Convert's Experience of Mass

[WaitingForJesus]

Another “high speed Mass” today. I’m getting used to it now, it’ll be strange when our regular priest is back next week!

I won’t lie, I miss the homilies and the sign of peace, but I know they’re optional - and more to the point I know there are millions of good Catholics worldwide who don’t get the chance to go to weekday Mass while my yet-to-be converted self gets to just wander in as an observer, so I pray as fervently as I can and respond as loudly and clearly as I can while I’m there.

Does anyone know the answer to my question above - how is it decided whether the priest will deliver an element of the Mass in English or Latin, and spoken or chanted/sung? Is it just a free choice for the priest that day, or is it following some rubric that we parishioners can use to work out in advance what’s going to happen?

Priest discretion. At my parish, the same priest will often alternate between praying the Sactus and Agnes Dei in English, and singing them in Latin. Same thing with prayers…sometimes he will read prayers and other times chant. Sometimes we speak the Our Father and other times we sing. It is up to the priest how he wants to celebrate, although the essential elements are always there. He can do things differently based on how he is feeling each day.

I am a convert too. One thing that always stumped me was the Eucharistic prayer. I wanted to know which one he would be using. I asked and he said there is no way to know. it is up to him to pick what he wants to use each day.

 

[Euphon]

Thanks for the book recommendation, always happy to have more things to read!

Interesting to know it’s the personal choice of the priest. And I know exactly what you mean about the EP (and now we’re in Ordinary Time there are several different prefaces to factor in too). How do people cope?

It seems that there’s always a tiny gap between the priest beginning a communal part, and the congregation joining in, as though everyone is doing what I’m doing and waiting to see whether it’s going to be English/Latin and spoken/sung (and it was especially noticeable this week, because often by the time we worked it out and started the response, the priest was almost finished and ready to move on to the next one!)… but I often wonder if experienced Catholics (whether “cradle” or even long-time converts) have got to a point where you just know these things from repeated experience.

I’m doing OK so far, I think, though I feel like a fraud when I stumble over some unexpected choice (e.g. one of the less-used penitential acts other than “I confess to almighty God and to you my brothers and sisters…”). Also, I can’t seem to memorise the Gloria for some reason (perhaps because it’s not used every day and so it has time to sneak back out of my head), but I’ve got most of the rest of the call-and-response bits committed to memory in both languages - it’s just getting quicker at recognising them, I suppose.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Thanks for the book recommendation, always happy to have more things to read!

Interesting to know it’s the personal choice of the priest. And I know exactly what you mean about the EP (and now we’re in Ordinary Time there are several different prefaces to factor in too). How do people cope?

It seems that there’s always a tiny gap between the priest beginning a communal part, and the congregation joining in, as though everyone is doing what I’m doing and waiting to see whether it’s going to be English/Latin and spoken/sung (and it was especially noticeable this week, because often by the time we worked it out and started the response, the priest was almost finished and ready to move on to the next one!)… but I often wonder if experienced Catholics (whether “cradle” or even long-time converts) have got to a point where you just know these things from repeated experience.

I’m doing OK so far, I think, though I feel like a fraud when I stumble over some unexpected choice (e.g. one of the less-used penitential acts other than “I confess to almighty God and to you my brothers and sisters…”). Also, I can’t seem to memorise the Gloria for some reason (perhaps because it’s not used every day and so it has time to sneak back out of my head), but I’ve got most of the rest of the call-and-response bits committed to memory in both languages - it’s just getting quicker at recognising them, I suppose.

I think once a “slower” priest returns it will aid very much in figuring things out, also in my experience the priests have stuck to a relatively standard format at each church so if you go to the same church each week it should be relatively standard from week to week. Also, you can download a free ebook on iTunes or kindle called “the order of the mass”. This will have all of the priest parts and responses and can aid you in memorizing. I have found that reading this on my own time and regular Sunday attendance has helped me memorize over time (about a year).

I hope that you can not sweat the details too much as they will work themselves out. Remember it is about worshiping God, and simply attending and participating at the best of your ability is very pleasing to him. God will accept your penitential act if you have a few words wrong or even if its cut short by a speedy priest. It is about your heart first and foremost!

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

It seems that there’s always a tiny gap between the priest beginning a communal part, and the congregation joining in, as though everyone is doing what I’m doing and waiting to see whether it’s going to be English/Latin and spoken/sung (and it was especially noticeable this week, because often by the time we worked it out and started the response, the priest was almost finished and ready to move on to the next one!)… but I often wonder if experienced Catholics (whether “cradle” or even long-time converts) have got to a point where you just know these things from repeated experience.

With time you just get used to it. Sometimes I don’t even notice if it is English or Latin, and to be honest, I never know which Eucharistic prayer it is

You are probably still following the mass rather than praying it, so that is why you are so attentive to detail. That is not a bad thing and it is quite natural since you are new to it. But with time you will probably relax more into the mass and just let it all flow.

 

[jmcrae]

A question about Mass from a hopeful soon-to-be convert.

I love Mass. As I mentioned in another thread, I’ve started attending daily. I’ve no religious background to speak of in terms of attending Church, and so all of this is new to me - and so far, it’s been wonderful, our parish priest and also the local Bishop both with very different styles but both moving and thought-provoking.

Today, I went to Mass and there was a stand-in priest, who managed to run through the entire weekday Mass in just over seventeen minutes. (That’s 17 minutes total, from the antiphon to “The mass is ended”). No homily, no sign of peace; he was racing through it so fast he sounded like a horse racing commentator, and for large stretches I couldn’t actually understand what he was saying. (I usually follow along in my hand missal, but not during the Eucharistic Prayer, and he gabbled that so quickly I couldn’t even work out which prayer he was saying until about halfway through.)

Anyway, my question is… is this normal? Indeed, is it widespread? Have I just been “lucky” so far having two very good priests doing Mass, or was I “unlucky” today? Or is there no norm for this sort of thing and it’s just the luck of the draw as to which church you happen to attend?

Thanks,

A curious would-be convert.

When I first came to convert I was also amazed at the rocket-like speed of the Mass (including Sunday Masses, which at that time tended to be closer to 45 minutes than an hour in my area) compared to the slow, leisurely Presbyterian-style services I had grown up with. In my childhood it was not uncommon for a sermon to last 40 minutes in my home church, and people sat and listened attentively. Although I do remember my father, along with several other men, getting up and going for a smoke during the collection afterwards. They would talk about the sermon while they were in the vestibule smoking. I hardly ever hear anyone talking about the homily at Mass, unless the topic was controversial in some way.

I experienced a 15-minute daily Mass one time early in my journey of conversion, and I must admit I was rather put off by it - it seemed extremely irreverent, to me.

Fortunately, reverence has returned, at least somewhat, and Sunday Masses are closer to an hour now, and weekday Masses are near enough to 30 minutes as makes no difference.

Interesting to know it’s the personal choice of the priest. And I know exactly what you mean about the EP (and now we’re in Ordinary Time there are several different prefaces to factor in too). How do people cope?

The responses are pretty much always the same throughout the various Eucharistic Prayers, and when they’re different, the priest will usually indicate which one he is expecting. I’ve never tried to follow along in the Missal - by the time I had become aware that there was such a thing, I had been to Mass often enough that I already knew most of the responses, or could fake my way through them.

I did find it useful for preparing at home beforehand, though, and at one point I did try to memorize all of the Eucharistic prayers. I was not able to succeed, though, and afterwards I realized that I had been coping just fine without ever knowing what they were, anyway.

These days, I just show up to Mass without the book or anything, and I do just fine.

 

[LilyM]

I’m a lawyer, and notice that some of my colleagues are much quicker when speaking in court - or indeed in general - than others. Clearly the same with priests.

Sometimes there are external factors such as having other duties to rush off to (and I’d imagine being a university chaplain could be very busy indeed), sometimes quite simply a person’s mind and mouth just work faster than average. Either way it can be disconcerting.

I’m pretty sure I’ve attended at least a few daily masses, without music, homily or sign of peace, that would have been 20 minutes or less. Some priests have a gift for being able to speak quickly but still be well understood and not sound or feel rushed. Others are the opposite - they may take longer but still be hard to understand or give an impression of hurriedness.

 

[jmcrae]

There wasn’t a homily or any music yesterday - and it was much, much faster than the Masses I’ve had in my very limited experience - but I didn’t read anything further into it. That’s kind of the point of this thread, I didn’t know whether that was “rushed” or whether that was the “normal” pace and my usual priest would be considered too slow. I’ve no idea, because I’ve only been going to Mass for less than two months.

The presence of Jesus is obviously the important thing - at the end of the day Mass is still Mass - I’m just curious as to how it’s usually done.

Today, there was lots of music (a first for me!) courtesy of the visiting choir, but no homily, and the resulting Mass was closer to 30-35 minutes.

Also, today there was a new person alongside the priest, dressed in a white gown and green sash, who I’ve never seen before and whose role I don’t understand (he did the Gospel reading and interjected (almost interrupted!) twice, and to my uneducated eye it seemed as if he was specifically trying to rein in the fast-talking priest)… anyone able to enlighten me?

That was a Deacon - most likely a married man who has been Ordained to Holy Orders. His specific functions are, the Gospel, the Sign of Peace, the Chalice, and the Dismissal, but many priests are not used to having a Deacon with them, so when the priest was about to do the Deacon’s part, he would have “cut in” to make sure he fulfilled his functions.

 

[paperwight66]

That was a Deacon - most likely a married man who has been Ordained to Holy Orders. His specific functions are, the Gospel, the Sign of Peace, the Chalice, and the Dismissal, but many priests are not used to having a Deacon with them, so when the priest was about to do the Deacon’s part, he would have “cut in” to make sure he fulfilled his functions.

Yes, that’s always happening in our parish! Particularly when it’s time for ‘Let us offer each other a sign of peace’.

 

[WaitingForJesus]

Thanks for the book recommendation, always happy to have more things to read!

Interesting to know it’s the personal choice of the priest. And I know exactly what you mean about the EP (and now we’re in Ordinary Time there are several different prefaces to factor in too). How do people cope?

It seems that there’s always a tiny gap between the priest beginning a communal part, and the congregation joining in, as though everyone is doing what I’m doing and waiting to see whether it’s going to be English/Latin and spoken/sung (and it was especially noticeable this week, because often by the time we worked it out and started the response, the priest was almost finished and ready to move on to the next one!)… but I often wonder if experienced Catholics (whether “cradle” or even long-time converts) have got to a point where you just know these things from repeated experience.

I’m doing OK so far, I think, though I feel like a fraud when I stumble over some unexpected choice (e.g. one of the less-used penitential acts other than “I confess to almighty God and to you my brothers and sisters…”). Also, I can’t seem to memorise the Gloria for some reason (perhaps because it’s not used every day and so it has time to sneak back out of my head), but I’ve got most of the rest of the call-and-response bits committed to memory in both languages - it’s just getting quicker at recognising them, I suppose.

Don’t worry about stumbling over things. It is very hard to memorize all these prayers and songs. It took me at least a year! If the Gloria is your main struggle, you are doing great. God is just happy you are there worshipping and learning about him. God bless!

 

[kingal86]

Thank you! Sadly, according to those websites, the nearest venue listed would involve a 5 hour round trip by train… maybe if I’m away on business in one of those vicinities I can find a way to attend Thanks for the pointers though!

Edit: I hadn’t seen your comment about Rorate Caeli - I’ll be sure to contact them. Thanks again.

If you haven’t already, have a look at this list too from the Latin Mass Society.

lms.org.uk/find-a-mass/mass-listings

Off the top of my head I know Birmingham Oratory, London Oratory and I think other churches in London have Latin Masses, but not sure about the rest of the country.

 

[Euphon]

Don’t worry about stumbling over things. It is very hard to memorize all these prayers and songs. It took me at least a year! If the Gloria is your main struggle, you are doing great. God is just happy you are there worshipping and learning about him. God bless!

Thank you I stumbled over the Hail Mary on Sunday (blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus Christ), as if to remind me not to get too cocky…

I’ve now seen a variety of different priests celebrating Mass, sometimes with deacons but mainly without, all with differing “styles” and preferences. I’m very much still learning - apart from tripping over one of the most basic prayers (!) there’s a lot I’ve yet to get my head around - the Novena of the Sacred Heart is just something that’s happening for other people right now… but I’m loving it. Two weeks ago, for Holy Trinity, for the homily the regular priest gave an amazing step-by-step explanation of the Eucharistic Prayer which I wish had been recorded for posterity, it was tremendously enlightening for me and I think it struck a chord with most of the congregation too. I’ve seen baptisms, I’ve seen confirmations… I’ve even seen lay Carmelites being invested (is that the right word?), I had little clue what was going on with the unfamiliar ritual and people with giant brown scapulars being worn outside of clothes but found the sisters’ dedication moving all the same.

I’d say to anyone, anywhere, who is thinking about becoming Catholic, please just walk in and sit at the back, and watch, and listen. It’s amazing.

 

[WaitingForJesus]

Thank you I stumbled over the Hail Mary on Sunday (blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus Christ), as if to remind me not to get too cocky…

I’ve now seen a variety of different priests celebrating Mass, sometimes with deacons but mainly without, all with differing “styles” and preferences. I’m very much still learning - apart from tripping over one of the most basic prayers (!) there’s a lot I’ve yet to get my head around - the Novena of the Sacred Heart is just something that’s happening for other people right now… but I’m loving it. Two weeks ago, for Holy Trinity, for the homily the regular priest gave an amazing step-by-step explanation of the Eucharistic Prayer which I wish had been recorded for posterity, it was tremendously enlightening for me and I think it struck a chord with most of the congregation too. I’ve seen baptisms, I’ve seen confirmations… I’ve even seen lay Carmelites being invested (is that the right word?), I had little clue what was going on with the unfamiliar ritual and people with giant brown scapulars being worn outside of clothes but found the sisters’ dedication moving all the same.

I’d say to anyone, anywhere, who is thinking about becoming Catholic, please just walk in and sit at the back, and watch, and listen. It’s amazing.

You are absolutely right Euphon! I am so glad to hear you are still liking it and wish I could have heard that explanation of the Eucharistic Prayer. Don’t worry about getting cocky as you will be learning for years. I have to tell you that in confession last week, I completely blanked out during the Act of Contrition. The priest had to help me finish it. More than once I have had to tell him there are just too many prayers, and that I have only memorized the ones he requires for the 3rd graders since that is how old my daughter is! We have a new priest at our parish as well. The first time I went to him for confession, I told him that I barely knew what I was doing (it was my third confession). He said, that’s OK, I have only been a priest for a few months. I think this one likes assigning me new prayers for my penance as he always says something like this: “Do you know the Angelus yet?” If I say no, then he gives me a card so I can say it. I feel like I am about 10 years old.

You are correct, it is called investment when someone decides to wear the brown scapular.

 

[Euphon]

Today was… interesting! There was a group there who I took to be an Irish traveller* family - three generations’ worth, all dressed rather immodestly - and between them they caused chaos throughout Mass. One of them was texting all the way through the readings, and the two young children (I’d guess aged between 4-5) spent the whole time running around the church (including in and out of the pews, pushing past people), shouting (including some audible profanities during the silent parts of the Eucharistic Prayer ) and picking their way through the congregation, while either the mother or grandmother half-heartedly jogged around after them up and down the aisle with her flip flops squeaking, shouting C’mere! Stop it! I’m warnin’ you!. At one stage the priest stopped for about a minute and then asked, gently, “please be seated now.” No shame whatsoever.

So now I know people don’t get thrown out of Mass, or at least I suppose they don’t, and especially not in Britain where the natural reaction is to look at one’s shoes and pretend some feral child isn’t shouting Fk off! Fk off! and knocking things over… I prayed for them, and especially for the children.

** I realise this is an appalling generalisation. They had Irish accents and looked like gypsies, but I know I can’t and shouldn’t draw conclusions.*

 

[WaitingForJesus]

Today was… interesting! There was a group there who I took to be an Irish traveller* family - three generations’ worth, all dressed rather immodestly - and between them they caused chaos throughout Mass. One of them was texting all the way through the readings, and the two young children (I’d guess aged between 4-5) spent the whole time running around the church (including in and out of the pews, pushing past people), shouting (including some audible profanities during the silent parts of the Eucharistic Prayer ) and picking their way through the congregation, while either the mother or grandmother half-heartedly jogged around after them up and down the aisle with her flip flops squeaking, shouting C’mere! Stop it! I’m warnin’ you!. At one stage the priest stopped for about a minute and then asked, gently, “please be seated now.” No shame whatsoever.

So now I know people don’t get thrown out of Mass, or at least I suppose they don’t, and especially not in Britain where the natural reaction is to look at one’s shoes and pretend some feral child isn’t shouting Fk off! Fk off! and knocking things over… I prayed for them, and especially for the children.

** I realise this is an appalling generalisation. They had Irish accents and looked like gypsies, but I know I can’t and shouldn’t draw conclusions.*

Wow, sounds like it sure was! You are correct, no one gets thrown out of mass. Jesus wants everyone to come as they are so that all can receive his grace and mercy. It sounds like those children were not accustomed to attending mass. It is good they had the experience…although surely somewhat distracting for everyone else. Praying for them was definitely the way to go in that situation.

Over here we have “cry rooms”. We are encouraged to keep babies and small children in mass with us so they can learn how to behave. But, if they start melting down or can’t sit still, we take them in there until they have settled down.

 

[Euphon]

What a wonderful idea. I’ve never brought my children (2 years and 3 months respectively) to Mass because I think they’re much too young, but people do bring children and babies all the time; I don’t mind screaming kids, partly because I’ve been there and partly because the sound of a child in the church is a reminder of the future of the church, as well as a reminder God has not yet grown weary of us.

On one level, I felt desperately sorry for these children - but I was inspired by the priest’s kindly demeanour and forgiving attitude, and the fact that they were in the church at all, which says something for their parents: hopefully the church can help them all as the children grow older. For all my bellyaching (which wasn’t really meant as such, just that I’d always assumed there were unwritten rules of conduct for Mass, even weekday Mass), I’d ten times rather they be in the church than not.

It just set me wondering… what would one have to do to be asked to leave (host desecration? Standing up and denouncing God? Cracking open a can of lager? Peeing in the font?), or does that point simply never come…? This is a question I won’t be asking my priest/spiritual director tonight. Well, perhaps not with those creative examples anyway.

 

[pablope]

Today was… interesting! There was a group there who I took to be an Irish traveller* family - three generations’ worth, all dressed rather immodestly - and between them they caused chaos throughout Mass. One of them was texting all the way through the readings, and the two young children (I’d guess aged between 4-5) spent the whole time running around the church (including in and out of the pews, pushing past people), shouting (including some audible profanities during the silent parts of the Eucharistic Prayer ) and picking their way through the congregation, while either the mother or grandmother half-heartedly jogged around after them up and down the aisle with her flip flops squeaking, shouting C’mere! Stop it! I’m warnin’ you!. At one stage the priest stopped for about a minute and then asked, gently, “please be seated now.” No shame whatsoever.

So now I know people don’t get thrown out of Mass, or at least I suppose they don’t, and especially not in Britain where the natural reaction is to look at one’s shoes and pretend some feral child isn’t shouting Fk off! Fk off! and knocking things over… I prayed for them, and especially for the children.

** I realise this is an appalling generalisation. They had Irish accents and looked like gypsies, but I know I can’t and shouldn’t draw conclusions.*

Priests react differently. In our parish, our parish priest sometimes would stop the mass until it quited down.

When he does this, he makes the one making the ruckus self conscious, as everyone looks at what is going on. So sometimes, the children are taken out by the parents until they quiet down.

 

[pablope]

What a wonderful idea.

It just set me wondering… what would one have to do to be asked to leave (host desecration? Standing up and denouncing God? Cracking open a can of lager? Peeing in the font?), or does that point simply never come…? This is a question I won’t be asking my priest/spiritual director tonight. Well, perhaps not with those creative examples anyway.

There are usually ushers who deal with the unruly so as not to disrupt the mass. I have seen this in some parishes.

 

[jmcrae]

Priests react differently. In our parish, our parish priest sometimes would stop the mass until it quited down.

When he does this, he makes the one making the ruckus self conscious, as everyone looks at what is going on. So sometimes, the children are taken out by the parents until they quiet down.

We usually leave those who don’t seem to know any better alone, but I did see a priest take someone’s camera away from him after he had been politely told “no photography allowed,” and then continued to prance around with it as though his child were meeting Mickey, instead of receiving a Sacrament.

 

[Euphon]

At my meeting with the priest last night, I alluded to it and he smiled - my assessment of who they were was correct, and they were well known to him. Without breaking any confidences, he mentioned a couple of things which went some way to explaining what was happening, and he emphasised that despite some mental and social problems they are good people.

It’s a beautiful day today. Every day the sun has been out, sunlight has streamed through the cathedral windows at an appropriate moment during the Eucharistic Prayer; another humbling reminder of whose presence we are celebrating.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

It just set me wondering… what would one have to do to be asked to leave (host desecration? Standing up and denouncing God? Cracking open a can of lager? Peeing in the font?), or does that point simply never come…?

Yeah, that would get you sent out.

I was once at a midnight mass on Christmas eve and a drunk woman started shouting profanities at the priest during the homily. She then vomited on the floor, and when a friar went over to talk to her and to calm her down she started hitting him and swearing. A couple of men then came to rescue the friar and dragged her out, kicking and screaming. She was with a friend who also seemed quite drunk and she also vomited on the floor. But she was quiet and was left alone. I could see people walking over the vomit in the communion line later on, wondering about the squishy sound under their feet. It was awful. My mother and I tried to hide our laughter, it was out of nervousness and shock I think, and was like being in school and having a giggling fit. Absolutely terrible.

This was not in the UK by the way.