Converts from pentecostalism: worship?

[Reuben_J]

She made a very good point about her personality being suited to a certain form of prayer, and this is true for all of us. God has created an endless variety of personalities, and there is a style of devotion that works for everyone. It is a matter of finding one’s niche. I have been frequenting the Catholic Charismatic circles now for 30 + years, and I note that some who liked a more expressive form of worship in the past have now passed over into silent adoration. It seems that they have settled down with maturity?

Yet, there are some that are just as wound up and on fire as they ever were, and can’t sit still for an hour of adoration without bursting out in song and prayer.

I have shifted more toward the LOTH and the monastic observation of it used by the Benedictine community near here.

Some people like to join the choir, some like to hang with the youth because they like an exuberant form. Catholicism especially appeals to those who yearn for liturgical and formal prayer. I think that one reason we lose so many Catholics to protestant ecclesial communities is that the church does not offer opportunities to those who need to incorporate their emotions into their worship. This is a necessary and valid form of prayer, but it does not appear to have been practiced by the church since the early centuries.

I am glad to hear your long experience with the Renewal. That’s quite a long time and maybe you’re a second generation CC if not among the pioneers. Admittedly we had lots of problem earlier on – with the clergies, the church and even parish people. We were high in the Spirit, it sort of took us by the storm and many of us did not know how to deal with it. The most difficult part was the relationship with other people in the church. Time certainly teaches us wisdom and gives maturity that’s required to be part of a true church.

That’s what I noticed too – from expressive form of worship to silent adoration. Age does play a role in this too, I think. Having said that, and I am sure as perhaps you experienced, the Charismatics do revel in silent adoration and contemplative prayers from the very beginning. In fact by their spirituality they are easier disposed to this mode of prayer. If they should spend quiet time in prayers and meditation, trying to communicate with God tangibly and meditates on the Bible, spending time in quite adoration would be just as spiritually pleasurable for them. This is surely one aspect of Catholicism that many Charismatic seem to discover; especially for those who were ‘Sunday Catholics’ before they were renewed.

God bless.

 

[Reuben_J]

I want to worship God in spirit and in truth. And for me, that usually entails an emotional response.

I do have a lead on a place in a larger city near where I live. I am going to look into it, and see if I can make it work. I’m just nervous.

If this is any consolation, I think there is nothing wrong with emotionalism as long as we know what it is which I think seems to be the case for you (and mine too). We are emotional people. Personally I think it’s a fallacy to outright reject emotion as something that’s bad and cannot bring the positive. We should use it, recognize it when it happens and bring out the good that can come out of it. I can hardly remember when there is not at anytime when some kinds of tears are being shed at certain part of the mass. When something struck you, tears would just flow. It’s quite embarrassing for an adult and for quite a macho person to cry but you’d learn to live with it and not to be ashamed anymore.

It’s true that some Catholic Charismatic groups may go overboard in their praise and worship, and I can say with certainty, that’s surely not Catholic. But then again I cannot make judgment until we see for ourselves. Ultimately it will be our hearts that will tell us where we want to be and then go for it.

God bless.

 

[ConstantineTG]

I think this is just us being used to one form and then changing to another. When I started attending a Byzantine Rite UGCC parish not too long ago and until today, I do have trouble praying after Communion my own personal prayers, partly because there’s no kneeling in the Byzantine Rite. But I appreciate the community mentality of the Byzantine Rite that everyone is standing and singing hymns after Communion rather that each one praying their own prayer. I still don’t kneel to pray after Divine Litrugy and stand and pray, but its still a challenge. My mind is just not into that phase standing up, its a new routine for my mind and body and I have to get used to it.

So changing from hands up and waving and singing aloud and whathaveyou, to a liturgical form of worship is an even bigger change. Getting your mind to adapt to the change takes time. Imainge me all I lost was kneeling, the posture. I can imagine someone used to the Pentecostal way would have a bigger adjustment.

 

[guanophore]

I am a very emotionally driven person, and it’s hard when I am at mass to constantly try to hold back the tears and silence my prayers when I feel the Spirit of God on me, especially just after receiving.

Yes, I have this same trouble.

I want to find an outlet for that expression without the yelling/screaming/falling on the floor convulsing thing.

This is a very good thing.

Too many people were focused on the emotions themselves rather than God, and worshipping that emotion. I grew weary of “That was really good worship” as if it were for THEM. You know? I know not all pentecostals are this way, but a fair few were.

Yes, I do know. This is my biggest complaint about it.

The pentecostal groups I heard of for catholics in my area seem to be the falling-on-the-floor type.  They work THEMSELVES up, rather than enjoying the presence of God. It' sjust such a delicate balance and my trust is a little shaken.

I think your caution is warranted, but please do not go on rumors. I have frequented prayer groups across the country, and have rarely observed the kind or emotion based abuses that run rampant in Pentecostal circles. Do your own assessment, attend, pray, and God will give you discernment about a balance.

I can’t promise no one will fall on the floor, though. We have a charismatic pastor here that does the annointing of the sick once a month after an evening of adoration of the blessed sacrament. It is a quiet, peaceful,a nd very deep devotion, but people still end up falling on the floor.

I want to worship God in spirit and in truth. And for me, that usually entails an emotional response.

It is important for you to find a form of devotion that suits your particular gifts and disposition. I am sure you will find your niche.

I do have a lead on a place in a larger city near where I live.  I am going to look into it, and see if I can make it work.  I'm just nervous. ^_^

Trust in the Lord with all your heart, adn lean not unto your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct your paths.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Yes, I have this same trouble.

This is a very good thing.

Yes, I do know. This is my biggest complaint about it.

I think your caution is warranted, but please do not go on rumors. I have frequented prayer groups across the country, and have rarely observed the kind or emotion based abuses that run rampant in Pentecostal circles. Do your own assessment, attend, pray, and God will give you discernment about a balance.

I can’t promise no one will fall on the floor, though. We have a charismatic pastor here that does the annointing of the sick once a month after an evening of adoration of the blessed sacrament. It is a quiet, peaceful,a nd very deep devotion, but people still end up falling on the floor.

It is important for you to find a form of devotion that suits your particular gifts and disposition. I am sure you will find your niche.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart, adn lean not unto your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct your paths.

Thank you so much. I will get out there and see what I can find. I am so, so, so, so, SO glad to meet a charismatic catholic on here. We need to stay in touch!

 

[PastorForbes]

As someone who is Pentacostal ( hello!), I can imagine that you are feeling somewhat, shall we say, ‘restricted’. I have no doubt that were you to raise your hands durring mass that you would find yourself the unwelcome center of attention. However, I must ask why this sudden wish for your old way of worship? Could this perhaps be a symptom of something else? Is this desire for a more ‘charismatic’ style of worship interfearing with your prayer time, your personal worship of God? God is an intense God, sometimes our worship of Him needs to be reflective of that. If you feel like dancing, then dance. If you feel like raising your hands, then do so. There is nothing I know of in scripture that says these things are wrong, in fact it is the exact opposite. The Psalms are positively repleate with images of worship that we would consider ‘wild’. I submit that the reason your personal ‘charismatic’ worship does not satisfy your heart is because you’re ashamed of it. God can’t fill a heart that is full of itself, I say pray about this, seek God’s face on this subject, and act accordingly. Above all know that God created us in His image, therefore He knows exactly how we feel, and more importatly that we are emotional creatures. So relax, take a breath, it’s going to be ok.
In Faithful sisterhood-
PastorForbes

 

[guanophore]

I submit that the reason your personal ‘charismatic’ worship does not satisfy your heart is because you’re ashamed of it. God can’t fill a heart that is full of itself, I say pray about this, seek God’s face on this subject, and act accordingly.

Welcome to CAF Pastor Forbes, and to this thread. Before you make sweeping submissions of this kind, though, it might benefit you to read the thread. When you do this, it will be very clear that there is no shame in this yearning whatsoever. If you read carefully enough, it will also become clear that what she is yearning for is the connection that is achieved in the spiritual level when a group of people are fervently worshipping God with complete abandon.

This is an expereince that cannot be achieved when one is alone in devotion. I do agree that one can be as expressive as one desires during private devotions without shame, but there is a level of connection and ecstasy that comes when two or more are gathered that is quite different in quality.

This young lady is in no way full of herself, and her heart is clearly open and waiting upon God. You have judged her wrongly, unfairly, and through the lens of your own prejudices.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Welcome to CAF Pastor Forbes, and to this thread. Before you make sweeping submissions of this kind, though, it might benefit you to read the thread. When you do this, it will be very clear that there is no shame in this yearning whatsoever. If you read carefully enough, it will also become clear that what she is yearning for is the connection that is achieved in the spiritual level when a group of people are fervently worshipping God with complete abandon.

This is an expereince that cannot be achieved when one is alone in devotion. I do agree that one can be as expressive as one desires during private devotions without shame, but there is a level of connection and ecstasy that comes when two or more are gathered that is quite different in quality.

This young lady is in no way full of herself, and her heart is clearly open and waiting upon God. You have judged her wrongly, unfairly, and through the lens of your own prejudices.

Guanophore, thanks for that.

I am not ashamed of my pentecostal traditions. I just know that mass is neither the time nor the place for that kind of worship. God calls us to times of quiet reflection, and times for reckless abandon in our worship. Mass is a time of sheer reverence and honor, not this kind of rowdy worship my heart desires the other 6 days of the week . I am merely trying to find like-minded catholics who understand this that I can worship God with and find support with.

Although, I must admit, as a former pentecostal I do feel that there is much in that faith that I am ashamed for falling into. God is not MY servant to fill my emotional needs whenever I have need of him. I am there to be his, and his alone. And it is only a fulfillment of that which leads to the emotional aspect of the relationship. I dearly wish to worship in spriit and in truth with people I can trust not to abuse the emotional and rowdy aspects of worshipping the One True God.

I’d also like to add that it isn’t a sudden wish, but an ongoing one that I am only now feeling comfortable looking into due to the massive and horrific abuse that I saw taking place in the charismatic circles I was in. I NEVER want to see God used as a vehicle to gain fame and attention again, or to act like some kind of rock star. I say if you want to be a rock star, try out on American Idol.

 

[PastorForbes]

Welcome to CAF Pastor Forbes, and to this thread. Before you make sweeping submissions of this kind, though, it might benefit you to read the thread. When you do this, it will be very clear that there is no shame in this yearning whatsoever. If you read carefully enough, it will also become clear that what she is yearning for is the connection that is achieved in the spiritual level when a group of people are fervently worshipping God with complete abandon.

This is an expereince that cannot be achieved when one is alone in devotion. I do agree that one can be as expressive as one desires during private devotions without shame, but there is a level of connection and ecstasy that comes when two or more are gathered that is quite different in quality.

This young lady is in no way full of herself, and her heart is clearly open and waiting upon God. You have judged her wrongly, unfairly, and through the lens of your own prejudices.

Whoa-
Thanks for the welcome…I think…lol. Let me first say that I DID indeed read the thread, and would not have responded to it had I not given my response some thought. That being said, it was not my intention to say that the original postee was ‘full of herself’, but that her focus on what she feels she is missing might be robbing her of the joy she has found in her chosen faith.

As for myself, I don’t really have any prejudices against the Catholic faith, I have never been a part of that Church, so it is simply a language I don’t understand that is all. As someone who was raised in an Orthodox Jewish home, belive me I all to well understand that there are times when you yearn for something from that ‘old self’. For me I miss my language, Hebrew is a beautiful, expressive tounge and I miss being able to communicate with others that understand the social and religious history behind it. However, like the postee I would not bust out in Hebrew in the middle of a service just because I miss it, it would be disruptive and inappropriate.
My advice remains the same, to pray about this desire for a more emotional, 'charismatic' worship. To pray and to seek what God would have you do, maybe there is a reason for this longing, or perhaps it is something He wishes you to leave behind...one last thing to sacrifice?

 

[PastorForbes]

Guanophore, thanks for that.

I am not ashamed of my pentecostal traditions. I just know that mass is neither the time nor the place for that kind of worship. God calls us to times of quiet reflection, and times for reckless abandon in our worship. Mass is a time of sheer reverence and honor, not this kind of rowdy worship my heart desires the other 6 days of the week . I am merely trying to find like-minded catholics who understand this that I can worship God with and find support with.

Although, I must admit, as a former pentecostal I do feel that there is much in that faith that I am ashamed for falling into. God is not MY servant to fill my emotional needs whenever I have need of him. I am there to be his, and his alone. And it is only a fulfillment of that which leads to the emotional aspect of the relationship. I dearly wish to worship in spriit and in truth with people I can trust not to abuse the emotional and rowdy aspects of worshipping the One True God.

I’d also like to add that it isn’t a sudden wish, but an ongoing one that I am only now feeling comfortable looking into due to the massive and horrific abuse that I saw taking place in the charismatic circles I was in. I NEVER want to see God used as a vehicle to gain fame and attention again, or to act like some kind of rock star. I say if you want to be a rock star, try out on American Idol.

 I agree with you that there are times both for reverent worship and for abandon, and I can understand that mass is not the time or place for rowdy worship.  I agree with you that God is not like a gene that we can call on to fulfill our wishes when we choose.  I also agree wholeheartedly with you when you say that our relationship with Him is about our surrender to Him.  
I also understand that some Pentacostal congregations may abuse some of the more charismatic aspects of our faith, but I will also say that just like every faith, one can not judge them all by the conduct of one.   I belong to a Pentacostal church where there is a balance in worship, or at least I feel there is, worship is never the same two weeks in a row.  One week may be cheerful and rowdy and one week may be more subdued and prayerful.  I feel it is more about finding a balance than forsaking one for the other, as I am sure you do.  
As I said in a previous post, the Catholic faith is something I have very little understanding of, so please take all this as advice from a loving heart, and nothing I say is meant to be a personal judgement on you.  I am here more for exchanging of Ideas and to learn than anything else.  When I was this thread I felt I had something to contribute to the discussion, and I apologize if I have caused offence.

From reading this thread it seems that there are likeminded Catholics out there in the world, and I hope that you find what you are searching for.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I just called all the parishes within a 50 mile radius of my home, and I struck out. The only one I found is a Spanish only meeting. Obviously not for me - a lowly english speaker (as my parish frequently reminds me when I have to search for a different english speaking church every easter!)

Anyway, trying not to get frustrated here. Any ideas on how I can broaden my search? I’m at a loss here.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Is this desire for a more ‘charismatic’ style of worship interfearing with your prayer time, your personal worship of God? God is an intense God, sometimes our worship of Him needs to be reflective of that. If you feel like dancing, then dance. If you feel like raising your hands, then do so. There is nothing I know of in scripture that says these things are wrong, in fact it is the exact opposite. The Psalms are positively repleate with images of worship that we would consider ‘wild’.

[BIBLEDRB]Psalm 45:11[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[JustaServant]

[BIBLEDRB]Psalm 45:11[/BIBLEDRB]

Very true. There is something very beautiful about being in a Church alone to pray before the Tabernacle. It emphasizes very strongly the respect owed to Him when we enter into His Presence. Many times God cannot get through to us because we are not quiet long enough for Him.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Very true. There is something very beautiful about being in a Church alone to pray before the Tabernacle. It emphasizes very strongly the respect owed to Him when we enter into His Presence. Many times God cannot get through to us because we are not quiet long enough for Him.

I don’t think any of us would disagree with this. I love getting to church extra early so I can pray before the tabernacle before mass. I also know that there is a time for loud and expressive worship. TO “Shout for Joy” to God, our King, and to raise our hands and lift our voices. THere is a time for dancing and rejoicing.

Just as there is a time for silence, peace, and reverence, there is time for loud celebration of the goodness of our AWESOME GOD!!!

 

[ConstantineTG]

Even in the Byzantine Rite where there would be congregational singing almost all throughout the Divine Liturgy, there is no clapping or dancing or shouting. We just stand in fear, stand in awe of our God.

 

[Reuben_J]

Just as there is a time for silence, peace, and reverence, there is time for loud celebration of the goodness of our AWESOME GOD!!!

There is an appointed time for everything, and a time for every affair under the heavens.

 

[CB_Catholic]

There is a National Service Center for the Catholic Charismatic Renewal and also Magnificat Ministry for Women, which has chapters all over the US. You can Google these to find the websites. I’m sorry, I don’t know how to link. You might find something in your area through these websites, esp. Magnificat Ministry.

 

[JustaServant]

I don’t think any of us would disagree with this. I love getting to church extra early so I can pray before the tabernacle before mass. I also know that there is a time for loud and expressive worship. TO “Shout for Joy” to God, our King, and to raise our hands and lift our voices. THere is a time for dancing and rejoicing.

Just as there is a time for silence, peace, and reverence, there is time for loud celebration of the goodness of our AWESOME GOD!!!

WG, just remember our ways are not God’s ways, no matter how good it makes us feel. We have to conform to HIS way of worship, not ours.

 

[agapewarrior]

WG, just remember our ways are not God’s ways, no matter how good it makes us feel. We have to conform to HIS way of worship, not ours.

WG: God loves a cheerful giver, and I don’t believe this only applies to tithes. So with all gladness and rejoicing, I will praise His holy name. It’s whatever floats your boat JS, and God looks upon the heart behind our worship, not the lyrics or style. If you feel the presence of God best when you worship slow in a peaceful way, I encourage you to continue therein. Both: keep on loving God with all your heart and soul

 

[tundramom]

WG,
I understand completely what you mean. I am in the same boat. I went to a Charismatic Mass trying to recapture that old feeling. It didn’t work. I am not sure if the change is outward or inward. However I did find a solution!

I go to “Women of Faith” as often as I can. I also go to concerts given by Michael W. Smith, and more. I enjoy watching the concert and getting involved emotionally with everyone around me. True, I am worshipping God, but it is in the proper place… a concert! I know that for me, when I left the A/G church, I was at the point where I felt on display while singing on the worship team. Now I am a Cantor, and I try to bring that enthusiasm to that ministry, without the emotionalism.

You are not alone. Make sure that when you do participate in Mass, that you sing. That you pay attention with your whole being. Singing out loud at Mass sure helps and encourages the Cantor, I can tell you!

Steph