Coptic bishop blasts Anglican bishop over Islam

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pro, and all I am asking you to do is state your faith based on the Catholic faith. We don’t believe in Muhammed or the quran btw. So why won’t you say it?

Look at my last response:
  1. You regard disagreeing with Islam as “bashing”.
  2. You regard the statement that the US would respond to a wmd attack with it’s own wmd as wrong. Sure you may not like it, but it is a fact that is what we would do.
  3. You refuse to state your views on Muhammed or the quran and regard it as “bashing” to not believe in them.
 
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cestusdei:
pro, and all I am asking you to do is state your faith based on the Catholic faith. We don’t believe in Muhammed or the quran btw. So why won’t you say it?

Look at my last response:
  1. You regard disagreeing with Islam as “bashing”.
  2. You regard the statement that the US would respond to a wmd attack with it’s own wmd as wrong. Sure you may not like it, but it is a fact that is what we would do.
  3. You refuse to state your views on Muhammed or the quran and regard it as “bashing” to not believe in them.
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I’ll point out what’s missing:

Any authoritative work from the Church to support your claims.

The more you avoid the question, the more you make it clear that you are either not a Priest, or that you are one who works against the stated Mission of the Church to make peace and understanding between muslims and Christians.
 
The mission of the Church is not to pretend Islam is being friendly when it is killing Christians right and left.

Tell you what. Let’s phrase my question in a postive way. Tell me who you think Muhammed was and the quran is?
 
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cestusdei:
The mission of the Church is not to pretend Islam is being friendly when it is killing Christians right and left.

Tell you what. Let’s phrase my question in a postive way. Tell me who you think Muhammed was and the quran is?
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The Vatican has produced statement after statement that we are obliged to find common ground, to not attack, and to reject war against Muslims.

How do you serve this purpose?
 
So tell me what you think about Muhammed and the quran? I am putting this positively and giving you the chance to say what you think in a non-bashing way. Please share with us.
 
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cestusdei:
So tell me what you think about Muhammed and the quran? I am putting this positively and giving you the chance to say what you think in a non-bashing way. Please share with us.
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usccb.org/seia/textsislam.htm

I will follow the words of the Church:
Paul VI, Ecclesiam Suam 107, August 6, 1964
“Then [we refer] to the adorers of God according to the conception of monotheism, the Muslim religion especially, deserving of our admiration for all that is true and good in their worship of God.”
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pro_universal:
The Vatican has produced statement after statement that we are obliged to find common ground, to not attack, and to reject war against Muslims.

How do you serve this purpose?
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How does one find common ground with a determined enemy with clearly stated goals who crashes transport aircraft filled with people in buildings, or blows up trains, or blows up buses, ad infinitum?
What are we just supposed to roll over, die, and sing kumbaya with Islam?
 
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cestusdei:
I would like to hear your own words.
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I respect and admire all that is true and good in Islam, and refuse to make any statements that would work against more cooperation and brotherhood between my Church and Muslims.

Now I’d like to hear your teachings, as you see it coming from or departing from the Church’s perspective.
 
Any muslim could say that because they think it is all good and true. You still obfuscate, but want me to be more specific. That’s not to fair. Just tell me specifically who you think Muhammed was and what the quran is. In your own words. If you bash then it will be your fault not mine. This is an open ended question. I can’t be any fairer or give you any better chance. Why should you object to saying what you think?
 
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cestusdei:
Any muslim could say that because they think it is all good and true. You still obfuscate, but want me to be more specific. That’s not to fair. Just tell me specifically who you think Muhammed was and what the quran is. In your own words. If you bash then it will be your fault not mine. This is an open ended question. I can’t be any fairer or give you any better chance. Why should you object to saying what you think?
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The more you refuse, the more clear it is that you are either misrepresenting yourself as a Priest, or that you are working actively against the mission of the Vatican.

Either way, I believe your superiors would have something to say about it.
 
Hey Pro. You can’t have it both ways. Either he is a priest with superiors or not. See what I mean about hatred clouding your brain?
 
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brotherhrolf:
Hey Pro. You can’t have it both ways. Either he is a priest with superiors or not. See what I mean about hatred clouding your brain?
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Uh, how is that clouding my brain?

If you are a lay person, your Priest has a message to send to you about the command to be peaceful and work for mutual understanding.

If you are a Priest, doubly so for the Bishop.
 
Depends. Cardinal Biffi would say I am being to irenic. I know a Sudanese priest who would say I was way to liberal. The Copts would agree with me, but only privately. There are a broad range of views in the Church. B16 did not always agree with JPII’s trusting stance towards Islam. We will see some changes. Frankly I don’t think it is a peaceful situation when my fellow Catholics are being beheaded for their faith. You don’t care about them one bit. You care far more for those swinging the sword. Hopefully your view will be balanced by others.

But I can say this. I will never chop off a Muslims head. If they would agree to not chop off our heads then things would be more peaceful. Don’t you you think?
 
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cestusdei:
Depends. Cardinal Biffi would say I am being to irenic. I know a Sudanese priest who would say I was way to liberal. The Copts would agree with me, but only privately. There are a broad range of views in the Church. B16 did not always agree with JPII’s trusting stance towards Islam. We will see some changes. Frankly I don’t think it is a peaceful situation when my fellow Catholics are being beheaded for their faith. You don’t care about them one bit. You care far more for those swinging the sword. Hopefully your view will be balanced by others.

But I can say this. I will never chop off a Muslims head. If they would agree to not chop off our heads then things would be more peaceful. Don’t you you think?
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Great, do you have any authoritative documents to support your views specifically?
 
Well you can look up what Biffi said I suppose. You could read what Ratzinger said. Or consider the curial moves he has made. John Allen has some views on that at NCR. You can of course ask some Sudanese Christians how they felt they were treated by Muslims. There’s an idea. Ask those who were persecuted by Muslims how they felt. Consider it homework.
 
Pro, you have a very good command of the English language. Unfortunately we are not using the dialectic in this thread. Your colloquial English betrays you.

Be peaceful? How about that paraplegic who was pushed off the Achille Lauro in his wheelchair by your peaceful Islamic jihadists? I do not belief for the life of me that Holy Mother Church requires me to roll over and play dead against people who have extremely obvious intentions to do me bodily harm. Where is the outcry from Islam if these terrorists are hijacking your faith? For that matter, where was the outpouring of help from the masjids here in Louisiana after Katrina? How’s that for a concrete reference as to how much help we can expect from our Islamic brethren?
 
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cestusdei:
Well you can look up what Biffi said I suppose. You could read what Ratzinger said. Or consider the curial moves he has made. John Allen has some views on that at NCR. You can of course ask some Sudanese Christians how they felt they were treated by Muslims. There’s an idea. Ask those who were persecuted by Muslims how they felt. Consider it homework.
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Please source some documents. I’ve done my homework, and all that I see is refutation of the things you are doing here on the forum.

I do believe you’re dodging the question because you are not a Priest.
 
Ratzinger (when he was a Cardinal):

cathnews.com/news/203/19.php
Ratzinger praised Islam for upholding the values of monogamous marriage and the dignity of women, which “undoubtedly demonstrate a cultural superiority”.
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“It is true that the Muslim world is not totally mistaken when it reproaches the West of Christian tradition of moral decadence and the manipulation of human life,” he said. “This imposes on us a serious examination of conscience.”
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“The truth of the Christian faith appears to us in all its depth, but we mustn´t forget that, sadly, it has been darkened many times by the concrete behaviour of those who called themselves Christians,” he said. "Islam has also had moments of great splendor and decadence in the course of its history. "
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Cardinal Biffi as far as I can tell make the immigration argument, and not one for bashing Islam. Even then, his views are contested on immigration policy…so which is the policy of the whole Church?
 
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