Copying Music: Which Commandment does it violate?

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People may gain some insight by reading this proposed “Bill of Rights” that is being distributed for signature to the members of ASCAP - American Society of Composers, Authors, and Publishers."

ascap.com/rights/billText.aspx

You will also find a 32 page “position paper” on the rights of creators and the changes coming about by technology. Here’s a quote:
Illegal downloading is at the center of the maelstrom. It is the most contentious issue affecting those who create and make music, as well as those who love music. It is also at the heart of the paradox: if music is so loved, so cherished and so central to our current cultural moment, why is it being devalued by so
many of its “consumers”?
 
I asked a similar question.

I now think that if I was a musician and my songs were being downloaded free of charge by thousands of people, I’d be upset.
 
Downloading music is a violation of the Copyright laws. Some time ago people got caught and were prosecuted to the full extent of the law and to the point to where I think they lost their houses or went to Jail.

The Music Industery takes this very seriously. and do dot mess around. By downloading you are cheating both the Publisher and the Artist out of money as the Artist has to pay the Publisher a percentage for each song he sells.

You are also breaking the Seventh Commandment.

Antrim
 
Does it matter? Can’t it be both?

If you steal 5$ from your father you’re breaking two commandments, and I think it’s the same with illegally copying music.
 
Does it matter? Can’t it be both?

If you steal 5$ from your father you’re breaking two commandments, and I think it’s the same with illegally copying music.
I started this poll 5 months ago and it took that long for someone to state the obvious. 😊 Thanks, Jack. 😉
 
I realize the issue comes up a lot, but I was hoping this thread could have a slightly different focus. I would like to discuss why it’s wrong, not whether it’s wrong. The presupposition is that it is wrong.

To further clarify, I guess I’m really asking about illegal copies, not legal backup copies (which would be perfectly moral).
As a songwriter I can easily address why it’s wrong. I go to several audio engineering forums where this topic is discussed quite frequently. It’s wrong because it does grave damage to the ability of the people who create and record music to earn a living. Studios are going out of business at a record rate.

I no longer view a career in music as a viable option. For me and increasingly for others it can be nothing more than a very expensive hobby.

Here’s a brief quote from the New Advent website about theft.
When several persons join forces to steal from another and the loss incurred is notable, then each one contracts the guilt of grievous sin, even though his own contribution to the wrong-doing has been but small. One who hoards the proceeds of his petty thefts is chargeable with mortal sin when the sum accumulated is grave.
I’ve read statistics that as much as 80% of music is pirated today.

I don’t know if anyone is aware of the actual cost of producing music professionally, But it ain’t cheap. You have the cost of instruments, recording media, and software, dynamics, effects, microphones, monitoring, mixing console, acoustic treatment in both the live room and the tracking room. Then there is mixing and mastering plus the cost of copyrights and distribution plus very high electricity costs. Then you have to keep the room cool because of the heat all this analogue equipment produces so you have the cost of h-vac, and the considerable cost of cabling all this equipment together. You have the cost of artwork, and jewel cases plus duplicating. Just to name a few of the costs associated with recording let alone the copious amount of time it takes to compose and arrange the music.

There are increasingly more and more musicians that are trying to pay for and do all of this themselves without recording contracts.

More and more studios are looking to commercials, and scoring film and tv to earn a living because they know they can’t make it strictly recording music because of piracy.

So in short the cumulative effect of your 1 dollar theft of one song is devastating to the person who makes the music you listen to.

Now as a hopeful citizen of Heaven the thought of stealing anything no matter how small should we be fortunate enough to even make it to purgatory will have to be burned away, because nothing unpure can be in the presence of God.
 
As a songwriter I can easily address why it’s wrong. I go to several audio engineering forums where this topic is discussed quite frequently. It’s wrong because it does grave damage to the ability of the people who create and record music to earn a living. Studios are going out of business at a record rate.

I no longer view a career in music as a viable option. For me and increasingly for others it can be nothing more than a very expensive hobby.

Here’s a brief quote from the New Advent website about theft.

I’ve read statistics that as much as 80% of music is pirated today.

I don’t know if anyone is aware of the actual cost of producing music professionally, But it ain’t cheap. You have the cost of instruments, recording media, and software, dynamics, effects, microphones, monitoring, mixing console, acoustic treatment in both the live room and the tracking room. Then there is mixing and mastering plus the cost of copyrights and distribution plus very high electricity costs. Then you have to keep the room cool because of the heat all this analogue equipment produces so you have the cost of h-vac, and the considerable cost of cabling all this equipment together. You have the cost of artwork, and jewel cases plus duplicating. Just to name a few of the costs associated with recording let alone the copious amount of time it takes to compose and arrange the music.

There are increasingly more and more musicians that are trying to pay for and do all of this themselves without recording contracts.

More and more studios are looking to commercials, and scoring film and tv to earn a living because they know they can’t make it strictly recording music because of piracy.

So in short the cumulative effect of your 1 dollar theft of one song is devastating to the person who makes the music you listen to.

Now as a hopeful citizen of Heaven the thought of stealing anything no matter how small should we be fortunate enough to even make it to purgatory will have to be burned away, because nothing unpure can be in the presence of God.
Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut. I think many people do not think through all the costs involved in making music. Music piracy may or may not put a dent in some of the bigger artists, but it’s devastating for those who are trying to get off the ground.
 
Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut. I think many people do not think through all the costs involved in making music. Music piracy may or may not put a dent in some of the bigger artists, but it’s devastating for those who are trying to get off the ground.
Steve Albini is a long time respected producer and recording engineer who wrote a paper about what exactly happens to most artists who sign big label contracts. The truth is that after labels recoup their investment, and trust me the artist has to pay back every penny of the incurred recording and distribution costs before they can then begin to see a profit. There are many a big name artist that are lucky to break even in todays world. Where they do make their money is in touring and merchandicing, ie… sales of cd’s and t shirts when they perform live. Most acts today consider the music they record as a commercial to draw people to their live shows so they can make enough money to survive.

The super acts still make a alot of money, but not as much as they used to, and there are in reality very few that have the savvy to be profitable. Successful artists are continually experimenting with new business models hoping to find one that will be profitable, it’s extremely difficult for everyone today because of this phenomena.

The ones that are really up a creek in todays market are the songwriters such as myself. We don’t perform or tour, so we are solely reliant on the increasingly diminishing honesty of the buying public.

Now I have a body of work that I’ve written over the last 5 years that I’ve refused to record and get published waiting for someone to find a way to stem the piracy hemmorhage. That doesn’t seem to be happening so I’ve come to the conclusion in my own life that God is calling me to use this talent for Him. It is a talent that was freely given my by God and I’m going to freely give it back to Him without a reasonable expectation of being compensated. Although I think I’ve finally come to peace with this decision it will be a part time ministry because I will still have to support myself.

It seems the prevailing attitude today is that music is free. The problem with that is when a person has that attitude they are telling the artist/recording engineer/songwriter that their time, effort. and talent has no value. That increasingly forces talented people into other fields of work, cause ya gotsta eat and pay the electric man. What the public is asking for by this attitude is that they want sub par talent recording on pro-sumer to amateur equipment. I just laugh when I hear people complain about the quality of music today because they don’t see the connect between piracy and forcing many a talented people out of the music business.

I’ve talked to alot of young people about this and the prevailing attitude is they just don’t care. If it doesn’t affect them then they are ok with stealing other peoples hard work, “after all music is free”. They usually respond with arrogant mocking defiance when told how they really affect musicians. I guarantee if their wages were affected the same way as they affect musicians and recording engineers they would be screaming the loudest.

I have not been an angel myself because I used to be as bad as most people about this issue, and God dealt with me on it, and I’ve deleted all pirated works from my computer.

It’s not just musicians that are affected, It’s also the people who make movies, and write software. Any one who makes their living producing anything that can be digitized is affected by this.

So, no… It doesn’t happen in a vacuum when music is pirated in the privacy of ones own home. People are greatly affected by this sin.

Sin is sin no matter how small and it must be confessed and repented from!
 
Cranster,

Wow, another great post. Thanks for sharing your insider perspective.

I think, in many ways, our sense of entitlement is growing. We can turn on the radio or MTV and see and hear music for free (well, we’d be paying for MTV through the cable bill, but if your young and living at home, it’s easy to think of it as “free”). In many cases, you can even go to myspace or a band’s official website and hear samples of their music for free. I think this makes it much easier for people to rationalize that what they’re doing is just taking what they could get in any number of other ways for free and putting it in a format that’s easier for them.

Even with other media, the same thing happens. If you can go to NBC’s website and watch an episode of this or that show for free, then it’s easy to rationalize illegally downloading it so you can burn it to a DVD. Or with so many different books and articles available online for free, it’s easy to get into the mindset that all books should be free.

Of course, this is all just rationalization. And when this fails, then one can just fall back on the old “the artist has plenty of money” line (which is similar to the rationalization for not giving money to the Church because the Church “has too much money”). Even if that were true, you bring to light a very good point that the artist isn’t necessarily the only one being hurt. There are song writers and probably many other people in the music industry that are being hurt by this.
 
Cranster,

Of course, this is all just rationalization. And when this fails, then one can just fall back on the old “the artist has plenty of money” line (which is similar to the rationalization for not giving money to the Church because the Church “has too much money”). Even if that were true, you bring to light a very good point that the artist isn’t necessarily the only one being hurt. There are song writers and probably many other people in the music industry that are being hurt by this.
I find the prevailing attitude is “stick it to the man!” The man is increasingly the small time musician recording out of their home.

The actual “man” ie… the labels spend alot of money on failed acts that aren’t profitable hoping to recoup on the one that is.

The large studios with the million dollar ssl console and hundreds of thousands of dollars in analogue outboard gear, let alone that they have mic lockers that can easily run in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. They have support staff to pay, engineers, 2nd engineers, book keeping, secretaries etc.

Those large consoles have to be commissioned meaning they have several very large power supply units that have to be set up. The power requirements in a large studio are astronomical. You have to draw your power straight from the power line. If you are a large act you will most likely track in a smaller facility then hire a very expensive mix engineer to mix in a large facility. Then repeat the process for mastering. Mastering facilities have very expensive specialized equipment to properly equalize and compress the final mix. Those rooms have to be acoustically treated and mastering monitors can be very expensive.

The main monitors in a large studio can run upwards of 50 thousand dollars apiece. Those facilities are becoming dinosaurs. How can they not.

The catch 22 is people still expect the same quality and quantity as they always have it’s just now they EXPECT it for free. That’s ok because there are a lot of companies that can set you up with a “recording studio” for a couple hundred bucks, and the sound quality definitely sounds like it’s worth next to nothing. As people continue to cannibalize this music thing they can’t live without, it will eventually be worth exactly what they pay for it… NOTHING!

My generation raised the current generation that sees absolutely nothing wrong with sin, and we made sure with our anything goes attitude that we stomped on and smashed the moral compass before we handed it on to our children.
 
Something came to mind when I was reading the Replys and it is this.

Help me out with this as I might be wrong.

I thought it was a venial sin to steal something small from a large company but a mortal sin to steal something large from a small company.

People with this mind set may look at the situation and think they are downloading from a major company and only commiting a venial sin not knowing the full scope of the situation.

What do you think?

Antrim
 
Something came to mind when I was reading the Replys and it is this.

Help me out with this as I might be wrong.

I thought it was a venial sin to steal something small from a large company but a mortal sin to steal something large from a small company.

People with this mind set may look at the situation and think they are downloading from a major company and only commiting a venial sin not knowing the full scope of the situation.

What do you think?

Antrim
Again this is a quote from the new advent website about theft.
When several persons join forces to steal from another and the loss incurred is notable, then each one contracts the guilt of grievous sin, even though his own contribution to the wrong-doing has been but small. One who hoards the proceeds of his petty thefts is chargeable with mortal sin when the sum accumulated is grave.
Do you think it’s ever ok to justify venial sin?
I think that’s the quickest route to mortal sin.

At some point we are going to have to stop trying to rationalize our way in to sin.
 
essentially it’s actually both A, B and C.

But primarily it’s a breaking of the commandment not to steal.
 
Of course it is not O K to justify any sin.

I was not justifying anything. I was asking a question and you posted a reply that I knew nothing about.

Antrim
 
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