Cooperation with Grace

[Michael16]

I’ll leave you with this and then I got to get some sleep.

Look at it like this: The word Reality serves the purpose of describing what happens in the Sacrament better than Promise.

Tell you what: I’d like to PM with you about what Pentecostals believe; if you’re willing. Nice chat, no debate. Just wanna know what y’all believe.

 

[ltwin]

Look at it like this: The word Reality serves the purpose of describing what happens in the Sacrament better than Promise.

Luther still believed in Real Presence, so I don’t think the use of “promise” is that big of a deal. The bigger deal, I think, is that the Reformers were keen on locating the sacraments’ efficacy in the Word of God–the promise of God. In fact the emphasis was on making the sacraments visible extensions of the Word. Whereas the feeling I get from what I’ve read about medieval Catholic theology is that the sacraments exist almost independently of the Word.

Tell you what: I’d like to PM with you about what Pentecostals believe; if you’re willing. Nice chat, no debate. Just wanna know what y’all believe.

Sounds good.

 

[Michael16]

From where do you get that feeling?

 

[ltwin]

From where do you get that feeling?

Maybe here.

God’s grace isn’t conferred by His Word in the Sacrament. It’s conferred by His action. Not favor; actual power from on High. I’ve felt it and I’ve seen it

Just kidding. I suppose I mean this. My understanding is that Aquinas taught that the sacraments themselves were instrumental causes of grace, distinguished from the principal cause which is God.

 

[Michael16]

It’s my understanding that the Sacraments are the visible and tangible signs of God’s grace.

Like when I go to Confession, I know for a fact that my sins are forgiven.

 

[De_Maria]

Just kidding. I suppose I mean this. My understanding is that Aquinas taught that the sacraments themselves were instrumental causes of grace, distinguished from the principal cause which is God.

Very good.

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/2112.htm
Summa Theologiae > First Part of the Second Part > Question 112
Article 1. Whether God alone is the cause of grace?

Reply to Objection 2. As in the person of Christ the humanity causes our salvation by grace, the Divine power being the principal agent, so likewise in the sacraments of the New Law, which are derived from Christ, grace is instrumentally caused by the sacraments, and principally by the power of the Holy Ghost working in the sacraments, according to John 3:5: “Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

You seem to be defending this. Yet, didn’t we just have a discussion where you denied the efficacy of any of the Sacraments?

 

[Vico]

…

Mark 3:28-29 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)​

28 “Truly I tell you, people will be forgiven for their sins and whatever blasphemies they utter; 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit can never have forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

1864 "Therefore I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."136 There are no limits to the mercy of God, but anyone who deliberately refuses to accept his mercy by repenting, rejects the forgiveness of his sins and the salvation offered by the Holy Spirit.137 Such hardness of heart can lead to final impenitence and eternal loss.

 

[ltwin]

You seem to be defending this.

Defending what?

Yet, didn’t we just have a discussion where you denied the efficacy of any of the Sacraments?

I guess it depends on how you define efficacy. I do believe the sacraments (baptism and the Lord’s Supper) are means of grace (along with prayer and preaching the Word) by which God strengthens and confirms our faith in his promises.