Coronavirus and the Sacraments...but, but, but

[Gorgias]

why would I worry about being exposed to a virus by taking in the body and blood of Christ

As long as what you mean is “I trust in God, and no matter what happens physically, He’s by my side”, then cool. But, if what you mean is “it’s the Eucharist, and therefore, it will kill the coronavirus”, then you’re being superstitious.

 

[redal]

And if we believe that the consecrated wine is the blood of Christ, wouldn’t that also be coronavirus free?

No. But, this is a common, albeit dangerous, misconception that we see when a few people make claims that there are no worries transmitting disease through receiving the cup by an ill person because the Precious Blood cannot do harm.

As 1ke pointed out, the substance changes, but the accidents remain.

 

[Phemie]

ProfessorF:

And if we believe that the consecrated wine is the blood of Christ, wouldn’t that also be coronavirus free?

No. But, this is a common, albeit dangerous, misconception that we see when a few people make claims that there are no worries transmitting disease through receiving the cup by an ill person because the Precious Blood cannot do harm.

As 1ke pointed out, the substance changes, but the accidents remain.

And the chalice itself is a source of contamination when handled by many hands. The rim is wiped after each communicant but the area they had their hands on isn’t.

 

[Crocus]

And the chalice itself is a source of contamination when handled by many hands. The rim is wiped after each communicant but the area they had their hands on isn’t.

This had never occurred to me previously, however my practice was to wash hands at the first opportunity after leaving church in any case, and to wash hands before preparing food and/or eating.

 

[annad347]

… if what you mean is “it’s the Eucharist, and therefore, it will kill the coronavirus”, then you’re being superstitious.

Or a believer of miracles… is it superstitious to believe in miracles?

I know I am the property (child) of Jesus Christ, nothing given to me in His name can kill me.

I also remember when Jesus first offered His body and blood to apostles, how He knew who would take it and who wouldn’t. I want Him to know I always will.

Think about if you knew there was a possibility that taking the body and blood of Christ can give you an illness would you still take it?

If you say no, then that means you would NEVER take the Eucharist in church.

There always a chance, way before this Corona Virus that you can become ill and maybe die by receiving the body from someone’s hand and the blood from a cup shared by a large number of strangers.

I didn’t fear it then why would I fear it now?

I will only stop when it is not longer being given. God will they never will.

 

[OddBird]

Think about if you knew there was a possibility that taking the body and blood of Christ can give you an illness would you still take it?

Here is what another French Bishop, Mgr Matthieu Rougé, has to say :

"Some have asked a legitimate question : could an evil come from communing to the Body of Christ, the Son of God Himself who comes in us and for us ?

We have to understand that, in His incarnation, Jesus shares our whole human condition, including its vulnerability. Through consecration, the bread and wine become Christ’s Body and Blood, while conserving the outer characteristics of bread and wine. When Mass is celebrated by concrete priests for concrete faithful, potentially sick or contagious, it reinforces this incarnational aspect. As paradoxical as it may seem, taking into account the sanitary risk linked to liturgical celebrations is not a lack of faith, but, on the contrary, an expression of our faith in Jesus Christ, true God and true man."

Full text, in French, here.

 

[whatistrue]

is it superstitious to believe in miracles?

I don’t believe so. What might be considered superstitious is to believe that a miracle will occur whenever you want one to or recite the proper phrase. Like:

nothing given to me in His name can kill me

 

[Gorgias]

I know I am the property (child) of Jesus Christ, nothing given to me in His name can kill me.

So, if by that, you mean that you can’t contract coronavirus when receiving the Eucharist, then I’d say that this is more “superstition” than “belief in miracles.”

Think about if you knew there was a possibility that taking the body and blood of Christ can give you an illness would you still take it?

That’s different than the current situation, however. This isn’t just “I might get sick”; this is “we could cause the propagation of the virus among a whole group of previously-uninfected people”, as well as “we could inadvertently bolster the exponential spread of the virus.”

I didn’t fear it then why would I fear it now?

I would think that you’d also be concerned, out of love for others, of helping them cause to be infected.

 

[Sprits]

I think now it’s about crowd control and limiting human exposure to eachother.

 

[PeterT]

What is the effect of praying along with Mass on TV or live-streamed on the internet? Sure, it doesn’t fulfill the obligation to attend Sunday Mass… but that obligation has been suspended! So… what does this kind of participation actually do??? Well… it unites us to Christ and to His body, the Church! It gives us an opportunity to participate (albeit remotely) in the sacrifice of the Mass!

The only thing it doesn’t do is meet the obligation… but again, the obligation has been lifted!

It doesn’t meet the Ecclesial obligation (which has been lifted as you state) but it does help to fulfill the Divine Law to keep the Sabbath holy.

As a priest I heard the other day say, a bishop can dispense of a church law (like the obligation to attend Mass on a Sunday) but a bishop cannot ever dispense a Divine law like to keep the Sabbath holy.

 

[otjm]

If the priest represents Christ and we believe the consecrated host is the body of Christ then wouldn’t it follow that it would be coronavirus free?

No. and neither are the hands of the priest/deacon/extraordinary minister of Holy Communion, if they come in contact with the virus.

And if we believe that the consecrated wine is the blood of Christ, wouldn’t that also be coronavirus free?

Again, no. The accident of alcohol appears not strong enough to kill the virus, and the rim of the cup is a likely location to find the virus.

how can we deny the healing/cleansing power of Christ’s body and blood?

The Gospels are replete with comments about Christ healing “many” - not “all”.

God has granted many, many miracles. One however, could be guilty of the sin of presumption if one fails to take the necessary precautions to protect not only oneself, but also others.

There has been war and pestilence since the time, the mind of man remebereth not. God obviously did not intend to protect us all from all of that; and one only has to mention 2: the Black Plague and the 1918 Spanish Flu to make the point (amid the thousand and thousands of viral and biological occurrences among man).

The Host could be contaminated by the virus either from the hands of the one distributing, or from someone infected, who expelled the virus over the Hosts. Likewise the Cup could be contaminated by someone with the virus. None of that is a disbelief in God’s authority or ability to protect us; but it is presumption that He will when we take no precautions. Nor is there any guarantee that if we take all the precautions, that we will not be infected.

 

[otjm]

Or as some other wag said, they are there for more than keeping your ears apart.

 

[otjm]

It might behoove all of us, during this time, to dwell briefly on the fact that throughout the world there are Catholics who do not have a Mass available perhaps as long as once a year; and the Catholics in Japan waited @ 200 years for priests to return.

 

[Gorgias]

It doesn’t meet the Ecclesial obligation (which has been lifted as you state) but it does help to fulfill the Divine Law to keep the Sabbath holy.

Can we not keep the Sabbath holy by praying along with Liturgies that we witness via the various communications media?

Nevertheless, we can also keep the Sabbath holy by virtue of our personal prayers and devotions.

 

[annad347]

Here is what another French Bishop, Mgr Matthieu Rougé, has to say :

I’m not asking what a Bishop, Pope, priest or anyone else would do or says you can do. I’m asking what you would do.

So, if by that, you mean that you can’t contract coronavirus when receiving the Eucharist, then I’d say that this is more “superstition” than “belief in miracles.”

When did I say that I couldn’t? Please stop trying to read between the lines of what I’m saying. I don’t think I ever said anything about the Eucharist being a cure for anything or that nothing infectious can be passed to me through the Eucharist.

I said as long as it was being offered I will take it without fear because it is given to me with the blessing and will of God.

I was also trying to explain why I believe the Pope or whoever makes the decisions for the church to stopped doing everything @ProfessorF mentioned in their post… I think they’re being careful with our health, there’s nothing wrong with that, also just my opinion.

That’s different than the current situation, however…

It is the same, the only difference with this virus you are more aware of the situation and the dangers of being exposed to someone who is infected.

I’m not saying we can not get the virus, I’m just saying I would not fear taking anything given to me that is blessed by God. Even if I died, my soul will be healed… do you understand what I’m saying?

I’m also not endangering anyone I love, I’m not infected… I’m not cough or sneezing in anyone’s face… and I’ve never sung Happy Birthday so much in my life, while washing my hands.

 

[PeterT]

PeterT:

It doesn’t meet the Ecclesial obligation (which has been lifted as you state) but it does help to fulfill the Divine Law to keep the Sabbath holy.

Can we not keep the Sabbath holy by praying along with Liturgies that we witness via the various communications media?

Nevertheless, we can also keep the Sabbath holy by virtue of our personal prayers and devotions.

Absolutely!

There are many ways one can keep the Sabbath holy while we are not allowed to attend a Sunday Mass.

 

[OddBird]

I’m not asking what a Bishop, Pope, priest or anyone else would do or says you can do. I’m asking what you would do.

I am showing you what I am doing : making sure that I make an informed decision, by checking that my understanding of what happens when the Eucharist is consecrated and distributed is theologically and spiritually sound.

Reading up on what the magisterium, of which our Bishops are part, has to say, is a part of informing my conscience.

I am not so much worried about getting sick myself as about passing on a potentially deadly disease to a vulnerable person. As you probably know, in the case of the coronavirus, one can be both asymptomatic and contagious. So yes, right now, even if I could receive I’d give it a pass and make an act of spiritual communion instead.

FWIW, I live in a locked-down country. All non-essential shops and services are closed, we are asked to stay at home as much as possible and to leave it only for work (if we cannot work from home), grocery shopping and medical purposes. All religious services of any kind are cancelled for at least one month, meaning there will be no public Holy Week and Easter celebrations. As hard as it is – I’ll admit I cried – I completely support that decision.

I’m also not endangering anyone I love, I’m not infected…

Once again, one can be a bearer of the disease and show no symptoms whatsoever, but still infect others.

 

[annad347]

I wasn’t asking about the present situation I was asking as if putting yourself in the place of the original apostles. They didn’t know the importance of taking what Jesus offered when He told them take this this is my body… I bet they just thought they were humoring someone they loved and cared for by accepting what He offered… but we know the importance of taking in the Body and Blood of Christ… which is why I asked “if you knew there was a possibility that taking the body and blood of Christ can give you an illness would you still take it?” in general, not based on the present situation.

and @Gorgias, I realize why you asked what you asked, but I was just responding to your comment about me being superstitious… then asked is is superstitious to believe in miracles. My comment had nothing to do with me believing the Eucharist can save me from getting a deadly disease, or that I would believe that to the extent that if I knew I had a deadly disease I would knowingly share it with others. I’m not that stupid.

All I’m saying is that I’m not afraid. I’m not afraid to receive anything given to me that is blessed by God. None of us should be, I don’t even think the church is afraid to pass the Eucharist or have services during this time, in fact I think it’s killing them by not being able too… I think they are just being careful.

 

[Gorgias]

When did I say that I couldn’t? Please stop trying to read between the lines of what I’m saying.

OK!

It just sounded like that’s what you were saying. No worries.

I’m just saying I would not fear taking anything given to me that is blessed by God. Even if I died, my soul will be healed… do you understand what I’m saying?

Yep! Soul, not necessarily body! That’s the Eucharist!

I’m not that stupid.

You’d be surprised how many folks are saying precisely that, though…!

 

[annad347]

You’d be surprised how many folks are saying precisely that, though…!

I do worry about those who are taking this situation very nonchalant… and fear for those who are so extreme in their fears, they are hording all the toilet paper.

God is helps me balance from going over board one way or the other.