first have to go to “inquirers class”. So I’m not even a convert yet. Yet, I have felt that same sense of loss sitting in the familiarity of the Episcopal Church pews for some time now.

I understand that sense of loss. The day I walked out of the Methodist Church I cried all the way home. I knew I couldn’t go back, couldn’t reconcile myself to the position on abortion. But I had dear friends and had become so involved in church events and missions…it was so hard.

We believe there is One Flock, One Shepherd. You were baptized a Christian, and our Creed says one baptism. Even if you attended the Episcopal Church you are still part of the One Flock! It’s just a matter of process, attending RCIA, going to Mass, getting to know people. I believe you will feel welcomed and cherished as a daughter of God in the Catholic Church.

BTW if you have access to EWTN there is a wonderful show called “The Journey Home” that features the stories of converts. I think you’ll find many kindred spirits in the stories (also on a website by the same name) . It is amazing how the Holy Spirit works to draw us Home!
Lisa

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Just how do you explain a thing like that to anyone when you are under 5 years old? I sure couldn’t, but it stuck with me all these years and I still remember it at age 63. I’ve always felt God’s Real Presence in Catholic churches, except those that hide their tabernacles like they’re ashamed of them. But, that’s a topic for another thread in a different forum.

I felt it too when I was a child. I was only taken to church a few times (Christmas, Easter) and when we went sightseeing. I felt the presence and it was magnetic, but of course, I had no clue what it was. I just knew God was there.

 

[SecretaryMonday]

I think a lot of us came to the Church due to our dismay about the track of many of our previously traditional faith traditions. I was a Methodist and had to shake my head in wonder as our Book Group read SEVERAL of Bishop Spong’s books. I was horrified by his negativity and his skepticism about Christ.

I attended a Methodist church for a little while, and got involved in a Marcus Borg book study there. (They were considering Bishop Spong as their next author to focus on when I left.) According to the study group, dogmas were simply the product of unenlightened majority vote and we were now free to explore and accept ideas that had been pushed to the side as “heresy”, for instance, that God was not triune, Jesus was only “son of God” in the sense that He was more in touch with the inner “Godness” than most people, there was no resurrection or virgin birth, there were no miracles…everything Christianity had historically taught as fact was only “true” in the sense that it provoked a variety of deep emotional and spiritual meanings in us and could make us better versions of ourselves, but this understanding had been hidden from the more “literal” Christian thinkers throughout the centuries; it was only in our age that we could properly understand. I thought, “This is the religion that people are happy to be tortured and killed for?” It was part of the reason I ended up becoming Catholic.

 

[SecretaryMonday]

I
The first time I was in Adoration the only way I can describe it as a sleeping giant. It was incredible the feeling I got, that is when I knew the Catholic church is the one true church.

Me too! I liken my experience of finding the Catholic Church to G.K. Chesterton’s story about the little boy in a tiny village who goes off on a long journey to find a fabled giant; when he gets far enough away from his village and turns around, he realizes that his village, the mountains, the forests are all fragments of the sleeping giant’s armor; he has been living on the giant all his life and never knew.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Maybe your Dad needs to re-read the book he gave you lol.

Maybe.

It is an amazing book. My conversion is not unique, it has touched many people in the same way. Every time i read it I find something new. Last time I understood martyrdom a bit better and how that builds the church. It is a deeply Catholic book with a page turner story.

 

[CleverUserName]

OP:
what city are you in? We should connect you with an Anglican Use Priest to talk about RCIA and becoming Catholic.

Me? I left the Anglican church long ago. My path went like this:

Atheist
Agnostic
Pagan
Theist
Christian
Epicopalian
ACNA Anglican
Reformed Episcopal
Brief stay with the Antiochan Orthodox

Catholic

 

[CleverUserName]

Contra, Sadie, and Lisa,

Thank you very much for your support, and the sharing of your experiences. It is so good not to feel so very alone.

I kind of wonder why people like Spong and Ragsdale stay in the church if they don’t believe the creeds – the Episcopal Church “embraces diversity” to the point where a Bishop can publicly deny the entire Outline of Faith, and instead of praying for him, and suggesting that perhaps he is no longer an appropriate person to hold a position of authority, he is invited to speak at lectures, seminaries, and church reading groups are assigned his books.

I just feel a huge sense of loss right now – I can say I am Christian, but not either Catholic or Episcopalian. I have renounced one church, and have yet to be embraced into the communion of the other. Before I can go to the formal classes, I first have to go to “inquirers class”. So I’m not even a convert yet. Yet, I have felt that same sense of loss sitting in the familiarity of the Episcopal Church pews for some time now.

I sure do know what it’s like to feel “homeless”. I felt that way when I was going from church to church, looking for “My Place”.

Please know that you are already well into your conversion process. This begins in your heart and soul, not in any class anywhere. You can even be a part of your Catholic Parish. Start attending mass and put your name and address on the Parish directory- become part of the family that exists there. Get involved. You are not churchhomeless. You are not “neither”. Baptism by desire, my dear… read about this, please. If you feel that you are and accept the Church teachings and authority, you can call yourself “Catholic” while you are in conversion.

I embrace you fully!

 

[CleverUserName]

I have been a protestant my whole life and I was always searching for the truth. For years I bounced from church to church. Then I finally thought to myself, “I am baptized Lutheran, why not go to a Lutheran Church?” So I found myself at a Lutheran church and it came time for communion and the pastor was talking about the eucharist and that is what changed me.

I wondered what this eucharist thing was, so I went home and researched it, and a bunch of Catholic websites came up. The more I researched the eucharist and the Catholic church the more it made sense. Bread and wine changed into the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. Without a CATHOLIC Priest it is impossible for it to change into the body and blood of Christ.

So I didn’t think much of it, I just excepted and moved on. It had been a week and I didn’t go to church or anything. One of my friends invited me to a college group and after the group that night they were all going to go to Adoration… they said nothing about the Eucharist. So I said ok I will go, its just a chapel where people pray. I walked in and I saw the host in the monstrance and I was like WHOOOAA… there is something in here. What is that circle thing? Then my friend told me it was the Eucharist.

The first time I was in Adoration the only way I can describe it as a sleeping giant. It was incredible the feeling I got, that is when I knew the Catholic church is the one true church.

“Sleeping Giant” WHOAH!!! Can I quote you on this? I would love to share your story. That is one incredible way to describe it. Thank you for sharing!!!

 

[CleverUserName]

Yes. The Church recognizes your baptism, so you are a Christian not yet fully reconciled to the Church, but since your heart is already in union with the Church, God sees that and knows your intentions. It’s just a matter of getting the rest of you united with us. As long as you are in the process, you can consider yourself Catholic, excepting the Eucharist (unless the bishop should give you permission to receive). If I’m wrong someone will correct me, but I believe confession is also open to you–at least you could go, explain your situation and let the priest decide if he can give you absolutoin at this point in your journey. You have our prayers. God bless you and yours.

Confession is a sacrament of the Church. Not until she is fully Catholic But yes maybe she would feel better having talked to a priest about it.

 

[Della]

Confession is a sacrament of the Church. Not until she is fully Catholic But yes maybe she would feel better having talked to a priest about it.

Yeah, most non-Catholics do not attend confession (whether or not they can receive absolution), but part of the RCIA process is confession, but only after having gone through the invitational rites (I forget what they’re called ). Still, as you say, it can hurt to talk to a priest about one’s sins before, if desired/needed–not that she’s indicated she has a great need to do so. Don’t know why I brought it up.

 

[Gwendolen]

Yeah, most non-Catholics do not attend confession (whether or not they can receive absolution), but part of the RCIA process is confession, but only after having gone through the invitational rites (I forget what they’re called ). Still, as you say, it can hurt to talk to a priest about one’s sins before, if desired/needed–not that she’s indicated she has a great need to do so. Don’t know why I brought it up.

Confession is not a great need – in the Episcopal Church, we have weekly confession/absolution at the Eucharist, and if there is a particular sin that is burdening your soul, you are encouraged to confess privately, and receive counsel and absolution. So I have already confessed those things that have troubled me the most. I realize the Catholic Church might not consider this absolution valid (most confessions were done at “anglo-catholic” churches, because they had regular confession, and I didn’t need a separate appointment) but that the sacraments I have been receiving all this time might not be “valid” is a difficult concept to wrap my mind around. I rather think it’s because they were valid is why I have had the strength to do what needs to be done, but we shall see what they say. I am curious as to if they will make me confess again to what I have already received absolution for.

The concepts of mortal and venial sins are going to take some getting used to, it has been more “sins that I can’t stop doing without God’s help”, “sins I need to confess to get counsel about getting out of sin” vs reflecting and changing without the need for a private session. That has up until now been the deciding factor, so I have only been maybe 1/2 dozen times. I am going to have to relearn how to approach confession, definitely.

 

[Della]

Confession is not a great need – in the Episcopal Church, we have weekly confession/absolution at the Eucharist, and if there is a particular sin that is burdening your soul, you are encouraged to confess privately, and receive counsel and absolution. So I have already confessed those things that have troubled me the most. I realize the Catholic Church might not consider this absolution valid (most confessions were done at “anglo-catholic” churches, because they had regular confession, and I didn’t need a separate appointment) but that the sacraments I have been receiving all this time might not be “valid” is a difficult concept to wrap my mind around. I rather think it’s because they were valid is why I have had the strength to do what needs to be done, but we shall see what they say. I am curious as to if they will make me confess again to what I have already received absolution for.

The concepts of mortal and venial sins are going to take some getting used to, it has been more “sins that I can’t stop doing without God’s help”, “sins I need to confess to get counsel about getting out of sin” vs reflecting and changing without the need for a private session. That has up until now been the deciding factor, so I have only been maybe 1/2 dozen times. I am going to have to relearn how to approach confession, definitely.

Yes, there are many fine differences between the two faith communities. Really, though mortal sin isn’t all that hard to understand. It is what is also called grave sin–basically deliberately breaking the Ten Commandments. Venial sins are those sins we commit from weakness or ignorance due to our fallen natures but not necessarily acts of the will. The criteria for mortal sin is quite specific and no one can commit them without knowing what they are, doing them anyway, and of one’s own free will. Receiving the Eucharist removes venial sin while mortal sins require confession since they are acts of free will.

Whenever we present ourselves to God in good faith he meets us where we are. It’s why in the Catholic Church even a Mass celebrated illicitly but validly still confers grace. God gives his grace to those who seek him no matter who they are or what ecclesial body/faith they are embracing. Of course, to whom much is given much is required, so we are responsible for the knowledge God gives us and must act accordingly. I hope that helps.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I realize the Catholic Church might not consider this absolution valid (most confessions were done at “anglo-catholic” churches, because they had regular confession, and I didn’t need a separate appointment) but that the sacraments I have been receiving all this time might not be “valid” is a difficult concept to wrap my mind around.

I know several anglicans/episcopalians and many people in my previous parish were converts from anglicanism/episcopalianism. The attitude is pretty much “we are /were practically Catholic”. That is just not the case and converts have to un-learn many things, including what the sacraments are.

May I suggest this blog: patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/

The author grew up in a fundamentalist church, converted to anglicanism and became a priest, then became Catholic after a number of years and is now a Catholic priest. He ocassionally writes about anglicanism and discusses its current problems and where they stem from. Perhaps that will help you see things from a Catholic perspective. He is very happy to discuss things via email with people if one feels the need for further clarification.

God bless you on this journey. There will be difficulties (there always are) but it is so worth it.

 

[CleverUserName]

I know several anglicans/episcopalians and many people in my previous parish were converts from anglicanism/episcopalianism. The attitude is pretty much “we are /were practically Catholic”. That is just not the case and converts have to un-learn many things, including what the sacraments are.

May I suggest this blog: patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/

The author grew up in a fundamentalist church, converted to anglicanism and became a priest, then became Catholic after a number of years and is now a Catholic priest. He ocassionally writes about anglicanism and discusses its current problems and where they stem from. Perhaps that will help you see things from a Catholic perspective. He is very happy to discuss things via email with people if one feels the need for further clarification.

God bless you on this journey. There will be difficulties (there always are) but it is so worth it.

Fr. Dwight is awesome!

 

[Gwendolen]

I know several anglicans/episcopalians and many people in my previous parish were converts from anglicanism/episcopalianism. The attitude is pretty much “we are /were practically Catholic”. That is just not the case and converts have to un-learn many things, including what the sacraments are.

May I suggest this blog: patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/

The author grew up in a fundamentalist church, converted to anglicanism and became a priest, then became Catholic after a number of years and is now a Catholic priest. He ocassionally writes about anglicanism and discusses its current problems and where they stem from. Perhaps that will help you see things from a Catholic perspective. He is very happy to discuss things via email with people if one feels the need for further clarification.

God bless you on this journey. There will be difficulties (there always are) but it is so worth it.

I checked out the blog, thanks, it’s a good read…

I went to Inquirer’s class yesterday. I took my Book of Common Prayer, which has the Catechism at the end of it. It is a small section at the end of the book. I had to laugh, I just had a few pages, really, and the teacher was holding a huge book of the Catholic Catechism. She glanced through what I handed her, and said, yes, this is pretty much what we believe, but here (her book) is the rest of it.

The explanation I got from the deacon was not that being Episcopal is “almost” Catholic, but that that some of the foundation work is similar – the liturgical seasons, the liturgy, the sacraments – at least the concept of a sacrament, and we have the same 7. For me, although all those things have familiarity, they don’t make me “feel Catholic”. I feel like I have moved into a new house, and some of the furniture has come with me, but it’s still a different house, if that makes sense. The furniture is a little comforting, but the it’s a different house, in a different neighborhood, and I can’t (and don’t want to) pretend that I haven’t left where I was. I made vows, at my confirmation, and at my children’s baptisms to “renounce the forces of evil”; I don’t think I ever really felt the force of evil until I read Katherine Ragsdale’s “abortion is a blessing” speech.

Part of this journey will be trying to figure out how so much evil has been able to take blatant hold, in the Episcopal Church, in the clear light of day, whilst its leadership around acts like all is good. What differences between the two churches have allowed one to deny it’s very creeds out in the open, and the other, still of course with it’s struggles, to cling to them even in the midst of its sin? One church has sinned, and denied its creeds to rationalize its sins, and the other has sinned (sex abuse scandal comes to mind here) and has turned to its creeds for Redemption. I must figure out where and how this difference came in to embrace Catholicism, I don’t WANT it to be “almost like” the Episcopal Church.

 

[LisaA]

I checked out the blog, thanks, it’s a good read…

The explanation I got from the deacon was not that being Episcopal is “almost” Catholic, but that that some of the foundation work is similar – the liturgical seasons, the liturgy, the sacraments – at least the concept of a sacrament, and we have the same 7. For me, although all those things have familiarity, they don’t make me “feel Catholic”. I feel like I have moved into a new house, and some of the furniture has come with me, but it’s still a different house, if that makes sense. The furniture is a little comforting, but the it’s a different house, in a different neighborhood, and I can’t (and don’t want to) pretend that I haven’t left where I was. I made vows, at my confirmation, and at my children’s baptisms to “renounce the forces of evil”; I don’t think I ever really felt the force of evil until I read Katherine Ragsdale’s “abortion is a blessing” speech.

Part of this journey will be trying to figure out how so much evil has been able to take blatant hold, in the Episcopal Church, in the clear light of day, whilst its leadership around acts like all is good. What differences between the two churches have allowed one to deny it’s very creeds out in the open, and the other, still of course with it’s struggles, to cling to them even in the midst of its sin? **One church has sinned, and denied its creeds to rationalize its sins, and the other has sinned (sex abuse scandal comes to mind here) and has turned to its creeds for Redemption. ** I must figure out where and how this difference came in to embrace Catholicism, I don’t WANT it to be “almost like” the Episcopal Church.

What an amazing and astute comment (bolded above) !Thank you for continuing to take us with you on the initial steps of your journey and I hope some of my experience might help you understand the differences. I spent four years in a Spiritual Direction program offered by the area Episcopal Cathedral and while I loved many things about the program and the people, the E.C. is not “almost Catholic” despite what you friends may have told you. As you noted it is a Liturgical Church but then so are the Methodists and the Lutherans and probably more (Orthodox although their Easter is different) so there are similarities in the rituals and the various portions of the year and how they are celebrated. But it’s a surface similarity—there is a huge difference in the interior.

What I believe is that there is no way for the E.C. to overcome its origin. It was founded on a sin and a lie and as is always the case, one sin leads to another. One lie leads to more lies. It was created to allow Henry VIII to marry Anne Boleyn and as a matter of course allowed the king to steal the valuable property of many Catholic monasteries and orders and churches. It put the king in the place of the Holy Father as head of the church (small c is on purpose). Apostolic succession was severed. Think about it…the “head” of the church was probably guilty of all of the Ten Commandments within a short period of time. The founder of our Church was Jesus Christ.

So while the EC has the trappings of the Church it does not have the heart or the soul or the 2000 years of tradition or the saints or apostolic succession. There are some wonderful people but as you said, they’ve exchanged the truth for the tide and they’ve been carried along until they can’t find their way back. Our Church was founded on a rock…and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. As you step further into your faith journey I know you will see the fullness of truth and know you are home.

Lisa

 

[GraceSofia]

Lisa,
I agree with what you’v said here ^ to Gwendolen. I believe the difference is the Pope and the Magisterium. The unbroken line of bishops going all the way back to St. Peter for 2000 years is Christ’s gift to us, to guide us as He promised. This is an enlightening collection of Scripture verses and writing/quotes from the Early Church Fathers on The Church that I have found helpful and so I share it in hopes that others will, too.

THE CHURCH

Scripture
Peter is the Rock on which the Church is Built
Peter has the Keys of Authority over the Earthly Kingdom, the Church
Peter’s Keys and Papal Succession
The Church is Infallible and Supernatural
The Church is Visible and One
The Church is Hierarchical
Controversies in the Church

Tradition / Church Fathers
Peter is the Rock on which the Church is Built
The Church is called “Catholic”
The Church is Indefectible
The Church’s Ecumenical Councils are Infallible
The Church is Hierarchical (Bishops, Priests and Deacons)
The Church is Visible and One

 

[JoanneSmith]

I am hesitant to share, but I will try. I had 3 “moments.”

The first was when I was thirteen. I borrowed my father’s copy of The Exorcist after he told me not to read it. By the time I finished I was enthralled by the idea that this man would give up his life for a girl he didn’t even know, couldn’t repay him in any way, and he had no reason to even care for.

The second time I was trying to find my religion. Of all things, I happened to be reading about Reveillon dinners, when it just hit me like a ton of bricks. I loved everything about the Catholic Church and culture. I loved great big cathedrals, Italian Renaissance artwork, the haunting sound of Gregorian chant, the prayers, Christmas, the Saints, Mardi Gras, Lent, the monastic life. There was just so many wonderful and amazing things that Catholics did to worship God. It had everything.

The third time I was in RCIA and I was constantly talking, trying to grasp the theology, failing, sometimes saying the dumbest things ever. My priest gave me a book, Theology for Beginners by Frank Sheed. I ate it up, everything made so much sense. When I got the end, I was completely thrown for loop. I was sitting there thinking, “wait, scientifically speaking just because someone says something it’s still impossible for a piece of bread to become the God of the Universe, but logically speaking, this has to happen or else nothing would exist at all.” It really shook me up. Here was reading something that seemed more real than my own existence, realizing I was held in existence by someone I had sinned against, and fear that I didn’t love him enough to even care that this must be true. In fact, I didn’t feel like I was even capable of loving at all. There is more but I am going to stop here, because I already feel like I am oversharing.

 

[SecretaryMonday]

I checked out the blog, thanks, it’s a good read…

I went to Inquirer’s class yesterday. I took my Book of Common Prayer, which has the Catechism at the end of it. It is a small section at the end of the book. I had to laugh, I just had a few pages, really, and the teacher was holding a huge book of the Catholic Catechism. She glanced through what I handed her, and said, yes, this is pretty much what we believe, but here (her book) is the rest of it.

The explanation I got from the deacon was not that being Episcopal is “almost” Catholic, but that that some of the foundation work is similar – the liturgical seasons, the liturgy, the sacraments – at least the concept of a sacrament, and we have the same 7. For me, although all those things have familiarity, they don’t make me “feel Catholic”. I feel like I have moved into a new house, and some of the furniture has come with me, but it’s still a different house, if that makes sense. The furniture is a little comforting, but the it’s a different house, in a different neighborhood, and I can’t (and don’t want to) pretend that I haven’t left where I was. I made vows, at my confirmation, and at my children’s baptisms to “renounce the forces of evil”; I don’t think I ever really felt the force of evil until I read Katherine Ragsdale’s “abortion is a blessing” speech.

Part of this journey will be trying to figure out how so much evil has been able to take blatant hold, in the Episcopal Church, in the clear light of day, whilst its leadership around acts like all is good. What differences between the two churches have allowed one to deny it’s very creeds out in the open, and the other, still of course with it’s struggles, to cling to them even in the midst of its sin? One church has sinned, and denied its creeds to rationalize its sins, and the other has sinned (sex abuse scandal comes to mind here) and has turned to its creeds for Redemption. I must figure out where and how this difference came in to embrace Catholicism, I don’t WANT it to be “almost like” the Episcopal Church.

Among other things, I like your example of “same furniture, different house”. You write well and I enjoy reading about your journey.