Coptic -- A teaching on the Our Father

[Babaganoush]

Neither name is an official name. They both consider themselves to be the Orthodox Catholic Church., just as we do. Oriental or Eastern is just a convenient way for us to refer to them In English. The names we call ourselves and each other are just for convenience.

 

[Babaganoush]

They accept the homo-ousios Of the creed. They reject the claim of ‘in two natures’ from the council of Chalcedon. They will say that Christ is one nature ‘from two’ or ‘out of two’. After the union it is one though. They opposed the Assyrians belief that Christ had two separate natures. The definition of chalcedon was an attempt to explain that Christ is both human and divine within one hypostasis (meant nature in Greek but was associated with the whole person by Chalcedon).

 

[George720]

They accept the homo-ousios Of the creed. They reject the claim of ‘in two natures’ from the council of Chalcedon. They will say that Christ is one nature ‘from two’ or ‘out of two’. After the union it is one though. They opposed the Assyrians belief that Christ had two separate natures. The definition of chalcedon was an attempt to explain that Christ is both human and divine within one hypostasis (meant nature in Greek but was associated with the whole person by Chalcedon).

That may be the crux - I have encountered this understanding previously - eg That the human nature of Christ is a new nature that is one nature, and not two natures, one human and one divine… But instead is one brand new nature… A combined nature, as it were…

Whereas the Orthodox understand it as one Hypostasis containing two natures - Human and Divine… For the EOC, such a “single new nature” understanding is error, but for the Coptic Church, one God having two natures is not thinkable - One person has one nature on the Coptic view…

Nature = physis in Greek…
And physis has its foundational hypostasis…
And the hypostasis in fallen man is divided…
And Christ assumed and healed this fallen humanity in Himself

Thank-you for your singularly helpful post, Baba’…

geo

 

[Babaganoush]

That isn’t an accurate reading of what they believe. They rejected a mixture of natures. That was the Monophysite heresy they were accused of even though they rejected it.

 

[Medawlinno]

The current Pope of the Coptic Orthodox Church is Tawadros (Theodore) II. The 118th in the line from St. Mark.

One of the cool things about the church is that they have preserved the Egyptian language (as spoken after the Hellenization of Egypt so tons of Greek loan words), but when you hear the Our Father in the traditional Bohairic Coptic pronunciation (not the so-called Greco-Bohairic pronunciation which is based on Greek), you’re essentially listening to the language of Cleopatra’s Egypt. It’s a language which is in the process of being modernized and various attempts are being made to bring it back as a modern language, much the same way that Hebrew was brought back.

It’s pretty neat to get an e-mail written entirely in Coptic talking about modern everyday things.

But I digress…

 

[George720]

They will say that Christ is one nature ‘from two’ or ‘out of two’.

They rejected a mixture of natures.

Then they had to embrace a new nature in Christ…

You see, we hold that Christ as the Logos of God CONDESCENDED to take on the fallen human nature of man, and heal it, and raise it in His Own Body by making it Divine by Grace…

That isn’t an accurate reading of what they believe.

What would you understand to be accurate?

geo

 

[George720]

Cleopatra’s Egypt… a language which is in the process of being modernized and various attempts are being made to bring it back as a modern language

The problem they have is the enforcement of Arabic as the only language permissible outside the walls of the Church…

geo

 

[Medawlinno]

Yes, in Egypt that’s the case, but the revitalization of Coptic is actually being done here in the US and Canada. I’ve had the pleasure of working with a group of Copts several years ago who were at the forefront of trying to “revive” this language as an everyday spoken language.

One of the barriers is that many Copts regard it as almost a “sacred language” (likely since they’ve only ever heard it in the liturgy), so kind of see saying something like “Dude, text me when you’re on your way to pick me up to go to the pub” as somehow almost ‘sacrilegious’.

Many seem to forget that at one time, Coptic/Egyptian was just a common everyday language.

 

[George720]

Yes, in Egypt that’s the case, but the revitalization of Coptic is actually being done here in the US and Canada. I’ve had the pleasure of working with a group of Copts several years ago who were at the forefront of trying to “revive” this language as an everyday spoken language.

One of the barriers is that many Copts regard it as almost a “sacred language” (likely since they’ve only ever heard it in the liturgy), so kind of see saying something like “Dude, text me when you’re on your way to pick me up to go to the pub” as somehow almost ‘sacrilegious’.

Many seem to forget that at one time, Coptic/Egyptian was just a common everyday language.

That is wonderful news! I’m going to call my friend!

The word “Copt” is a different spelling for the same root “Gypt” of the word Egypt…

The Muslims took their Coptic Language away from them - And they are getting it back in the freedom found in the USA…

Glory to God!

I love this country!

geo