Converts from Islam

[txsoldier94]

Why does Islam seek converts from other religions, but anyone that converts from Islam, like Abdul Rahman is condemned to death or found to be mentally incompetent?

Surely, with such an enlightened religion, a religion of peace (as we are often told), people should have the freedom to condemn themselves to hell by their own choices, no?

More to the point, by executing converts, are they not cutting off any chance to redeem that person’s soul? Or are they so afraid that if they begin to allow converts away from Islam, that a trickle could become a tide?

Mik

 

[mchale]

Why does Islam seek converts from other religions, but anyone that converts from Islam, like Abdul Rahman is condemned to death or found to be mentally incompetent?

Surely, with such an enlightened religion, a religion of peace (as we are often told), people should have the freedom to condemn themselves to hell by their own choices, no?

More to the point, by executing converts, are they not cutting off any chance to redeem that person’s soul? Or are they so afraid that if they begin to allow converts away from Islam, that a trickle could become a tide?

Mik

Well, I would point out that there was a time when the Church was also hard on heretics and apostates. That being said, its been hundreds of years since Inquisition sentenced anyone to death.

Ultimately the question one must ask about sentencing apostates to death is whether it is an intrinsic part of the religion or if it was grafted on afterwards. I would argue that for Christianity at least, it was a grafted on element; demonstrated by the fact that Christianity has abandoned that practice. In contrast, it seems built into Islamic belief even as that belief claims that one must freely choose Islam. Such a basic conflict that remains unresolved doesn’t seem compatible to me.

–
Bill

 

[AgnosTheist]

That being said, its been hundreds of years since Inquisition sentenced anyone to death.

Hmmm another note. Its not uncommon hearing islamic imams and apologists preaching that its truly Islamic to sentence apostates to death.

Back in the days of the inquisition had there been priests & bishops who preached that killing apostates & heretics was really a christian doctrine?

 

[mchale]

Hmmm another note. Its not uncommon hearing islamic imams and apologists preaching that its truly Islamic to sentence apostates to death.

Back in the days of the inquisition had there been priests & bishops who preached that killing apostates & heretics was really a christian doctrine?

Well, the first goal of the Inquisition was to save souls. Therefore, anyone who would recant would generally not be executed. That being said, there were in fact priests and bishops who felt that it was necessary to kill those who might not only condemn themselves but also others with their apostacy.

–
Bill

 

[AgnosTheist]

That being said, there were in fact priests and bishops who felt that it was necessary to kill those who might not only condemn themselves but also others with their apostacy.

Im sure of that. But have there been actual preachings that Christians should kill apostates & heretics in the name of God?

 

[mchale]

Im sure of that. But have there been actual preachings that Christians should kill apostates & heretics in the name of God?

In some cases, yes. But the question is, did such teaching have the backing on the Magistareum? I am not sure.

–
Bill

 

[AgnosTheist]

Amy what is your opinion on muslim preachers who say that its Islamic to kill apostates? I’m sure you know which hadith these teachings come from.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

Hmmm another note. Its not uncommon hearing islamic imams and apologists preaching that its truly Islamic to sentence apostates to death.

Back in the days of the inquisition had there been priests & bishops who preached that killing apostates & heretics was really a christian doctrine?

I have some knowledge of the inquisition in Spain. It was the state that was afraid of apostates/heretics/underground muslims and jews. They were considered of danger to the government. The church was used to determine if they were, in actuality, heretics etc. but it was the state that imposed penalties. The church didn’t preach that it was good to kill heretics.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

I have some knowledge of the inquisition in Spain. It was the state that was afraid of apostates/heretics/underground muslims and jews. They were considered of danger to the government. The church was used to determine if they were, in actuality, heretics etc. but it was the state that imposed penalties. The church didn’t preach that it was good to kill heretics.

Aquinas did I beleive

 

[Sister_Amy]

Amy what is your opinion on muslim preachers who say that its Islamic to kill apostates? I’m sure you know which hadith these teachings come from.

AgnosTheist what is your opinion on American treason laws? What do you think is the appropriate punishment for treason?

 

[IvanKaramozov]

AgnosTheist what is your opinion on American treason laws? What do you think is the appropriate punishment for treason?

It is simply not justified to kill someone because they converted to Islam, and then became an unbeleiver, you can call them a traitor if you wish, and if you feel they are betraying the community that’s fine, but murdering a man because he speaks aghints Islam and is neither a drunk or mentally ill is wrong

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… More to the point, by executing converts, are they not cutting off any chance to redeem that person’s soul? …

We live in a sick world. There are enough people who want to wreck havoc on others by ensuring others do go to hell. I’ve heard some people believe all virgins go to heaven, so to ensure those virgins go to hell they are “systematically raped before the sentence is executed”. So, in answer to your question, they are probably being deliberate on “cutting off any chance to redeem that person’s soul”.

 

[ralphinal]

AgnosTheist what is your opinion on American treason laws? What do you think is the appropriate punishment for treason?

Sister Amy,
Why would you connect leaving Islam with treason? Whose life is in danger when a person leaves your faith?

 

[Sister_Amy]

The death penalty for apostasy in Islam is nothing other than a treason law. That’s exactly and only what it is.

You all know I’m sure the Qur’anic injunction that “there is no compulsion in religion.” You cannot force someone to believe. It is not someone’s change of beliefs which is the problem–it is switching sides in a conflict. Remember how Islam involves a system of government? This is part of it.

If there is no Islamic state–and by that I mean khalifa (caliphate)–then there is NO AUTHORITY to implement the death penalty for apostasy.

It is a treason law, and only applies in such cases as the apostasy is equivalent as treason. A Muslim becoming Catholic in America does not fall under this law.

 

[IvanKaramozov]

The death penalty for apostasy in Islam is nothing other than a treason law. That’s exactly and only what it is.

You all know I’m sure the Qur’anic injunction that “there is no compulsion in religion.” You cannot force someone to believe. It is not someone’s change of beliefs which is the problem–it is switching sides in a conflict. Remember how Islam involves a system of government? This is part of it.

If there is no Islamic state–and by that I mean khalifa (caliphate)–then there is NO AUTHORITY to implement the death penalty for apostasy.

It is a treason law, and only applies in such cases as the apostasy is equivalent as treason. A Muslim becoming Catholic in America does not fall under this law.

If it is a simple matter of treason then why the differences between one who was raised Muslim and then renounces it and one who converts to Islam and then leaves it?

 

[Sister_Amy]

If it is a simple matter of treason then why the differences between one who was raised Muslim and then renounces it and one who converts to Islam and then leaves it?

What differences? I’m not aware of any.

 

[ZuzuBailey]

How can you compare this to treason? That is a very uneven argument.
Treason could potentially bring down a country?
Their is more than one involved.
Potentially hurting many!

A women changing her religion to get away from Islam is NOT going to bring down the country.
there is only ONE involved! the one who changes; hurting NO ONE.

The death penalty for apostasy in Islam is nothing other than a treason law. That’s exactly and only what it is.

You all know I’m sure the Qur’anic injunction that “there is no compulsion in religion.” You cannot force someone to believe. It is not someone’s change of beliefs which is the problem–it is switching sides in a conflict. Remember how Islam involves a system of government? This is part of it.

If there is no Islamic state–and by that I mean khalifa (caliphate)–then there is NO AUTHORITY to implement the death penalty for apostasy.

It is a treason law, and only applies in such cases as the apostasy is equivalent as treason. A Muslim becoming Catholic in America does not fall under this law.

 

[Sister_Amy]

How can you compare this to treason? That is a very uneven argument.
Treason could potentially bring down a country?
Their is more than one involved.
Potentially hurting many!

A women changing her religion to get away from Islam is NOT going to bring down the country.
there is only ONE involved! the one who changes; hurting NO ONE.

You’re absolutely right.

The problem, for which the penalty is death, is in fact an act of treason and not a mere conversion. It has to be decided upon by a Muslim judge. Most people just don’t understand. It is a treason law. It is Islam’s treason law.

 

[ralphinal]

You’re absolutely right.

The problem, for which the penalty is death, is in fact an act of treason and not a mere conversion. It has to be decided upon by a Muslim judge. Most people just don’t understand. It is a treason law. It is Islam’s treason law.

Then why is it not fair to say that Islam is a political system as much as a religion? If leaving Islam is treason, then leaving Islam must be a betrayal of your nation.

 

[Reuben_J]

Of course Islam is a political system. Mohammad was a political person. Islamic government is a government of politic and politicians. Muslims would admit as much that there is no seperation between Islam and politic. What makes it so ultimately binding as a political entity like an iron claws which we can never escape from is because it is supposed to be attributed to God’s command and so no one on earth can question it.

Definitely it is not a matter of the heart. How can we kill someone for what they believe inside their hearts? How can we kill someone who change their mind about their belief? But Islam does in its apostate law.

Treason is only committed by citizens of a real earthly nation and Islam is one. How can we commit treason without a nation? How can we commit treason just by changing the way we think in our hearts?

God’s government is not on earth. No one should pronounce physical punishment and say it is from God. If human kills on the order from God then we don’t need any judgment after death since it is already meted out on earth.

How glaring, now come to think of it, that Islam is just a human idealogy.Karl Max or Mao were more straight forward than Islam but the purpose is no difference - that is to gain poltical power and dominance.