Converts: What was Protestant Communion Really Like?

[Jubilatae]

Responding to all those who have responded from Anglican or former Angilcan backgrounds, I do not doubt your love & sincerety.

We have to understand the history of this Anglican church and the role that Henry 8 had to play in the conception. His responsibility, & of course the grave political reasons at play in that country.

I have many Anglican friends in England, and you have to remember it is the church of the STATE, they are following what they know best. Through history, since the inception of the Church of Henry, no monarch has ever been allowed to marry a Catholic.

However, we believe that there is one Holy, Catholic, & Apostolic church, who is ready to embrace all those who return to the fold.

In the UK, the numbers of Anglican clergy who are, through their spiritual perception, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, coming into the Catholic church.

Peace be with you.
Jubilatae

 

[rr1213]

I could, up to and including Latin, incense and chanting, if I wasn’t running out the door. If there is an interest, I’ll try. But let me ask: were you using the 1979 book?

GKC

Yes, we used the 1979 Prayer Book, mostly Rite II but sometimes Rite I. I know that those in the Prayer Book Society don’t actually consider this to be a real BCP , but its what we used. And, actually, I see that I misspoke somewhat in my first post in this thread in that what I was describing was Rite II, not Rite I.

 

[GKC]

Yes, we used the 1979 Prayer Book, mostly Rite I but sometimes Rite II. I know that those in the Prayer Book Society don’t actually consider this to be a real BCP , but its what we used.

A member of my parish was a founding member of the SPBCP.

The 79 book has a couple of good points, actually.

GKC

 

[Brian_C]

Responding to all those who have responded from Anglican or former Angilcan backgrounds, I do not doubt your love & sincerety.

We have to understand the history of this Anglican church and the role that Henry 8 had to play in the conception. His responsibility, & of course the grave political reasons at play in that country.

I have many Anglican friends in England, and you have to remember it is the church of the STATE, they are following what they know best. Through history, since the inception of the Church of Henry, no monarch has ever been allowed to marry a Catholic.

However, we believe that there is one Holy, Catholic, & Apostolic church, who is ready to embrace all those who return to the fold.

In the UK, the numbers of Anglican clergy who are, through their spiritual perception, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, coming into the Catholic church.

Peace be with you.
Jubilatae

Don’t put the blame on Henry VIII. He didn’t envision his spat to become a permanent split. All the underlings who received the spoils of his seizure of Church property made reconciliation with Rome very difficult.

Sorry. Now back to topic.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

The Baptist churches I attended practiced semi-open communion, normally on the last Sunday of each month. I say semi-open because it was open to baptized believers ONLY. If you had prayed a sinner’s prayer but were not yet baptized, they asked that you not participate. (Funny coming from people who say baptism is just symbolic…) Normally the little squares of bread were passed down the pews, but we waited until everyone had theirs for the pastor to read the “This is my body” passage, then he would pray and we would all eat together. Then the little cups of grape juice were passed in the same manner, and we’d all drink together after the “This is my blood” verse was read, and a prayer was said. In the most recent Baptist church I attended, the Communion service was held after the regular evening service. A deacon would preach a mini-sermon, someone would sing a song, (I was asked to sing occasionally) and after this was the bread and grape juice ceremony.

We visited a Christian Church that had communion weekly. The words from 1 Cor 11 were usually read, then while music played, several trays containing the tiny squares of unleavened bread and the little cups of grape juice were passed around, each person consuming them as soon as they got them.

The “seeker friendly” church that my dh is still running sound for (and training his replacement! ) has an interesting view of communion. I attended briefly with him but after the following happened (I’m copying from another post on another forum) I couldn’t bring myself to go anymore:

I have been attending with my dh a very casual, very seeker-oriented, Gerber theology “church.” Secular music and Hollywood movie clips are common tools used during the service. It is virtually nothing like traditional church, and that by design. There is a definite attitude of disdain for anything that might resemble traditional church. Lots of jammin’ tunes that might mention Jesus, but maybe not.

I happened to be there early one Sunday (dh is running
their sound board) and saw them preparing for communion - by tearing open a box of Wheat Thins. I was a little put off at first, but I told myself that at least it was unleavened! In the Baptist churches I attended someone (usually a deacon’s wife) made the communion bread at home.

The first time the “lead teacher” (his title for himself, I guess
“pastor” would be too church-y) talked about communion, he gave me the impression that he wasn’t precisely sure what he believed. In one breath he said that this was a sacramental, sacred time, and that we should think to ourselves that we are eating and drinking the very body and blood of Christ. In the next breath he was saying that it was symbolic and he misquoted my Savior by saying that Jesus said “This represents my body” and “This cup represents the New Covenant in my blood.” Then he said that anyone who felt led to was welcome to partake. Anyone, believer or no.

A month later, again I saw the cracker trays and large cups of grape juice on the stage. During the opening songs, the lead teacher sits/stands on the front row. I saw him step up and grab a Wheat Thin off the tray and pop it in his mouth for a little pre-sermon snack, I guess. For me, this was just irreverent and totally defeats the idea of the elements or what they are supposed to “represent” being sacred.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

btw even if one doesnt agree with grape juice, Mr Welch did have God in mind, trying for a non alchol version, that didnt exist until he made it.

He made it with the finest grapes, his intent was honorable. It sounds so horrible to those here and is quite a put off. Obviously some have not had experience with alcholism, its awful.

Perhaps lightening up on the ewwww its grape juice would be nice, what say?

I will remind anyone that those outside of both churches see it as blood. The arguement is counter productive to any sort of unity.

 

[Della]

btw even if one doesnt agree with grape juice, Mr Welch did have God in mind, trying for a non alchol version, that didnt exist until he made it.

He made it with the finest grapes, his intent was honorable. It sounds so horrible to those here and is quite a put off. Obviously some have not had experience with alcholism, its awful.

Perhaps lightening up on the ewwww its grape juice would be nice, what say?

I will remind anyone that those outside of both churches see it as blood. The arguement is counter productive to any sort of unity.

I don’t recall anyone dissing grape juice. only citing that it is/was used.

Anyway, the Church understands about alcoholism, which is why it allows must to be used in place of wine for those who suffer from it.

 

[pismopal]

What planted the seed for me was the Baptist approach to the Eucharist or Communion. I am a convert and after reading John6 over and over I knew that the Baptist idea was not for me anyway. The particular church I went to was very regular with their “communion”, which was always on Sunday evening but only once a month but it just did not ring my bell. I am home thank G-d.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

I don’t recall anyone dissing grape juice. only citing that it is/was used.

Anyway, the Church understands about alcoholism, which is why it allows must to be used in place of wine for those who suffer from it.

If you start from the beggining and read all the posts, after a while they develop a “tone” to the word grape juice. And its been said outright too here and other posts.

So “must” is used in place of wine, what is that a separate cup?

In all the posts this is the first Ive heard of it, whatever it is

 

[Greg27]

In my experience before joining the CC no church offered communion; mostly just singing hymns, encountering the holy spirit, and bible study. It seemed a lot of the people aged 30 and below believed it was enough to intellectually assent to salvation, and the sacraments were not needed; I only took part for the first time in them at the CC.

 

[ronnok20]

Responding to all those who have responded from Anglican or former Angilcan backgrounds, I do not doubt your love & sincerety.

We have to understand the history of this Anglican church and the role that Henry 8 had to play in the conception. His responsibility, & of course the grave political reasons at play in that country.

I have many Anglican friends in England, and you have to remember it is the church of the STATE, they are following what they know best. Through history, since the inception of the Church of Henry, no monarch has ever been allowed to marry a Catholic.

However, we believe that there is one Holy, Catholic, & Apostolic church, who is ready to embrace all those who return to the fold.

In the UK, the numbers of Anglican clergy who are, through their spiritual perception, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, coming into the Catholic church.

Peace be with you.
Jubilatae

If you do not doubt our sincerety, then why do we need to go into the conversion to Catholicism topic again. Isn’t it enough that we do believe in the Real Presence unlike most all other Protestants? We Anglicans love our expression of faith and speaking for myself as an ex-cradle RC, I love the Anglican church and what it has meant for my spiritual life. I found the real Jesus there and couldn’t imagine myself back in the Catholic church or anywhere else. I must say that if you find a problem with King Henry and what he did or if you do not believe that our sacrements and priesthood our valid, then that’s your problem no our’s. I apologize if I sounded a bit brash, but I did find it necessary to respond to what you said here.

 

[MarysRoses]

If you start from the beggining and read all the posts, after a while they develop a “tone” to the word grape juice. And its been said outright too here and other posts.

So “must” is used in place of wine, what is that a separate cup?

In all the posts this is the first Ive heard of it, whatever it is

Must, or mustum, is the natural unpasteurized juice of the grape. Yeast is present naturally on the grapes, a tiny break from handling or from birds will begin the process of fermentation right on the vine, therefore even fresh must has a tiny amount of alcohol.

What we think of as grape juice has been pasteurized preventing any fermentation from occurring, which is actually an unnatural state for grapejuice, and could not have existed before the technology of preserving food with heat and aseptic packaging was available.

MarysRoses

 

[Aramis]

I spent the better part of a year at a Lutheran parish. The service was very much like the Roman Mass of the late 1980’s, except that the celebrant normally wore no chasuble, and there were separate glass communion cups for each, and communion was received kneeling at the altar rail, the host from the celebrant, and an EEM or the concelebrant carrying the tray of communion cups. Communion was offered weekly, but only at one mass; which one rotated.

Said parish had voted several times to come into the Catholic Church, but their buildings were not paid off, and they wanted to retain the Lutheran Mass.

The pastor and assistant pastor both believed in the transubstantiation. As did most of the parish.

 

[MelanieAnne]

Through history, since the inception of the Church of Henry, no monarch has ever been allowed to marry a Catholic.

Jubilatae

Maybe it’s never happened yet, but isn’t Camilla Catholic? or, WAS she Catholic & has now converted to C of E? Because, if Camilla is a Catholic, which I believe I read somewhere, a future monarch (assuming Charles outlives his mother) WILL be married to a Catholic. However, she will supposedly not been Queen. At least that’s what they say NOW. Who knows what the future may hold. Of course the best thing for Charles to do at this point is to abdicate in favor of William, but that’s just my opinion.

Now, back on topic. I was Episcopalian & now RC. One of the things I actually miss is kneeling at the communion rail as we did in the Episcopal church. I feel it is more reverent. But perhaps walking up to the Priest/Eucharistic Minister is more efficient for those hordes of Catholics! And our church certainly has plenty to serve!

But one of the things I APPRECIATE is that we RC’s have Mass every Sunday. Actually, we have it every day if you choose to go. Jesus asked us to remember Him in this way and I think it is the least we can do to remember Him AS HE ASKED US TO DO AT LEAST once a week! My goodness, He DID redeem us after all! So I do find it odd that some Protestant denominations only choose to have their form of communion once a month, or sometimes even once a quarter. They only want to remember Him occasionally?

And no one has mentioned the Mormons, perhaps because many do not consider them Christians, much less Protestants, but the Mormons think they are Christians, so I thought I’d mention them. I have Mormon friends, so I have witnessed their services from time to time in my life.

As I recall, they pass around trays of bread, followed by trays of water in little cups, and everyone takes one & passes it on. I don’t recall there being any age limit or catechism associated with the right to receive it, but I may have missed something. I also don’t recall any sort of blessing of the sacramental elements associated with the process. Perhaps I am wrong about that, but I found the entire business a bit odd.

 

[stephanut]

My non-denom church has communion every week, consisting of crackers and grape juice. I always look forward to it every Sunday, and whoever’s the pastor overseeing for that service’s communion often reminds us that it is the body and blood of Christ that we’re holding. I often wonder why certain churches list having too many people as a reason for not having communion weekly. Mine has nearly 5000 people at each service, and we get the elements distributed in under 10 minutes. I guess it’s a matter of how much you really want to remember Jesus!

On a side note, my friend in England attends this church where wine in a huge cup is passed down, and everyone takes a sip from the cup and wipes it with a towel provided. I think that’s awfully unhealthy, anyone has any thoughts about such practices?

 

[jfallaw]

In the evangelical churches I am used to, it is once a month, and not very reverent at all. They (i never participated, because I knew it was not really Christ) would hold the cracker up and the preacher would say some prayer about remembering Christ’s sacrifice, then the thimble of grape juice, and it would be over. The next day the custodian would vaccuum up all the dropped crackers. It was kind of pathetic. But I did go to a Church of Christ once, and they do it every service, and are much more reverent about it.

 

[MelanieAnne]

On a side note, my friend in England attends this church where wine in a huge cup is passed down, and everyone takes a sip from the cup and wipes it with a towel provided. I think that’s awfully unhealthy, anyone has any thoughts about such practices?

We have discussed this in our parish. We are a COMMUNITY. We share. So, because we share, we also share the cup. You can choose not to share if you are not comfortable with it. Since we know that the Body and Blood, Soul & Divinity of Jesus Christ is present at communion, I suppose that whichever choice you make about the cup is yours.

My thinking is that is odd that anyone would think that the Blood of Christ would harm them in any way.

 

[Brian_C]

On a side note, my friend in England attends this church where wine in a huge cup is passed down, and everyone takes a sip from the cup and wipes it with a towel provided. I think that’s awfully unhealthy, anyone has any thoughts about such practices?

It is standard practice in many if not most Catholic Churches today to receive from a common cup (or at least a few common cups). There has been debate on it that has probably been brought up in other threads. Most people claim to have never gotten anything from the practice but some priests insist they are always sick if they are pastoring a parish where it has been traditional to share the Host under both species.

 

[THutch04]

On a side note, my friend in England attends this church where wine in a huge cup is passed down, and everyone takes a sip from the cup and wipes it with a towel provided. I think that’s awfully unhealthy, anyone has any thoughts about such practices?

I don’t know, in my experience I’ve never gotten sick from it, but then again I also usually sit somewhere towards the front. And I have to say, I have occasionally gotten nervous whenever I would hear somebody coughing loudly before it was time to receive Communion (you technically did have a choice to receive from the cup or not in the Anglican church, but in my experience, it was pretty much expected that you would receive from it). I would certainly say though, that if you’re sick or if you tend to get sick easily, that it might be a good idea to not receive from the cup. But as Jesus is FULLY present in the Host AND the cup, there’s really nothing wrong with that.

 

[KarenNC]

I will say that I have never been to a communion service at any denomination (and I’ve seen quite a few different ones over the years) that was not reverent and meaningful to the participants. Didn’t matter if it was alcoholic or not, bought or homemade, wafer/bread/oyster cracker/melba toast, taken at the same time or independently, from a shot glass or a common cup, several times a day or quarterly, drunk or by intinction, kneeling or sitting, sanctus bell or not, etc.

No one has mentioned it from the point of view of someone serving on the Altar Guild in the Episcopal Church, so I will chime in with that. We used wafers and port in the parish where I served (another parish used homemade bread and wine). Consecrated wine and bread were either consumed by the clergy/altar guild or poured out on consecrated ground. The sink where one rinsed and washed the chalice and paten was plumbed directly to consecrated ground. The view was definitely that there was a real Presence in the consecrated host and wine. One woman that served with me used to get very upset at what she perceived to be a slight laxity in handling the host by an associate priest–“I know they’re hoovering up the Body of Christ after he gets done!” Intinction was fairly common in our parish, as was receiving only in one part if one felt that the common cup might be an issue for them that day.