), and we fast for well over half the year, maintaining an essentially vegan diet during this time. It might be interesting for you as an EO to know that this does not include the prohibition on oil. The great fast (al-soum al-kabir), as they call the Lenten Fast, is for 55 days, not the 40 that the westerners do. It includes a preparatory week, which helps account for the difference.I don’t know a lot of about the Coptic Church but I found a nice website that you may like. It’s called the Coptic Orthodox Church Network which has information on its history, theology, etc. Hope you like it.
Thank you for the info. It’s very enlighting but I have one question. Is the Coptic Church based solely in Egypt and do you know how many members it has?As a catechumen I am not the best to answer these questions, but I have noticed overall that there is more variation among the various Oriental (as compared to Eastern/Byzantine) Churches than among other communions. Reading through the sayings of the Desert Fathers, for instance, you will find not only Egyptians, but Syrians, Palestinians, Ethiopians, and, yes, Romans (St. Arsenius, anyone?). It is not only in the veneration of many different saints, but also in common usage, e.g., the close historical and contemporary relations between the Coptic Church and the Syriac Orthodox, whereby we have adopted a Fraction prayer of the Syrians (appropriately, “The Syrian Fraction”), and the Midnight praises prayed at Deir al-Suriani (the Monastery of the Syrians) in the Egyptian desert are prayed according to Coptic usage. Listen to them here. Similarly, there was once the “Al-Habashi” liturgy, which was in essence an Arabic translation of the Ethiopian liturgy. That one is no longer celebrated (HH Pope Shenouda III apparently requested that the Copts stick to their own liturgies, meaning those of St. Basil, St. Cyril, and St. Gregory as traditionally celebrated by the Coptic Orthodox Church), but you can find some videos on YouTube of it being celebrated by Fr. Estephanos Rizk, like this one. And of course, the Ethiopians are famous for their astoundingly broad Biblical canon, which does not present a problem to their sister churches in the communion which have a much narrower canon (the Copts included).
In terms of practice, it is intensely ascetic and monastically-inclined/influenced. The hours are observed to a great degree (less so by me…
There’s a lot more, but this should get the thread started.
The Coptic Church is all around the world now, thanks to the diaspora and missionary work. I am not in Egypt, for instance.
I think the first Coptic Church in the USA was founded sometime in the 1950s, though, so its presence is quite a bit newer than some of the Eastern and Oriental churches you’re probably more familiar with (Greeks, Russians, Armenians, etc). It is still growing, of course. There has been a church in Mexico for about a decade now, and the missionary work in Bolivia has grown to the point that something on the order of 400 native Bolivians attend services weekly there. The liturgies are all in Spanish these locales, as well…not bad for a bunch of Egyptians! Listen to the liturgy in Spanish courtesy of the church in Mexico here (La Iglesia de San Marcos y Santa Maria, Morelos, served by Fr. Zakaria Al Bramousy)Wow, thank you for sharing! This is amazing and I hope the Coptic Church continues to have many blessings like this. Maybe the Coptic Church wouldn’t mind going to Asia?The Coptic Church is all around the world now, thanks to the diaspora and missionary work. I am not in Egypt, for instance.
In addition to these churches and the many churches in Europe and Australia, there is also a Coptic Church in Fiji, and at the beginning of Lent I received a diocese bulletin looking for volunteers to go to Trinidad and Tobago, so I guess there’s work being done (or going to be done) there, too.
(I’m leaving out the growth of the church in Africa proper, as this has always been traditional territory of the Church of Alexandria, though there are many missionary churches in Kenya, S. Africa, Nigeria, etc. Some are several decades old by now.)
Depending on who you believe, the Coptic Orthodox Church has anywhere from 8 million to about 15 million members. Most disinterested parties put the figure at somewhere in the middle around 10-12 million.
Yes, I see what you mean although I was trying to say that most people such as in India or China have not heard of the Gospel. Or maybe they have?Well, I’m not sure what part of Asia you’re talking about (the Middle East is also technically a part of Asia, and the church is certainly there), but there are traditional churches in Eurasia (the Armenians and the Georgians) which exert influence in their respective spheres (I’m not sure the extent of their missionary activity, however), and then of course there are the Syrian Orthodox Malankarans/Malayali people in South India who are active in their sphere, as well. Christianity in Asia is not really an unknown quantity.
The earliest Christian missions in China and India were conducted by the Assyrian Church of the East. In China, a stone tablet has been found that describes Christian practices such as prayer seven times in the day and the like. Some have said the mitres of the Mahayana Buddhists were borrowed from the Assyrian bishops. In the ninth century during the T’ang dynasty, there were two Metropolitans and twenty bishops of the Assyrian Church in Tibet alone. Then there was the visit, in the time of King Edward I, of an Assyrian priest to London . . .Yes, I see what you mean although I was trying to say that most people such as in India or China have not heard of the Gospel. Or maybe they have?
Still asia is where a lot of work remains. I hope there will be a day in which China and India will be Christian nations.
There are also good resources for what the Coptic Orthodox Church believes in the Southern US Diocese Website:
I’d say, this is one of our prouder moments, considering all the evils laid down on them by the Turks. 
EDIT by me: relaxed as in willing to just sit and chat over coffee with people, not relaxed theologically
I don’t know any that don’t like Catholics, in fact, I know a few that were educated in Roman Catholic schools in Egypt. I have not personally heard anyone–including a couple of Bishops I have met–expressing any dislike of the Roman Catholic Church.I heard from someone that Coptics don’t like Roman Catholics.
Is that true? Ever since I heard about them years ago, I wanted to learn about them and I would always stand by them whenever the Muslims behaved impertinently in Egypt, yet, I would be received with suspicion and ill.
I’ve never quite understood why. Was it perhaps due to our doctrinal differences? Or did it have something to do politically? Whatever the case, perhaps a Coptic on here might shed some light. It would help me.
I know that we Catholics get along with the Armenians quite well; especially considering that we’ve had an alliance with them a thousand years ago, and even granted them their own Kingdom, based under the Armenian way and no other, in Cilicia.
But the topic is still on the Coptics:
Do they hate us? If so, why?
-Karl
No. Who told you that idea? Of course everyone is an individual, so it is possible that someone you ran into who is Coptic might be a jerk, but that’s not the “Coptic way” or whatever.I heard from someone that Coptics don’t like Roman Catholics.
Is that true? Ever since I heard about them years ago, I wanted to learn about them and I would always stand by them whenever the Muslims behaved impertinently in Egypt, yet, I would be received with suspicion and ill.
I’ve never quite understood why. Was it perhaps due to our doctrinal differences? Or did it have something to do politically? Whatever the case, perhaps a Coptic on here might shed some light. It would help me.
I know that we Catholics get along with the Armenians quite well; especially considering that we’ve had an alliance with them a thousand years ago, and even granted them their own Kingdom, based under the Armenian way and no other, in Cilicia.
But the topic is still on the Coptics:
Do they hate us? If so, why?
-Karl
It was a guy I met on Youtube. Not exactly the most trustworthy, but it left me shocked and disappointed; wondering at every moment, WHY? We have more in common than uncommon. And we can help each other. Surely the Muslims can’t be that great of friends to give the finger to Catholicism.No. Who told you that idea? Of course everyone is an individual, so it is possible that someone you ran into who is Coptic might be a jerk, but that’s not the “Coptic way” or whatever.
In fact, coming from a Roman Catholic background, my experience has been that the Copts in my church (which is everybody there, except for me, two Ethiopians, and two Jordanians who sometimes come to liturgy) are happy that I was Roman Catholic before finding them. It’s like I have less far to go in order to learn about the faith than someone who was Protestant (they didn’t say this explicitly, but one of the Ethiopians did). We had a Lutheran family visit us once, and I felt so bad because it seemed like they received a bit of a colder welcome compared to other visitors who are Catholic (like the two Jordanians; they’re actually Greek Catholic, but come to our liturgy since Arabic liturgy isn’t offered very often in the Catholic Church here; it’s funny since our liturgy is only about 25% non-English). Not rude, just a lot of pointed questioning. One thing I will say in all honesty is that the Copts are very zealous in their faith, so what doctrinal differences there are really aren’t met with “oh well, to each their own”. Usually they are a bit nicer than they were to the Lutheran family that day, but I could see how it could be perceived as mean by someone who is more used to the RCC doctrine that other religions or sects share some truth. Copts believe that in some sense too, but it’s not expressed the same way, probably because historically they’ve had to fight for their (miaphysite) beliefs, so they’re really sure that they’re right, and dedicated to their doctrines.
Anyway, I’m sorry that you’ve had a bad experience. I can guarantee that Copts do not hate you if you’re RC. If you came to one of our Agape meals you might think they’re hateful because there’s so much yelling, but that’s just their way. A cultural thing, I guess. Maybe this is how they make sure they can get their point across. Thanksgiving last year was my first thanksgiving with them and I was kind of shocked at how they could all be very happy, and yet always yelling something or other at each other (in Arabic, usually). Hahaha. You get used to it after a while…people at church always think I’m sad or not feeling well because I don’t do it.
My sorrow is that I have never been to a Coptic liturgy and I would love to visit one. I would love to go to Egypt, if Egypt wasn’t such a terrible place right now.
Anyway, I’m sorry that you’ve had a bad experience. I can guarantee that Copts do not hate you if you’re RC. If you came to one of our Agape meals you might think they’re hateful because there’s so much yelling, but that’s just their way. A cultural thing, I guess. Maybe this is how they make sure they can get their point across. Thanksgiving last year was my first thanksgiving with them and I was kind of shocked at how they could all be very happy, and yet always yelling something or other at each other (in Arabic, usually). Hahaha. You get used to it after a while…people at church always think I’m sad or not feeling well because I don’t do it.
This reminds me of the first time I went to a dinner at the Coptic church with my friends, I had not yet learned Arabic and one of the men came in and another man stood up and they started yelling–I looked at my friends and said “what’s the matter? what’s wrong?” They smiled at me and said “Nothing, they have not seen each other in a long time, they’re happy!”Visit a Coptic liturgy, if one is close enough to you. Here in the US there are some that are in English, personally I prefer Arabic/Coptic to the use of English. Assuming they use the same book to follow Liturgy, it’s in English/Arabic/Coptic so it’s easy to follow and I have always found everyone very helpful in figuring things out and translating for me.It was a guy I met on Youtube. Not exactly the most trustworthy, but it left me shocked and disappointed; wondering at every moment, WHY? We have more in common than uncommon. And we can help each other. Surely the Muslims can’t be that great of friends to give the finger to Catholicism.
I do know that every religion has its jerk; without a doubt, but, even with that thought in mind, I still had good thoughts and feelings for the Coptics, with whom, even if they hate me, I’ll still have respect for. Anyone who lives in a country like Egypt and survive for thousands of years under Byzantine and Islamic rule has my respect.
I assure you, I did not have any bad experiences with the Coptics. As a matter a fact, I’ve never even met one. I wish I did. It would be a wonderful experience, even if it was a bad one. I always appreciate things I’ve never seen or have only read about. I suppose you could say it’s like reading about Middle-Earth. You read about it, and you wish you could see it. Then when you do, the experience is that much more enjoyable; even if you’re being hunted by Orcs or Trolls. Which is still frightening, but exciting.
I hope this is all cleared out.
-Karl
Ah, I see. Well, that might be part of it: If it were presented as “we’re more similar than dissimilar”, then I could see why the person might have reacted negatively. That’s not really the picture I’m getting from my time so far in the Coptic Orthodox Church. It’s not that they don’t recognize similarities, but the Copts I know don’t usually think of things in terms of “more similar” and “less similar”. I bet if I asked everyone at my church, they could tell me some similarities and some differences, but even when I went back home to California (my home area doesn’t have any non-Chalcedonian Orthodox churches), I brought up the idea of going to the local OCA or Bulgarian church for their Nativity liturgy and celebrations (not to commune there, of course, but just to go there and be around other Christians) and one of the ladies in the congregation made sure to pull me aside and tell me very sternly: “Do not receive communion there. You know you can’t receive communion there, right? We do not commune with the Chalcedonians.” And this was referring to the EO, not RCs (though I have no doubt she’d say the same thing there, too). And after my first liturgy here about 7 months ago, Fr. Marcus made a point of expounding upon the errors of the Tome of Leo and why Dioscoros is Orthodox and similar things, in a quick 30-minute rundown he gave me of 2000 years of Coptic history.It was a guy I met on Youtube. Not exactly the most trustworthy, but it left me shocked and disappointed; wondering at every moment, WHY? We have more in common than uncommon. And we can help each other. Surely the Muslims can’t be that great of friends to give the finger to Catholicism.
Find one and go to it. You won’t regret it. I moved 1200 miles to go to one and I don’t regret it.
What is your background, and why did you choose to join the Coptic Orthodox church?Ah, I see. Well, that might be part of it: If it were presented as “we’re more similar than dissimilar”, then I could see why the person might have reacted negatively. That’s not really the picture I’m getting from my time so far in the Coptic Orthodox Church. It’s not that they don’t recognize similarities, but the Copts I know don’t usually think of things in terms of “more similar” and “less similar”. I bet if I asked everyone at my church, they could tell me some similarities and some differences, but even when I went back home to California (my home area doesn’t have any non-Chalcedonian Orthodox churches), I brought up the idea of going to the local OCA or Bulgarian church for their Nativity liturgy and celebrations (not to commune there, of course, but just to go there and be around other Christians) and one of the ladies in the congregation made sure to pull me aside and tell me very sternly: “Do not receive communion there. You know you can’t receive communion there, right? We do not commune with the Chalcedonians.” And this was referring to the EO, not RCs (though I have no doubt she’d say the same thing there, too). And after my first liturgy here about 7 months ago, Fr. Marcus made a point of expounding upon the errors of the Tome of Leo and why Dioscoros is Orthodox and similar things, in a quick 30-minute rundown he gave me of 2000 years of Coptic history.
So no matter what similarities there are (and I think that any random OO you might meet would still admit that we are closest to the EO than to anyone else, regardless of whether or not they think the EO are Orthodox or not), the line between who is Orthodox and who is not is pretty strictly maintained, at least in the abstract. (I have to write “in the abstract” beceause EO-OO intercommunion is definitely not unheard of, but is a response to local, pastoral situations, not a matter of official policy or what have you in either church.)
Find one and go to it. You won’t regret it. I moved 1200 miles to go to one and I don’t regret it.