Copying Music

[PeteZaHut]

From what I have read online, any copy of copyrighted material is illegal unless you are copying for your own personal use.

My brother, who is in college, usually buys CD’s there. When he comes home from Christmas, Easter, etc., I upload his music onto my iPod. I think this is technically illegal, but is it morally wrong?

 

[mschrank]

Unfortunately, YES.

This has been the absolute hardest of all the commandments for me to keep since my conversion.

You’d think fornication would be the hardest. Nope.

I used to be such a music buff, pirated records from all over the world, everything from 60s hippie tunes, 70s metal, reggae, 80s music, goths, new romantics, alternative, country, you name it.

I love music and ugh, I tell you, this is surely the hardest thing for me to keep.

But yes, it’s stealing, don’t do it. I’ve had different priests tell me this. I wish it were’nt but it is.

 

[Tietjen]

Unfortunately, YES.

This has been the absolute hardest of all the commandments for me to keep since my conversion.

You’d think fornication would be the hardest. Nope.

I used to be such a music buff, pirated records from all over the world, everything from 60s hippie tunes, 70s metal, reggae, 80s music, goths, new romantics, alternative, country, you name it.

I love music and ugh, I tell you, this is surely the hardest thing for me to keep.

But yes, it’s stealing, don’t do it. I’ve had different priests tell me this. I wish it were’nt but it is.

Okay, here’s a twist to this topic… what about taping a football game because you won’t be home to watch it? Is using your VCR or DVD recorder to copy a game immoral even if your only intention is to watch it later (not sell it or profit from it in any way)? Keep in mind the warning given before a game airs concerning copying the game “…without the expressed written permission of the NFL is prohibited.” And if it is, what about people who tape TV shows because the shows come on too late and they have to work the next morning? Is that also wrong?

As you can probably tell, I have been struggling with this type of thing as well. In Confession, I confessed this and was told by my priest that the football game example was not a sin, but if I copied a rented movie that it might well be a sin though possibly not a mortal one. My thing is this… if someone steals something, then the owner of that something no longer has it. If I copy it for later viewing without the intention of making a profit on it (and thus taking away possible profits by the artist) then I am not depriving the artist(s) of either the “art” nor the profits others may pay to view/hear it. Especially in the case of the football game since I would not be at the game, sharing the game with those who may have bought tickets to the game and the game itself is being broadcast to the entire country for their viewing (except for me who just happens to being working at the time of the airing).

 

[mchale]

Okay, here’s a twist to this topic… what about taping a football game because you won’t be home to watch it? Is using your VCR or DVD recorder to copy a game immoral even if your only intention is to watch it later (not sell it or profit from it in any way)? Keep in mind the warning given before a game airs concerning copying the game “…without the expressed written permission of the NFL is prohibited.” And if it is, what about people who tape TV shows because the shows come on too late and they have to work the next morning? Is that also wrong?

The NFL can prohibit it all it wants, it is neither illegal nor immoral to copy the transmission of any Television or Radio program for later, purely personal use (and that can include allowing friends and family to view/listen with you). The legal aspects of it were hashed out in the 70s and 80s when VCRs became popular. Copying a broadcast for personal use falls under the concept of fair use under copyright law. By accepting the protections of copyright law, a broadcaster implicitly accepts the limitations of copyright law. As long as you make no profit, and as long as you limit sharing the material with close friends and family, it is perfectly legal.

As you can probably tell, I have been struggling with this type of thing as well. In Confession, I confessed this and was told by my priest that the football game example was not a sin, but if I copied a rented movie that it might well be a sin though possibly not a mortal one. My thing is this… if someone steals something, then the owner of that something no longer has it. If I copy it for later viewing without the intention of making a profit on it (and thus taking away possible profits by the artist) then I am not depriving the artist(s) of either the “art” nor the profits others may pay to view/hear it. Especially in the case of the football game since I would not be at the game, sharing the game with those who may have bought tickets to the game and the game itself is being broadcast to the entire country for their viewing (except for me who just happens to being working at the time of the airing).

Don’t worry about it and enjoy the football game. As long as you aren’t planning on posting the content online or otherwise sharing with those you don’t personally know, you are will within the generally accepted standard of fair use and therefore are neither breaking the law nor sinning.

Oh, one last thought, it is also against the law to accept copies from people you are not related to or are close friends with.

–
Bill

 

[mschrank]

Making a temporary copy isn’t bad, because you’re just going to watch it once and get rid of it. I sometimes copy netflix DVDs so my brother can watch it later. Then I delete it.

That’s different than copying a DVD then letting it sit on my computer to watch at a later time. The reason why netflix costs $17.99 a month is because you don’t get to keep the movies. If you did, you’d be getting something for nothing, which is what the piracy thing comes down to.

 

[PeteZaHut]

Oh, one last thought, it is also against the law to accept copies from people you are not related to or are close friends with.

So are you saying that it is legal to make copies and give them to people you are related to or are close friends with?

 

[mchale]

So are you saying that it is legal to make copies and give them to people you are related to or are close friends with?

With in reason. The concept of fair use is pretty nebulous, but in general as long as you are not doing it systematically you are probably ok. This is certainly true if you only use parts of works. (for example, making a CD compilation would be more clearly ok than making a straight copy of a single CD).

–
Bill

 

[pablo_rafael]

All composers and musicians deserve the revenue that comes from their work. Also the music publisher deserves their fair share.

I know that I have illegally copied many times; sometimes it is easy just to make a copy, but unless it is a temporary copy that will be replaced with a legally purchased one, it is against the law.

As stingy as I am, I have to tell myself to just buy what it is I want and do the right thing.

Some of the worst offenders are churches with copies of choir music. If the copyright police came to many of our churches, they would find pickup loads of illegally copied music.

Tu Amigo, Pablo

 

[mcs7474]

I just deleted all by stolen music, im in the long long process of buying the right way. It was hard, but it felt good. Over 800 or so songs.

 

[Aleii]

unless it is a temporary copy that will be replaced with a legally purchased one, it is against the law.

One thing that I never fully understood is this: How is it different/why is it ok to pop in a tape recorder and record your favorite song off the radio for permanent use, but its not OK to do it through your computer? How is recording music that I hear through, say, an online radio station so much different?

 

[PeteZaHut]

One thing that I never fully understood is this: How is it different/why is it ok to pop in a tape recorder and record your favorite song off the radio for permanent use, but its not OK to do it through your computer? How is recording music that I hear through, say, an online radio station so much different?

I didn’t know you were allowed to record stuff off the radio.

 

[didymus]

One thing that I never fully understood is this: How is it different/why is it ok to pop in a tape recorder and record your favorite song off the radio for permanent use, but its not OK to do it through your computer? How is recording music that I hear through, say, an online radio station so much different?

The artist/media conglomerate has already been paid by the radio staion for playing the song. Also, copies made from your tape would not be a threat to sales of the real CD/tape so I don’t think record companies ever put much effort into stopping this practice.

When you copy a CD with your computer or download it, say from a P2P site you are getting basically the same quality as the original and that is a threat to sales of the real CD.

 

[dorothy_smith]

Okay, here’s a twist to this topic… what about taping a football game because you won’t be home to watch it? Is using your VCR or DVD recorder to copy a game immoral…?(

Morally, perhaps its best not to watch or record a football game.

And, I think that it might be a sin to watch or record ball games that are played on the Sabbath (most televised games are played on Sundays).

Pope John Paul II implored more praying than playing and more enlightenment than entertainment on the Sabbath. Remember?

 

[Gertabelle]

So are you saying that it is legal to make copies and give them to people you are related to or are close friends with?

With in reason. The concept of fair use is pretty nebulous, but in general as long as you are not doing it systematically you are probably ok. This is certainly true if you only use parts of works. (for example, making a CD compilation would be more clearly ok than making a straight copy of a single CD).

–
Bill

I must respectfully disagree with your opinion, Bill. While the concept of fair use has its nebulosity (not a real word) there is very little that is nebulous about the phrase “all rights reserved.” As a music educator I have to be pretty knowledgeable and careful about copyright law. In general, it is NEVER ok to copy any portion of copyrighted material to give to another. In a music classroom, I do have the right to copy up to 10% (no more than that) of a piece of music to share with my students as part of a lesson.

There is absolutely no provision in the law that says copying music for a friend or family member is acceptable. I am speaking here of audio or visual material taken from an original source (including the internet), not of material copied from a public broadcast such as television or radio. Although, if one tapes a movie, for example, it would be illegal to make a copy of that movie to give to someone else. This is part of what is meant by “all rights reserved.” The copyright owner alone has the right to copy and distribute what they own.

Are the copyright police going to come into your home and arrest you? Hardly likely, unless you are publicly distributing material (either for free or for profit).

Back to the original question posted by the OP: Copying music is illegal. If you think breaking the law is immoral or sinful, then copying music is also immoral or sinful.

Just my two cent’s.

Gertie

 

[adrift]

Although, if one tapes a movie, for example, it would be illegal to make a copy of that movie to give to someone else. This is part of what is meant by “all rights reserved.” The copyright owner alone has the right to copy and distribute what they own.

I contacted the U.S. Copyright Office about this issue and they said it is a gray area which has not been decided. The legality,they said, has not been determined.

 

[hfwarner3]

Copyright law is its own legal specialty with very large grey legal areas. The morality of things can be a different issue.

The new phrases when it comes to copyright law are “time-shifting” and “location-shifting”.

TiVo records my tv shows for me so that I can watch them later at a time best for me. This is an example of “time shifting”. So is recording the football game on video tape. So far copyright law has been very favorable to time-shifting and sees it as fair use. Personally, I have no moral problem with TiVo at all. Having me watch the show after the children are in bed instead of when the show is on does not cost anyone revenue, so it is not stealing. Even better, TiVo has a feature called KidZone that allows me to password protect the TiVo with a PIN and tell it specifically what shows my children are or are not allowed to see. I, as a parent, now have total control of all video coming into the house.

TiVo now has software you can download to your PC called TiVo desktop. This software can, among other things, get the video off of your TiVo and put it onto your cellphone, iPod, etc. I can record shows from EWTN, PBS, and Discovery Channel, have the software put them on my Treo cellphone, and watch the shows on the bus to and from work. This falls within the grey area of the law because there are now two copies of the show. Morally, I have no problem with it because I am not hurting anyone by doing it, no one is lossing revenue from what I am doing. If anything, they are gaining money because I am watching the ads in the Discovery shows when I would not even have time to watch these shows if it weren’t for TiVo Desktop, my cellphone, and my commute to work on the bus.

Making a copy of digital media instead of purchasing it (copying a CD or a DVD) is both illegal and immoral.

 

[andy120]

Copyright law is a very confusing and “gray” area of the law. And morally such an act (in this situation) would have to be illegal to be immoral, in my opinion. Therefore, one should look at the legality of the act. Downloading shared/free music (without permissions) is illegal and thus immoral (because violating just law knowingly is immoral).

However, some things can be played or broadcast in a classroom setting or in a noncommercial setting for which a particular license has not been purchased (playing a CD in a classroom for example). This is dependent on Fair Use, and the four elements of this doctrine in US Law (Purpose, nature, amount, and effect). Unfortunately, the exact legal boundaries for these four elements have not been defined in US Law. My experience in television production has shown me that many things you’d assume would be legal are not, and vice versa. Thus, this changes the morality of the act.

And in the spirit of copyright, I also would like to cite Wikipedia’s article on Fair use for help in this post

 

[HopeFull_Mom]

I’m not sure what I think on this issue.
I have been told that the downloading of music does not actually deprive the artist/company of any revenue, but rather that downloading can potentially act as “advertising”.

An example would be, I had never heard the music of Norah Jones so I downloaded some to see what I thought. My Mom heard me playing it and since then has bought several of her CD’s for herself and as gifts for others. My mother-in-law also heard the music and really liked it. She may go out and purchase a CD as well.

So have CD/music sales really decreased since the availabilty of downloads ext…?

Also, what about older music that isn’t available or easily found for sale?

Someone I know once brought up the fact that the music/movie industries don’t allow you to give consumer feedback by returning their product if unsatisfied. If you buy a CD and every song besides the one you heard on the radio stinks, you can not return it. Same thing with buying a movie or going to see one in the theatre. They won’t give you your money back if it is terrible.

I am not saying for sure it is ok to download music/movies and make copies, but I do wonder about these points.

If the music industry really isn’t loosing any money and are in fact making money, is it stealing?

 

[jc-servant]

I’m not sure what I think on this issue.
I have been told that the downloading of music does not actually deprive the artist/company of any revenue, but rather that downloading can potentially act as “advertising”.

If you did not pay the 99 cent or whatever the going rate is for a downloaded single, then yes you have deprived the artist of some money. If they wanted to give free downloads of a particular song as “advertising” for whatever reason, then they would do it through an official website.

I have friends who are musical artists who have to pay their bills just like everyone else. What a lot of people looking to get the music for free forget is that the artist or their label must pay for studio time, engineers and a lot of other people and hope that they sell enough copies to cover the expenses and make some profit. Many popular new artists have crummy contracts so that other people are getting the vast majority of the money on their first or second albums. Many more musicians just don’t sell enough to cover the expenses, so the individual eats the cost or the record company does.

I hope I’m wrong, but your post seemed like you were looking for excuses to not pay people for their music.

Also, what about older music that isn’t available or easily found for sale?

There are websites with addresses and instructions on how to get permission from the company or artist to make one or more copies through limited licensing. My church does this in order to make compilation cds for free retreats. We have had to transfer some older songs from a record to a cd. Many times the Christian artists will allow us to make our limited number of copies at no cost because we do not sell the cds.

If you are worried about only liking one song on a cd, then you should listen to it in a store or in online samples before buying. Having bought a so-so cd once or twice is no excuse to steal from someone else.

 

[HopeFull_Mom]

I hope I’m wrong, but your post seemed like you were looking for excuses to not pay people for their music.

Look, I’m just being honest and wanting to hear what others think. If I was simply trying to make excuses as you suggest why would I bother posting here where the majority of people seem to think this is wrong.

You may happen to “know” some “musical artists” who have trouble paying there bills but the only songs I’ve ever downloaded are from very mainstream artists who, I’m sorry, you would not be able to convince me are in financial difficulty. Also, in my country, the courts ruled this sort of thing was not illegal.

I admited that I didn’t have a stand on this issue. I’m not convinced it is stealing. As a Catholic, though, I like to make sure I have an informed conscience. That is why I am here to see what others say to listen to arguments on both sides.

If you would like to convince me to think like you, the last thing I would suggest is to accuse me of being some sort of thief who is just trying to make excuses for their erroneous behavior while whinning about your “poor” musical artist friends who are barely making it. No musical artist who had any talent would say "You can’t listen to my music until you pay for it.’