Copts

[dzheremi]

Ohhhh…this is so depressing. I’m sorry, I’m out of words to express how wrong this all is, according to how you’ve recounted it. I mean, you could’ve taken the orban (I don’t think I’ve ever seen it refused, so I don’t know what would happen then), but after a “liturgy” like that, I’m not sure I’d take it either. Don’t get me wrong, I’m no Donatist, but one of the principles for taking communion in the Church (together with keeping the necessary fasts, going to confession regularly, etc.) is that if you are harboring some anger or other negative emotion toward your brother, you should reconcile with him before approaching the chalice. So I’m not sure if I could take communion while upset at the actions of the priest who was to give it to me.

 

[jimkhong]

Its OK, I didn’t take the orban because I wasn’t Coptic, same reason why I didn’t take communion - it was consecrated the same way after all. For some reason, being in communion is still a big deal to me, particularly when being in communion is taken very lightly by the other party - meaning we have different understanding of being in communion.

The priest is actually a nice guy, as is the deacon I had a chat with. Despite the truncation, it was still a valuable experience and I look forward to more opporunities like that.

 

[dzheremi]

Its OK, I didn’t take the orban because I wasn’t Coptic, same reason why I didn’t take communion - it was consecrated the same way after all. For some reason, being in communion is still a big deal to me, particularly when being in communion is taken very lightly by the other party - meaning we have different understanding of being in communion.

Fair enough, but just to reiterate what it is normative (because what you experienced seems to be far from it), the vast majority of Coptic Orthodox people do not take communion lightly at all. We once had a woman who used to worship with us here who would attend every liturgy and fully participate in everything. She was a baptized OO Christian, born into the faith and very much practicing and zealous for it, yet for the full year that we worshiped together, she never approached for communion. At one point, some curious parishioners asked abouna what the reason was (because in the COC, unlike some other churches, infrequent communion is very unusual) and he very sternly told them that there were reasons known to him and to God but it was nobody else’s business, and to never ask again. Similarly, the Catholic Jordanians who used to worship with us were never offered communion, and apparently knew better to ask. The proper guarding of the chalice is probably the most serious responsibility that a priest exercises as a servant of the sacraments. Closed communion is absolutely right for doctrinal reasons, as I know your own church also affirms (not so much with the Orthodox for whatever reason, but with Protestants and others for solid doctrinal reasons). Whoever does anything different against the norms of the Church (as the priest you visited with did on several levels) is certainly committing an abuse, to use the Latin terminology. I would refrain from RCC communion (in any particular church) for much the same reason as you did, so I’m happy to see that you did that. Thank you. That relieves the pain slightly, but most importantly it is respectful toward the traditional stance of all apostolic churches.

 

[jimkhong]

Fair enough, but just to reiterate what it is normative (because what you experienced seems to be far from it), the vast majority of Coptic Orthodox people do not take communion lightly at all. We once had a woman who used to worship with us here who would attend every liturgy and fully participate in everything. She was a baptized OO Christian, born into the faith and very much practicing and zealous for it, yet for the full year that we worshiped together, she never approached for communion. At one point, some curious parishioners asked abouna what the reason was (because in the COC, unlike some other churches, infrequent communion is very unusual) and he very sternly told them that there were reasons known to him and to God but it was nobody else’s business, and to never ask again. Similarly, the Catholic Jordanians who used to worship with us were never offered communion, and apparently knew better to ask. The proper guarding of the chalice is probably the most serious responsibility that a priest exercises as a servant of the sacraments. Closed communion is absolutely right for doctrinal reasons, as I know your own church also affirms (not so much with the Orthodox for whatever reason, but with Protestants and others for solid doctrinal reasons). Whoever does anything different against the norms of the Church (as the priest you visited with did on several levels) is certainly committing an abuse, to use the Latin terminology. I would refrain from RCC communion (in any particular church) for much the same reason as you did, so I’m happy to see that you did that. Thank you. That relieves the pain slightly, but most importantly it is respectful toward the traditional stance of all apostolic churches.

I think we are one on this point, my Coptic friend. One day, I am sure God will welcome us both to each other’s table but not yet.

Thanks once again for illuminating so much.