P
Padres1969
Guest
Seattle Archdiocese has suspended all public masses! Never seen anything like it.
- Status
C
CRV
Guest
Out of interest a search came up with a post from May 2009 on the thread : Is a 'crumb" still considered the Blessed Sacrament?" post #3 - which may be of interest to some people who are concerned about particles of the Lord remaining on their hands after receiving CITH.
Code:
Eucharistic Particles and the Real Presence
Question from on 05-26-2006:
Dear Mr. Donovan,
I heard from a holy and well-trained priest that if the Particles of the Eucharist are so small that it’s not visible to the eye, then it no longer retains its sign value, and therefore the Real Presence no longer subsists. However, a seminarian friend of mine and priests from his seminary say that this is false since it would imply that the Eucharist is local; another person who adheres to this latter stance supported it by having recourse to the fact that the Tridentine Rite required the index and thumbs of the priest to be always touching after the Consecration, that the priests fingers be cleansed after distributing Holy Communion, and that some people will have worse eyesight than others making it a relativistic statement to assert that the Real Presence hinges on the visibility of the Particles. A person adhering to this latter stance also claims that one should not receive Holy Communion in the hand and has tried correcting others who do so. (I know this is not an abuse since the Holy See has granted permission for it.) So, is it true that if the Particles of the Eucharist are so small that it’s not visible to the eye, the Real Presence no longer subsists? If yes, what sources would support this (e.g., papal documents, documents of any council, quotes from the Fathers of the Church, theological tracts, etc.)?
Answer by Fr. John Trigilio on 05-28-2006:
The DOCTRINE of the Real Presence is that the SUBSTANCE of bread changes into the substance of the Body of Christ. Crumbs or particles are ACCIDENTS not SUBSTANCES. Metaphysically, every particle and molecule is the Real Presence. Morally and liturgically, however, our obligation to give LATRIA (worship or adoration) is confinded to what is VISIBLY discernable. Prudence dictates that I carefully purify the chalice and ciborium and carefully fold the purificator and corporal, but I do not genuflect to questionable particles which could be the Holy Eucharist or could be dust or some other substance. Only when the ACCIDENT changes, for instance, when the consecrated host becomes contaminated with mold, then it is no longer accidentally bread and therefore the substance of the Real Presence ceases to exist as well, just as in the case of our bodies as the stomach digests Holy Communion.
P
puer.dei
Guest
Of course they are. We don’t own the word. They’re not Catholic priests.
P
Paul_Edwards
Guest
There are some noncatholic priests, for example Eastern Orthodox priests. On the contrary Episcopalian priests are not priests at all. They are part of the Anglican community and as Pope Benedict reminds us, Anglican orders are invalid. I would recommend you read Apostolicae curae which is the church’s teaching on this issue and is what Pope Benedict was basically restating again:
Last edited:
K
KD8TZC
Guest
Although you and I were not around for it, back in 1918 when the Spanish Flu hit the US, in certain areas, mass was suspended and the weekly Sunday obligation suspended. See attached article.
M
MagdalenaRita
Guest
This is very uncharitable as you can not read their hearts. Only God can.
Whenever I have attempted to read someone’s heart or motives I usually have failed. Again, only God can read people’s hearts.
Last edited:
P
puer.dei
Guest
I would recommend you realize that we cannot tell other churches what they are allowed to call their ministers.
P
Paul_Edwards
Guest
That’s up to you, I’m only telling you what the church officially recognizes them as not being. If I started wearing a cassock tomorrow and performing services, Rome would rightly say that I am not a priest whether I liked it or not.
People can call people whatever they want, but objectively they’re wrong if by priest they mean a member of the priesthood instituted by Jesus Christ (2000 years ago.)
Last edited:
C
CRV
Guest
The “accidents” of the host are what we see with our eyes - the outward appearance/form of it. The “substance” is what is within/beneath this form. For example a hardback book - the covers are the ‘accidents’ of the form which we identify that it is a book, and the pages within (once opened up) are the ‘substance’ of the book. The front and back covers and the spine of the book is not “the book itself” but only what encapsulates it.
Whilst I think in general to most people a crumb is larger than a particle, sometimes in liturgical-speak they mean the same. So the important part in that reply by Fr John Trigilio is - "questionable particles which could be the Holy Eucharist or could be dust or some other substance. "
In this scenario, obviously the communicant would be able to easily know for certainty that these clearly visible particles belonged to the Eucharist, and why we are to check our hands after receiving. Sadly, this has not always been passed along to the faithful, and consequently not many know they should be checking their hands.
Whilst I think in general to most people a crumb is larger than a particle, sometimes in liturgical-speak they mean the same. So the important part in that reply by Fr John Trigilio is - "questionable particles which could be the Holy Eucharist or could be dust or some other substance. "
Emeraldlady
New member
Just from curiousity, do consider Taylor Marshall as ‘very uncharitable’’ as well?Emeraldlady:
This is very uncharitable as you can not read their hearts. Only God can.
Whenever I have attempted to read someone’s heart or motives I usually have failed. Again, only God can read people’s hearts.
M
MagdalenaRita
Guest
I do think, at times, he makes comments that are uncharitable. There are few among us who haven’t said something uncharitable but I wasn’t reading a comment he said. Also, I didn’t say you were very uncharitable, but the comment was uncharitable.
God bless
Last edited:
H
Herculees
Guest
The fact that they did it means they can! The question really is: should they take the option away from you? I’m not sure how I feel about that! I am a Maronite Catholic and our bishop contacted the Patriarch about whether any changes should take place and he said the sign of peace should continue the way we have always done it. As far as communion goes the Maronite Church does NOT permit people to receive in the hands. Only an ordained is permitted to touch the Eucharist, and therefore we have NO Eucharistic Ministers.
A
Anne1964
Guest
Our bishop just announced today that Mass attendance is now optional until further notice.
He Has recommended that reception of the Precious Blood be suspended and that no one shake hands during the Sign of Peace.
I am on the parish Council at my church and when we met this evening our priest told us he has reviewed the available research as to whether COTT is more likely to spread infection then CITH. According to what he read he believes COTT is safer and he plans to assure people that they may continue to receive in that manner.
I would estimate 75% of the people in my parish receive via COTT.
He Has recommended that reception of the Precious Blood be suspended and that no one shake hands during the Sign of Peace.
I am on the parish Council at my church and when we met this evening our priest told us he has reviewed the available research as to whether COTT is more likely to spread infection then CITH. According to what he read he believes COTT is safer and he plans to assure people that they may continue to receive in that manner.
I would estimate 75% of the people in my parish receive via COTT.
H
Herculees
Guest
Some churches/shrines have hand sanitizer somewhere in the altar area for priests/eucharistic ministers to use prior to administering the Eucharist to anyone.
C
Camehome4john6
Guest
That’s a good thing but I’m not sure why this is directed at me.
- Status