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Rafaela
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This blog is more or less what I think is right: “Why You Don’t Have to Use NFP”. I know some people would get crazy for me saying this, but I do think that taking NFP dead seriously (i.e. zealotry) could lead into contraceptive mentality. 
catholicsistas.com/2012/05/11/why-you-dont-have-to-use-nfp/
catholicsistas.com/2012/05/11/why-you-dont-have-to-use-nfp/
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Rita77
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Its about the extremism of some believing there is no reason grave enough or most people to use nfp and pushing that belief on others. I think reasons for nfp are between the couple and their priest.
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1ke
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What’s your point?
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Rita77
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thanks for sharing that was a great article almost the opposite kind of zealotry on the other side of nfp. it goes both ways. the article I posted (his tilte is a little confusing) should be coping with quiverful zealotry. I think most of us can agree on a happy middle ground but their are some on CAF who’s advice to nfp troubles is always " just have a baby".This blog is more or less what I think is right: “Why You Don’t Have to Use NFP”. I know some people would get crazy for me saying this, but I do think that taking NFP dead seriously (i.e. zealotry) could lead into contraceptive mentality.
catholicsistas.com/2012/05/11/why-you-dont-have-to-use-nfp/
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lifeisbeautiful
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Hmm, someone said in a comment: Every married couple needs to ask themselves (and God) whether they are truly trusting God and whether they are using NFP selfishly.
and the author of the article responded:
No. Every married couple using NFP needs to be commended for obedience to Holy Church, to relax, and to be free of the scruples that those who wish to be more rigorous than the Church would oppress them with. Why do we tie up heavy burdens God does not require and lay them on the backs of the very people who are—obviously—trying the hardest to think and act with the mind of the Church? If you are practicing NFP, it’s good enough. Don’t let anybody lay any judgment on you beyond that.
and the Catechism says:
For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood.
I have to disagree with the article (and comment), although obviously the general idea of not putting undue burdens on others is correct… Yes, we should not let others take away our peace with rules made up by them, but we do need to see the Truth and know we do need to have reasons to use NFP, this isn’t a rule made up by random people, just using NFP isn’t “good enough”. The Truth is not an undue burden. We do have a responsibility beyond using NFP instead of ABC.
Mary_Gail_36
New member
I did like the Mark Shae article…I think Catholics who use NFP do so to try to be obedient to the Church.
I’m a revert to the faith. I did not practice the faith, I did not leave to join another faith.
When we were first married, we used ABC. We didn’t start using NFP to avoid until after my second child was born.
I regret completely using ABC. But in going over the first couple of years of our marriage with a fine tooth comb, we did have just reasons to avoid. We used sinful methods to avoid, that was our sin.
There is an article on EWTN’s website that says that NFP use causes couples to be less selfish, even if they start with a selfish attitutde.
I think it’s charitable to believe that the couple using NFP is doing so properly, instead of assuming lots of them aren’t, most are doing it seflishly.
I think that was Mark Shae was saying.
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lifeisbeautiful
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I agree we should not assume anything about others, and of course we should be charitable, but he said
“The same principle applies here. The simple fact is that the Church asks of the faithful that they be open to life by not practicing artificial contraception. Period. If you are looking for a place to stand, stand on that. All the guilt-mongering spiritual comparisons inflicted on those with small families by the Elite is just the sin of judgmentalism. Those people are not your judge, God is. If you are doing the Church asks, you are doing what God asks.”
If he wants to say that we shouldn’t assume, he should say that, Period.
Suggesting we are just fine as long as we use NFP is not the same thing as saying we should ignore the people that incorrectly judging us because of rules that they made up.
It isn’t the same and it is not helpful to couples might not even know they need to have a good reason to use NFP. It might make a couple that has felt judged by others for using NFP cheer for Mark Shea, for calling out all those judgmental people out there…
And reading other parts of the article and commentary, I am wondering what exactly is being made up? Anything that goes against " If you are practicing NFP, it’s good enough."?
Why does he say this is wrong:
“Every married couple needs to ask themselves (and God) whether they are truly trusting God and whether they are using NFP selfishly.” ?
when the Catechism says:
" It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood."
Do we not need to discern if we are trusting in God?
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manualman
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This is all true, but it is kind of like arguing that we really need to stress to people how important it is to breathe properly! After all, inadequate blood oxygen content is one of the most quickly fatal of all medical conditions!!!
Those using NFP to avoid pregnancy are retaining God’s built-in reminders about the joys of selfless parenting, not to mention a rather insistent lie biological lie detector regarding the allegedly serious reason for avoiding. Contraception isn’t sinful because small families are inherently sinful! Contraception is sinful because it alters the nature of what sex IS and makes it an unrelated topic to procreation in people’s minds. This cheapens it in ways incompatible with God’s design.
So lay off the NFP people. They’ve already turned off the culture’s noise and will not likely have much trouble hearing the still small voice.
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Debora123
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Awesome. Thank you for posting this.
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lifeisbeautiful
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See… this is what I don’t get… and it kind of goes with the topic…“So lay off the NFP people”… what prompted you to say that, from what I wrote? I am just curious.This is all true, but it is kind of like arguing that we really need to stress to people how important it is to breathe properly! After all, inadequate blood oxygen content is one of the most quickly fatal of all medical conditions!!!
Those using NFP to avoid pregnancy are retaining God’s built-in reminders about the joys of selfless parenting, not to mention a rather insistent lie biological lie detector regarding the allegedly serious reason for avoiding. Contraception isn’t sinful because small families are inherently sinful! Contraception is sinful because it alters the nature of what sex IS and makes it an unrelated topic to procreation in people’s minds. This cheapens it in ways incompatible with God’s design.
So lay off the NFP people. They’ve already turned off the culture’s noise and will not likely have much trouble hearing the still small voice.
And I don’t get the breathing comparison either… Breathing comes naturally… Being unselfish does not necessarily come naturally (lol, at least not to me!) and no one is immune to it… and it is possible to use NFP for selfish reasons… no? Why is it so horrible to acknowledge it can happen? How could it be any better to omit this information in a discussion regarding the morality of using NFP to avoid?
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pentecostbaby
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You probably can use NFP selfishly. But anyone with a healthy sex drive is going to have a pretty hard darn time doing it. The point is this: who are we to judge what situation leads NFP to be used selfishly? And what does it mean, ‘to use it selfishly’? To forgo sex so you can buy a second vacation home?
If you’re ‘using NFP selfishly’, I would venture to say that there is a heck of a lot else wrong in your marriage than should-we-have-a-baby-now.
Mary_Gail_36
New member
I easily relate to how you write about NFP.This is all true, but it is kind of like arguing that we really need to stress to people how important it is to breathe properly! After all, inadequate blood oxygen content is one of the most quickly fatal of all medical conditions!!!
Those using NFP to avoid pregnancy are retaining God’s built-in reminders about the joys of selfless parenting, not to mention a rather insistent lie biological lie detector regarding the allegedly serious reason for avoiding. Contraception isn’t sinful because small families are inherently sinful! Contraception is sinful because it alters the nature of what sex IS and makes it an unrelated topic to procreation in people’s minds. This cheapens it in ways incompatible with God’s design.
So lay off the NFP people. They’ve already turned off the culture’s noise and will not likely have much trouble hearing the still small voice.
In my world, I know no actual people that admit to using NFP – and a few that admit to using ABC. Someone I know admitted that her DH had a vasectomy, following her difficult labor to not “put her through that again”.
DH and I used contraceptives. DH was told by a priest, “When are you going to stop using what you are using.” It took a bit to convince me, but we stopped in 2003 and have not contracepted since then. We conceived DD shortly after stopping, and since her birth we have used NFP.
I feel that DH and I put an enormous amount of trust in God – even in our use of NFP. We try (DH and I) to remain in a state of grace, and to remain open to what God wants. For the past 4 years, NFP has been tough. I suffered 2 miscarriages and a premature delivery of a baby at 28 weeks. I produce very little progesterone, and even with supplementation my post peak period is only 10 days.
I honestly feel that couples that are using NFP are trying to do what God wants.
It is difficult to practice NFP without a just reason. I can see resentment by one of the spouses occurring very easily, if the reasons are not just. I can see the temptation to use artificial means growing if the reasons are not just. And I can see, (and experienced) a total transformation from “Not the right time…” to “why not?” when the couple is being faithful to the Church.
Personally, I’ve faced these comments from doctors: “Don’t use the rhythm method, that doesn’t work, we could put in an IUD” or “The Church is wrong on this, I pray for it to change.” Or, “Can’t you get a dispensation for methotrexate” when I was misdiagnosed for an ectopic. 3 different doctors.
Mary_Gail_36
New member
I agree with you.
I think (I think about this often) that selfish use is when perhaps the couple isn’t on the same page regarding postponing a child, or it’s used as a tool to avoid the other spouse sexually.
But this type of selfishness would indicate a problem in the marriage, more than a problem in discerning avoiding or conceiving.
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lifeisbeautiful
Guest
I guess this is what I don’t get… The wording in the Catechism is carefully selected…
why would the Catechism specifically address the need to make certain that selfishness is not a motive if it were so difficult for this to happen?
2368 A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood.
And Mary Gail, the fact that it can be used selfishly does not cancel out the fact that some people have very good reasons to avoid and are putting themselves in God’s hands by being open (as in not contracepting) and carefully charting to avoid because they need to. I have someone in my family that had to avoid for many years until the end of their fertility, and they were a great example of sacrifice and trust in God. The Church knows the importance of sex in marriage. NFP is there for a reason, it is a wonderful gift and has many beautiful benefits when used as it should be used. None of this contradicts the fact that the Church lets us know that it is our duty to make certain we are not motivated by selfishness and that “… human life and the duty of transmitting it are not limited by the horizons of this life only: their true evaluation and full significance can be understood only in reference to man’s eternal destiny.” (2371 Catechism)
Why is it that mentioning this is automatically an assault against anyone using NFP? It isn’t! There is no way for us to know what is in other people’s hearts, what circumstances they are in, etc etc… so it would be silly to even try to assume we know any couple’s exact circumstances, but when sharing the Truth, we should share the whole Truth. Our goal is to share the Truth, and people can make decisions based on the Truth.
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dixieagle
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It is my opinion that those couples who have truly “selfish” reasons for avoiding/postponing pregnancy are not generally inclined to undertake the self-denial involved in practicing NFP.
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etmom
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manualman
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That’s my point. God is a pretty clever guy, He designed the human body/soul with built in self-corrections that have largely survived the fall. We are still good, if fallen.
When a couple practices NFP to avoid pregnancy, they retain that complex built-in self regulating design that is ordered towards nudging the couple to recognize the potential joys of further children. Contraception by its very nature, short circuits those regulating systems. Thus the comparison to breathing. It’s not a perfect analogy because you can’t choose to hold your breath until you asphyxiate. You’ll pass out and start breathing. But how often do you take it that far? Not often, I’ll wager. Same reason: God made humans with an amazing degree of self correcting tendencies. If we respect those natural systems and don’t go around them, we can avoid inflicting a lot of misery on ourselves and others.
Food is an even better analogy. In less industrialized settings where people raise crops and livestock and use basic preservative techniques for seasonal food storage, obesity is almost non-existant. In wealthy industrialized countries where food comes in processed packages in drastically higher concentrations of sugar and simple starches, obesity is practically the norm. Why? Because humans developed a system that short circuits God’s design for self-correction and regulation. COULD you get fat living in a low tech agrarian culture? Yes, but it’s pretty rare. IMO, the couple sinfully using NFP for selfish and shallow purposes is a similar phenomenon. Which is why the topic receives appropriately minor attention in HV and the catechism.
When a couple practices NFP to avoid pregnancy, they retain that complex built-in self regulating design that is ordered towards nudging the couple to recognize the potential joys of further children. Contraception by its very nature, short circuits those regulating systems. Thus the comparison to breathing. It’s not a perfect analogy because you can’t choose to hold your breath until you asphyxiate. You’ll pass out and start breathing. But how often do you take it that far? Not often, I’ll wager. Same reason: God made humans with an amazing degree of self correcting tendencies. If we respect those natural systems and don’t go around them, we can avoid inflicting a lot of misery on ourselves and others.
Food is an even better analogy. In less industrialized settings where people raise crops and livestock and use basic preservative techniques for seasonal food storage, obesity is almost non-existant. In wealthy industrialized countries where food comes in processed packages in drastically higher concentrations of sugar and simple starches, obesity is practically the norm. Why? Because humans developed a system that short circuits God’s design for self-correction and regulation. COULD you get fat living in a low tech agrarian culture? Yes, but it’s pretty rare. IMO, the couple sinfully using NFP for selfish and shallow purposes is a similar phenomenon. Which is why the topic receives appropriately minor attention in HV and the catechism.
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lifeisbeautiful
Guest
The Catechism is being very clear in telling us we have a duty to make sure we don’t have selfish motives. If you think selfishness is so rare that it is unnecessary to mention it when talking about NFP (like the author mentioning that using NFP is good enough, and no, we don’t have to make sure we are trusting in God and evaluating our motives), that is your opinion, but the Church does mention it in the Catechism, and goes as far as to say it is a duty; in obedience to the Church we do have to comply with our duty, evaluating our motives to make sure they are not selfish. If being selfish here is almost impossible, why would the Church make a point of saying it is our duty (not a suggestion, but a duty) to evaluate our motives to make sure we are not be selfish? Just wondering. Instead of assuming we know each persons situation perfectly, which we don’t, and know if they do or don’t have good reason, we just need to be charitable, assume the best, yet show what the Church is saying and let the individual couples discern on their own. Just as it is not up to us to tell others they don’t have a good reason, when we don’t even know their whole situation, it is not up to us to reassure others that if they are using NFP they probably don’t have selfish motives. It is up to them (their duty) to discern it. If they are not sure, they can talk with a spiritual advisor.
Blanket statements that we don’t really have to worry about our motive using NFP that much since it is like breathing or like consuming healthy food, that it is very difficult/rare to do it wrong (which seems to be an opinion) are not helpful and do not seem to be 100% in line with what the Catechism tells us, about our duty in evaluating our motives, including how the true evaluation and full significance of human life and our duty of transmitting it can only be understood in reference to man’s eternal destiny (I’m not sure why you would consider these minor statements):
2368 A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children.** It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood.**
2371 "Let all be convinced that human life and the duty of transmitting it are not limited by the horizons of this life only: their true evaluation and full significance can be understood only in reference to man’s eternal destiny."161
I do understand in general how NFP with its sacrifices could even lead people that are having trouble with selfishness to be more generous, but this does not mean we can just assume that it always happens and that we don’t have to worry about discerning because it will work itself out. The Truth is we have to evaluate our motives. For some people, just a leap from ABC to NFP is a huge step closer to God, and that is awesome. They are being generous and trusting in doing this leap regardless of their motives to avoid. We are all on different parts of our spiritual path, but this does not change that our Church in Her wisdom is telling us it is our duty to discern whether we have unselfish reasons to avoid. Maybe that is the next step for that couple. We are all called to be saints.
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fpt
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N.FP. is only a part of the concept of responsible procreation. The notion of responsible procreation is larger. Thus, in the marriage, the couple has to question itself on responsible procreation that has several elements:
To take care or to educate children. What is the level and the degree of the moral education in the catholic meaning?
The respect of father, of mother and of children already here.
The issues of absolute procreationism and of absolute physiologism: absolute motherhood, absolute fatherhood, I mean the doctrine of absolutism to make babies during marital act. The question of theoretical providentialism, of quiverfull movement.
Procreation is not only reproduction??
Also, the issues of role of wife and of husband in the couple and in the family.
Per se and formally, according to the catholic teaching, it is not required to ask the advice of priest for practicing N.F.P. It is not a formal condition asked by the catholic church.
Statements, that is coming from catholic lay persons about NFP, are not very catholic.
“ NFP, while distinguishable from contraception in not being absolutely immoral, is seldom licit and always regrettable.”
“ Most married couples (especially in the wealthy West) are perfectly capable of having large families, and most reasons cited for not having large families are bogus.”
“ Couples who choose to have large families are making the religiously and morally superior choice.”
“ Since selfishness is such a near and present danger, no one should practice NFP without first consulting a priest.”
“ The following do not constitute valid reasons for using NFP: wanting to finish your education; wanting to save up for children’s future education; being tired; being stressed; being burdened by debt; having to move; having a small, crowded house; being depressed; feeling overwhelmed, etc.”
" The natural family planning is a concession to human weakness. The ideal is to have sex only when you are happy to have children."
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