Corporal mortification sin?

[blessedrosary]

I have been curious about whether or not this is a sin. I have thought for a while that it can be good especiallly if it prevents us from sinning, but then i wondered if it is wrong since it is not showing respect to our temple of the holy spirit. I’m confused. Please help

 

[Flopfoot]

People here suggest that you should always consult a priest, or else a spiritual director, before using corporal mortification as penance.

I think a generally good idea is to avoid things that would actually harm your body, as opposed to just making you feel pain (the pain is what makes it a penance, not harming yourself).

Eg, Kneeling on concrete/ashphalt etc. should be fine. (My parents would make me/siblings do this sometimes when we’d been bad).
Running in the heat until you collapse from exhaustion is probably not fine - it can be quite dangerous for your body.

 

[Magicsilence]

Let it bring you closer to God, but do not permanently harm the body.

In Christ.

Andre.

 

[puzzleannie]

there is a difference between mortification and self-abuse. The first is a legitimate spiritual tool which serves to tame the temptation to sin through the senses. Examples are fast and abstinence from certain foods, from pleasurable substances like wine, from sex, or willingly accepting some discomfort and “offering it up”.

Self-abuse is just that deliberately inflicting physical pain or mutilation without a comparable benefit. This springs from psychological disorders that should be treated. For instance cutting out of guilt feelings is wrong, but allowing a surgeon to cut into the body to remove a tumor is a proportional good.

Even good or acceptable mortifications can contribute to a harmful state of mind if they arise out of inappropriate guilt feelings, OCD etc.

The Church has prescribed times and seasons for fast and abstinence, and traditions regarding these penitential practices. Offering up the inconveniences, annoyances and discomforts of daily life by recalling Christ’s passion and uniting ourselves with it is a long, beneficial and healthy tradition. St. Therese is the best-known proponent of this attitude. Anything beyond that should not be attempted outside the guidance of a spiritual director.

example, NFP is a recognize legitimate way for married couples to space their pregnancies or to avoid pregnancy if there is a legitimate reason, and it involves periodic abstinence from the marital act. But for a couple to abstain from sex for a long period of time without a grave reason is not healthy for a marriage and should only be agreed on mutually under spiritual direction, as St. Paul warns us.

 

[twiztedseraph]

blessedrosary:

I have been curious about whether or not this is a sin. I have thought for a while that it can be good especiallly if it prevents us from sinning, but then i wondered if it is wrong since it is not showing respect to our temple of the holy spirit. I’m confused. Please help

St Francis and St Benedict would rather jump into thorn bushes or roll in snow rather than masturbate…draw your own conclusion.

 

[johnq]

1Cor.9

26] Well, I do not run aimlessly, I do not box as one beating the air;
27] but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

1Cor.13

3] If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my** body** to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Here is some food for thought.

 

[TNAB]

I am Catholic, and it is appalling to me how self-mortification can EVER be approved, even under a spiritual director.

It is my firm belief that those who perform mortification, in terms of physically harming the body (cutting, etc), is 100% against the moral law. I think that those who feel that they need to perform such acts as a form of punishment are unaware of God’s love and mercy. Inflicting pain on oneself is never good and is not healthy. What those who do this probably do not realize is that these acts do not bring them closer to God, but further away. By harming oneself, we depend on ourselves NOT on God to transform us… If we feel like we need to cut ourselves in order to prevent ourselves from sinning, then we are depending on ourselves and not on God…This is a true lack of faith and is gravely against Jesus and his teachings.

 

[LilyM]

I am Catholic, and it is appalling to me how self-mortification can EVER be approved, even under a spiritual director.

It is my firm belief that those who perform mortification, in terms of physically harming the body (cutting, etc), is 100% against the moral law. I think that those who feel that they need to perform such acts as a form of punishment are unaware of God’s love and mercy. Inflicting pain on oneself is never good and is not healthy. What those who do this probably do not realize is that these acts do not bring them closer to God, but further away. By harming oneself, we depend on ourselves NOT on God to transform us… If we feel like we need to cut ourselves in order to prevent ourselves from sinning, then we are depending on ourselves and not on God…This is a true lack of faith and is gravely against Jesus and his teachings.

Firstly by ‘mortification’ we are not talking about physical harm. Priests know the difference and would not approve something that involved real physical harm.

Remember elite athletes train very hard - sometimes to the point where they throw up. And ordinary people join ‘polar bear’ swimming clubs (swimming in cold water in winter). If they were in any real danger of physical harm their coaches and the medical profession would stop it, and the rest of society would consider it abuse or mental illness. Neither is the case, because the body is in fact far more resilient and can tolerate far more without harm than most of us realise.

So if you go on bread and water for a day or two, or jump in a cold shower every morning, or a thorn bush, or even were whipped (not to the point of breaking the skin or bruising, and it can be done so as to leave no marks of any kind afterwards), you would feel discomfort, sure. Even extreme discomfort.

However, in such cases you are not doing no more actual harm to your body than the elite athlete or polar bear swimmer. Not unless there’s some underlying health condition already existing, or unless you take it to extremes. In fact some of these things can actually be good for your body

Now St Paul explicitly used the analogy of an athlete training their body in reference to his own practice of mortification - which means we are not just to be amateurs indulging only occasionally in the practice of mortification, but daily practitioners at a significant level. As were a lot of the saints, and their sanctity is not unrelated to their practice of mortification. Sure, some didn’t but many of those (such as St Therese of Lisieux) had other significant crosses and sufferings to offer up - severe and prolonged illness and such.

 

[TNAB]

Firstly by ‘mortification’ we are not talking about physical harm. Priests know the difference and would not approve something that involved real physical harm.

Remember elite athletes train very hard - sometimes to the point where they throw up. And ordinary people join ‘polar bear’ swimming clubs (swimming in cold water in winter). If they were in any real danger of physical harm their coaches and the medical profession would stop it, and the rest of society would consider it abuse or mental illness. Neither is the case, because the body is in fact far more resilient and can tolerate far more without harm than most of us realise.

So if you go on bread and water for a day or two, or jump in a cold shower every morning, or a thorn bush, or even were whipped (not to the point of breaking the skin or bruising, and it can be done so as to leave no marks of any kind afterwards), you would feel discomfort, sure. Even extreme discomfort.

However, in such cases you are not doing no more actual harm to your body than the elite athlete or polar bear swimmer. Not unless there’s some underlying health condition already existing, or unless you take it to extremes. In fact some of these things can actually be good for your body

Now St Paul explicitly used the analogy of an athlete training their body in reference to his own practice of mortification - which means we are not just to be amateurs indulging only occasionally in the practice of mortification, but daily practitioners at a significant level. As were a lot of the saints, and their sanctity is not unrelated to their practice of mortification. Sure, some didn’t but many of those (such as St Therese of Lisieux) had other significant crosses and sufferings to offer up - severe and prolonged illness and such.

I just still have a problem with intentionally causing yourself pain…wouldn’t going through a thorn bush or getting whipped cause that? If God is truly good, I highly doubt that he wants us to cause ourselves pain…this does nothing to strengthen our faith.

There is a difference however, when pain (such as illness) is inflicted on our bodies beyond our control. In that situation, it is good to accept it as God’s will and live life to the fullest despite the sickness…However to intentionally cause ourselves pain or seek illness…don’t think so…Jesus sacrificed HIMSELF for us.

 

[LilyM]

** If God is truly good, I highly doubt that he wants us to cause ourselves pain…this does nothing to strengthen our faith.**

Tell that to the many saints who have found the complete opposite, that corporal and other mortification (when done appropriately under the guidance of a spiritual director) DOES strengthen their faith.

As I said, it’s just like athletes who go through punishing and painful training regimes find it strengthens their bodies.

You might want to consider the following passage from the Catechism:

*2015 The way of perfection passes by way of the Cross. There is no holiness without renunciation and spiritual battle.68 Spiritual progress entails the ascesis and mortification that gradually lead to living in the peace and joy of the Beatitudes … *

So it would appear that there is a whole lot more involved to holiness than just passively accepting sufferings or mortifications that are inflicted upon you, and rather we need ascesis - deliberate self-mortification. Which can be physical as well as spiritual.

 

[TNAB]

Tell that to the many saints who have found the complete opposite, that corporal and other mortification (when done appropriately under the guidance of a spiritual director) DOES strengthen their faith.

As I said, it’s just like athletes who go through punishing and painful training regimes find it strengthens their bodies.

You might want to consider the following passage from the Catechism:

2015 The way of perfection passes by way of the Cross. There is no holiness without renunciation and spiritual battle.68 Spiritual progress entails the ascesis and mortification that gradually lead to living in the peace and joy of the Beatitudes …

So it would appear that there is a whole lot more involved to holiness than just passively accepting sufferings or mortifications that are inflicted upon you, and rather we need ascesis - deliberate self-mortification. Which can be physical as well as spiritual.

I understand where you are coming from, but I think that by doing these things, we attempt to change ourselves and do not completely allow God to do so. As a consequence, this indicates a lack of faith in God… Belief that He cannot change us, so we must try to do it ourselves.

Perhaps this stems from an inadequate understanding of God’s character…The thought that we need to work to attain his love, when the truth lies in the fact that He loves us unconditionally and is not a “demanding” and “angry” God …It diminishes the view of God’s grace and views it as something that we must earn, instead of one that is freely given.

I understand and follow the observances of fasting during the season of Lent. These do not cause pain, as some other mortifications that you listed seem to. Whipping or spanking, for instance, would be considered abuse by today’s standards. I do not see how some of these methods of mortification wouldn’t also be considered so.

I think that it is a shame that some saints felt that they needed to cause themselves pain in order to grow in holiness. I definitely think that some went way too far, and perhaps they felt that the pain itself was bringing them to holiness, while in reality, it was drawing them away. Thanks be to God for bringing the goodness out of the self-inflicted pain…

Now I am not saying that all mortification is necessarily bad, such as the occasional fasting during lent, but daily ones that cause pain (such as the whipping or running through thorn bushes) are too extreme, in my opinion…I think by performing these, we become slaves to the acts themselves…There is no way that constant prayer cannot be a more affective way of bringing us to holiness.

 

[LilyM]

I understand where you are coming from, but I think that by doing these things, we attempt to change ourselves and do not completely allow God to do so. As a consequence, this indicates a lack of faith in God… Belief that He cannot change us, so we must try to do it ourselves.

Perhaps this stems from an inadequate understanding of God’s character…The thought that we need to work to attain his love, when the truth lies in the fact that He loves us unconditionally and is not a “demanding” and “angry” God …It diminishes the view of God’s grace and views it as something that we must earn, instead of one that is freely given.

It’s not about working to attain God’s love, it’s about working to be masters of our bodies and our senses rather than their slaves. We need to do this so that we can put them entirely at the service of God without worldly comfort or pleasure being a distraction.

I understand and follow the observances of fasting during the season of Lent. These do not cause pain, as some other mortifications that you listed seem to. Whipping or spanking, for instance, would be considered abuse by today’s standards. I do not see how some of these methods of mortification wouldn’t also be considered so.

What if you were called on to be a martyr for the faith? To suffer agonising torture and death and remain steadfast throughout? If the idea of one stroke of a whip fills you with such horror then how could you hope to endure to be tortured and worse for His sake?

It would be like someone who’s never even run a few yards after a bus in their lives suddenly being called on to run a marathon. Or a soldier who has been sheltered from ever hearing the sound of gunfire suddenly being thrown into combat and expected to maintain composure with guns going off all around.

Not that it’s utterly impossible, but it surely would be as near it as makes no difference.

I think that it is a shame that some saints felt that they needed to cause themselves pain in order to grow in holiness. I definitely think that some went way too far, and perhaps they felt that the pain itself was bringing them to holiness, while in reality, it was drawing them away. Thanks be to God for bringing the goodness out of the self-inflicted pain…

For the most part they didn’t feel it was a shame, they didn’t feel that God was bringing good to them in spite of their mortifications, but rather because those mortifications enabled them to follow His will and not their own. And their followers who saw the effects of what they did felt the same. I think if they were on the wrong track God would let them and us know.

Now I am not saying that all mortification is necessarily bad, such as the occasional fasting during lent, but daily ones that cause pain (such as the whipping or running through thorn bushes) are too extreme, in my opinion…I think by performing these, we become slaves to the acts themselves…There is no way that constant prayer cannot be a more affective way of bringing us to holiness.

Constant prayer is not incompatible with mortification, nor an alternative and less effective way of doing the same thing. Jesus said some devils can only be driven out by the combination of prayer and fasting (for which we can read other mortifications too), which teaches us that each enhances the power of the other, that the two should be used together for greatest effect.

Did He think John the Baptist was becoming a ‘slave to the act’ of his hairshirt? His fasting? His isolation in the wilderness? Did He not rather praise John as the best of all men born of women - without adding ‘but all those mortifications were SO unnecessary …’?

 

[TNAB]

What if you were called on to be a martyr for the faith? To suffer agonising torture and death and remain steadfast throughout? If the idea of one stroke of a whip fills you with such horror then how could you hope to endure to be tortured and worse for His sake?

We are martyrs under situations in which we have little to no choice about whether to be one… For example, if someone put a gun up to my face and said, “do you believe in God,” we have an obligation to say “yes.” However, this does not mean we should deliberately go out, try to find someone who would shoot you for saying “yes”, and then be a “martyr.” In the same way, we shouldn’t try to go and inflict ourselves with pain, but we should accept it if it occurs.

…’?

For the most part they didn’t feel it was a shame, they didn’t feel that God was bringing good to them in spite of their mortifications, but rather because those mortifications enabled them to follow His will and not their own. And their followers who saw the effects of what they did felt the same. I think if they were on the wrong track God would let them and us know.

I just do not understand how causing pain upon oneself is submitting your will to God…Jesus also came to show us peace…How is causing pain upon oneself a peaceful act? When we diliberately cause ourselves lack of peace (through pain), we surely do not do the will of God. We are doing our own will, by not living in peace.

…’?

 

[LilyM]

We are martyrs under situations in which we have little to no choice about whether to be one… For example, if someone put a gun up to my face and said, “do you believe in God,” we have an obligation to say “yes.” However, this does not mean we should deliberately go out, try to find someone who would shoot you for saying “yes”, and then be a “martyr.” In the same way, we shouldn’t try to go and inflict ourselves with pain, but we should accept it if it occurs.

There is no situation in which we have little to no choice. Firstly we ALWAYS have the choice to say ‘No, I don’t believe in God’. Many have done so. And someone unpracticed in self-denial and unused to physical discomfort is much more likely to take that option when under threat.

Secondly we ALWAYS have the choice to opt to suffer but then to whinge and moan and protest and let everyone else know that we are suffering in such a way that it is NOT a true sacrifice to God. Remember St Paul - ‘if I give away all I have, and even my body to be burned, but have not love, it is worthless’.

Love is suffering joyfully and willingly and patiently, silently if possible. Ever seen the movie ‘Song of Bernadette’ where she willingly, patiently and silently suffers under the illness which finally kills her - not even telling her fellow sister who is hard on her that she is ill until near the end?

Love is forgiving even the very people who are torturing and killing you, as Christ did. Again, someone unused to suffering, someone who does not imitate Christ who was ‘a man of sorrows and familiar with suffering’, is highly unlikely to adopt the necessary attitude of patience, willingness to suffer, to ‘embrace the cross’ rather than grudgingly and unwillingly carrying it.

I just do not understand how causing pain upon oneself is submitting your will to God…Jesus also came to show us peace…How is causing pain upon oneself a peaceful act? When we diliberately cause ourselves lack of peace (through pain), we surely do not do the will of God. We are doing our own will, by not living in peace.

‘I come not to bring peace, but the sword’. Isn’t martyrdom your definition of a time when we ‘surely do not do the will of God’ - by deliberately causing lack of peace (pain) upon ourselves - pain that can easily be avoided by denying our faith?

When I wake up on a wintry Sunday morning and REALLY don’t feel like going to Mass, it can cause me enormous pain and certainly a great lack of peace to drag myself out of bed and head to church. It would be much more pleasant and peaceful to sleep all day. When I sin mortally it is by far the pleasantest and most peaceful thing to say ‘well, God wouldn’t expect me to go through the pain of admitting that in confession. I’ll just pray to Him privately for forgiveness’. Yet I am called on to do the difficult thing, the UNpeaceful thing.

When a mother hears her child ask for something the child can’t have for the hundredth time in as many minutes, it certainly can be painful to resist the temptation to wring the kid’s neck. And it can also be painful to resist the temptation to give in and get the child what it wants purely for the sake of shutting it up. In most situations both actions would be utterly wrong, and either extreme must be resisted.

 

[TNAB]

There is no situation in which we have little to no choice. Firstly we ALWAYS have the choice to say ‘No, I don’t believe in God’. Many have done so. And someone unpracticed in self-denial and unused to physical discomfort is much more likely to take that option when under threat.

Secondly we ALWAYS have the choice to opt to suffer but then to whinge and moan and protest and let everyone else know that we are suffering in such a way that it is NOT a true sacrifice to God. Remember St Paul - ‘if I give away all I have, and even my body to be burned, but have not love, it is worthless’.

Love is suffering joyfully and willingly and patiently, silently if possible. Ever seen the movie ‘Song of Bernadette’ where she willingly, patiently and silently suffers under the illness which finally kills her - not even telling her fellow sister who is hard on her that she is ill until near the end?

Love is forgiving even the very people who are torturing and killing you, as Christ did. Again, someone unused to suffering, someone who does not imitate Christ who was ‘a man of sorrows and familiar with suffering’, is highly unlikely to adopt the necessary attitude of patience, willingness to suffer, to ‘embrace the cross’ rather than grudgingly and unwillingly carrying it.

‘I come not to bring peace, but the sword’. Isn’t martyrdom your definition of a time when we ‘surely do not do the will of God’ - by deliberately causing lack of peace (pain) upon ourselves - pain that can easily be avoided by denying our faith?

When I wake up on a wintry Sunday morning and REALLY don’t feel like going to Mass, it can cause me enormous pain and certainly a great lack of peace to drag myself out of bed and head to church. It would be much more pleasant and peaceful to sleep all day. When I sin mortally it is by far the pleasantest and most peaceful thing to say ‘well, God wouldn’t expect me to go through the pain of admitting that in confession. I’ll just pray to Him privately for forgiveness’. Yet I am called on to do the difficult thing, the UNpeaceful thing.

When a mother hears her child ask for something the child can’t have for the hundredth time in as many minutes, it certainly can be painful to resist the temptation to wring the kid’s neck. And it can also be painful to resist the temptation to give in and get the child what it wants purely for the sake of shutting it up. In most situations both actions would be utterly wrong, and either extreme must be resisted.

First of all, Christ did not choose to be crucified…It was the father’s will that he go through the pain and be put to death…I have never read anything in holy scripture about Jesus whipping himself either. There is a difference here between the father’s will and our own will.

Secondly, Jesus stressed peace and this is his main teaching: “Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you.” By the “sword,” Jesus is referring to judgement…With the rewards of heaven obtained by Christ, comes the potential losses of Hell as well.

If you feel that it is “painful” to go to confession, I don’t think that you are viewing this sacrament correctly. It is by no means “painful” but a great gift that God has given us…If we feel it is a pain to go to, I really don’t think we have the right attitude. Yes we should not try to sin, but we can only do this through faith…Prayer and devotion to God, but not through forcing OURSELVES by self-inflicted pain.

Why is it that you go to mass…Because you HAVE to? Again–wrong attitude. We don’t grow in love because we feel that we have to go…We do however when we feel that we want to go and that it will help us to grow spiritually. By saying this, I am not discouraging going to mass, but I am making you question your reasons for going…

Why do we follow anything in the law???..Seeking pain seems to make us do things out of fear and not love…Remember the teaching in the CCC…The New Law is the law of love because it makes us act out of love, and NOT fear (of pain or any other self-infliction). This is the law of the Gospel and is a fulfillment of the Old Law. When we cause ourselves pain, this is what would naturally go through my mind, “Better not commit anymore sins, otherwise I’ll have to whip myself and that will hurt”…In other words I’m afraid…I am acting out of fear and not pure love. It’s the wrong path…It’s a “do it yourself” path…I can in no way see how this brings us to TRUE holiness…

I don’t understand how self infliction of pain, whether it be a “sacrifice” or another motivation does not often develop into an addiction and some type of disorder. Seeking pain is not seeking God.

 

[nmoerbeek]

I am Catholic, and it is appalling to me how self-mortification can EVER be approved, even under a spiritual director.

It is my firm belief that those who perform mortification, in terms of physically harming the body (cutting, etc), is 100% against the moral law. I think that those who feel that they need to perform such acts as a form of punishment are unaware of God’s love and mercy. Inflicting pain on oneself is never good and is not healthy. What those who do this probably do not realize is that these acts do not bring them closer to God, but further away. By harming oneself, we depend on ourselves NOT on God to transform us… If we feel like we need to cut ourselves in order to prevent ourselves from sinning, then we are depending on ourselves and not on God…This is a true lack of faith and is gravely against Jesus and his teachings.

You need to read the lives of the Saints
How about
St Benedict
St Francis

St Padre Pio
Blessed Mother Theresa wore a cilice from time to time

 

[nmoerbeek]

. Seeking pain is not seeking God.

Seeking suffering out of love for God is seeking God. It allows one to understand the depths of his passion and love for us. It overwhelms the sinners heart with how much God loved us to suffer for us.

Corporal mortification is considered to be a heroic along with fasting and sleep deprivation. When a person is up for Saint hood the evaluate not only whether they mortified themselves but how enthusiastically they did it. Do not forgot that Christ said

“Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.” (Luke 10:13)

 

[DL82]

I’ve just come back from walking 70 miles through the French countryside on pilgrimage, it was hard, and i’m suffering from it now, but it was a joyful experience, an experience of being pushed beyond what I could cope with myself, and letting the Lord carry me.

I did it to witness to God, and to experience His love. I didn’t do it to punish myself (that would be to doubt God’s love), I didn’t do it to MAKE God love me more (that would be Pelagianism) and I didn’t do it because I enjoyed the suffering (that would be Masochism). I did it just because God is God, because I wanted to be obedient to Him, and join in encouraging my brothers and sisters (some 10,000 pilgrims) on the journey.

I can understand your concerns. I think the key is going back to the word ‘mortification’, it means ‘putting to death’ - St Paul warns us to put to death whatever in the flesh wars against the spirit. That doesn’t mean hating our bodies, it means not being dominated by them. It means being detached from both pain and pleasure, seeking God in both. To be detached, we have to occasionally prove it to ourselves. Just like you need to actually fast to prove that you can fast, you need to actually say you’re sorry for your sins in confession to prove that you have contrition (not to prove it to God, who knows all things, but to know in your heart, because the human heart is a deep and confusing thing), so, sometimes, you have to deprive yourself of pleasures to prove to yourself that you really are ready to do so, that you are master of your passions, rather than your passions mastering you. Mortification isn’t about self-hatred, nor about winning God’s love. Mortification is about being head over our own bodies, and giving that headship over in submission to Christ, who is the head of His Body the Church.

 

[LilyM]

First of all, Christ did not choose to be crucified…It was the father’s will that he go through the pain and be put to death…I have never read anything in holy scripture about Jesus whipping himself either. There is a difference here between the father’s will and our own will.

Christ absolutely chose to be crucified. To say otherwise is to deny His complete humanity - it would be to say that He lacked the free will to disobey the Father which all humans have. It would be, in other words, to say that Christ wasn’t human and that His incarnation was a useless sham.

If you feel that it is “painful” to go to confession, I don’t think that you are viewing this sacrament correctly. It is by no means “painful” but a great gift that God has given us…If we feel it is a pain to go to, I really don’t think we have the right attitude. Yes we should not try to sin, but we can only do this through faith…Prayer and devotion to God, but not through forcing OURSELVES by self-inflicted pain.

Are you saying contemplating my sins and the damage they’ve caused shouldn’t be painful? That I should either be indifferent to my sin or happy about it? If you think so, I’d humbly suggest that it is yourself who has the wrong attitude to the sacrament. Sure it brings healing, as a surgeon’s knife brings healing. First is the pain of the cut, however.

Why is it that you go to mass…Because you HAVE to? Again–wrong attitude. We don’t grow in love because we feel that we have to go…We do however when we feel that we want to go and that it will help us to grow spiritually. By saying this, I am not discouraging going to mass, but I am making you question your reasons for going…

Bad example. Getting up on a winter’s morning for any reason is painful - I suffer pain and stiffness in my joints in cold weather. I picked Mass just because it IS something I’d particularly make the effort to get up for, rain hail or shine.

In other words I’m afraid…I am acting out of fear and not pure love.

Which is OK - Jesus said ‘fear not him who can destroy only the body, rather him who can destroy both body and soul in hell’. Granted, we are not to always and only live in fear, not to let it predominate, but a dose helathy fear from time to time is helpful rather than wrong. Besides which, many of the saints endured their mortifications out of a desire to imitate and unite themselves with the saving sufferings of Christ. This sounds entirely like love of Him rather than fear of any kind to me.

It’s the wrong path…It’s a “do it yourself” path…I can in no way see how this brings us to TRUE holiness.

I don’t understand how self infliction of pain, whether it be a “sacrifice” or another motivation does not often develop into an addiction and some type of disorder. Seeking pain is not seeking God.

All I can say is trust the words and example of those saints who DID find true holiness, DID find God, did NOT develop any addictions or other disorders, from their mortifications. And seek and trust the advice of your spiritual director as well!

 

[budgie2]

I don’t know what other people have said but I think organisations such as Opus Dei use corporal mortification. Personally I wouldn’t make myself feel pain for the sake of it as this could be a form of masochism. However, you could make sacrifices in other ways if it helps somebody else. For example:

• abstain from meat or give up a meal on Friday and give the money to charity or a friend in need.
• give up smoking or drinking too much, or pornography.
• spend money on somebody in need that you were going to spend on yourself for your own leisure. I would give up my pocket money and give it to charity sometimes.
• spend less time on looking at yourself in the mirror.
• fast within reason instead of dieting.
• get rid of vanity. Don’t wear make-up or jewellery if you’re a woman.