Corporal Mortification?

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Fr. Jordan was one of my professors in Spiritual Theology. He was a very wise man when it came to this subject. Everything I know about it, I owe to him. Some people disagree with him, but I believe it’s because of a tendency to romanticize the saints. Also, we often forget that the saints are human beings who reach sanctity along a journey. Practices and penances that they may have thought appropriate at one point, become inappropriate at another point as they go deeper and deeper into the ascetical life.

Look at St. Francis of Assisi and Bl. Mother Teresa. Can anyone imagine two greater ascetics than these two? Both of them did exactly what Fr. Jordan says. They sacrificed by doing what they had to do, even when it was hard and repugnant. To do it with joy and love is not easy.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
I’m sure glad Fr. Jordan was one of your teachers, Br. JR, because you so kindly pass this knowlege along to us. Thank you.😃
 
Corporal mortification is a form of mental illness.
Many of our holy saints, let me name only St. Anthony Mary Claret, then must be counted mad. If you familiarize yourself with his astonishingly fruitful life, you will see that such mortification can be quite salutary. Few saner souls have walked this good earth.
 
This thread reminds me of some of the sayings of St. Josemaria Escriva.

*That joke, that witty remark held on the tip of your tongue; the cheerful smile for those who annoy you; that silence when you’re unjustly accused; your friendly conversation with people whom you find boring and tactless; the daily effort to overlook one irritating detail or another in the persons who live with you… this, with perseverance, is indeed solid interior mortification.
  • The Way 173*
*Don’t say: ‘That person gets on my nerves.’ Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'
  • The Way 174*
*The world admires only spectacular sacrifice, because it does not realize the value of sacrifice that is hidden and silent.
  • The Way 185*
*The heroic minute. It is the time fixed for getting up. Without hesitation: a supernatural reflection and… up! The heroic minute: here you have a mortification that strengthens your will and does no harm to your body.
  • The Way 206*
More at escrivaworks.org/book/the_way-subject-151.htm

-Tim-
 
After reading about one of my favorite saints (Padre Pio) engaging in self-mortification, I felt ashamed because I felt like I should be practicing some form of it myself.

Then one day I was listening to some Father Corapi tapes and he mentioned how the saints would wear clothes made of horse hair and slept on bare floors. The saints did these things as a cross to bear for our Lord. Father Corapi went on to say that you do not need to do such things as your cross can be sitting next to you! LOL:D (meaning your spouse, of course). I’ll never forget that, made SO much sense to me…
I was surprised to see a post with Fr. Coropi’s name, I wish I knew how to start a thread, but I’d like to see how people feel about the way he left the Church. I had adored him, actually got to go to one of his speeches and meet him. I feel we’re missing out on a great priest, but as a priest, he was subject to what all priests are…accusations, hateful comments even death threats. Just strange, and on Ash wednesday…sorry to go off on that, just haven’t heard a thing about him since he left. brought back memories of his speeches:)
 
I am fortunate to have been born in Philadelphia. St.John Newman, a Redemptorist, was the bishop of Philadelphia in the church I was confirmed in on Easter Vigil in 1998. At his shrine they had all sorts of self mortification devices. don’t remember what they were called, but it was like chain mail with needle type ends around the neck he wore under his habit.All the Redemptorists did that. But that could be extreme.(by today’s views). Even doing without your favorite food can be a form of it. Quiting smoking was it for me…every nicotine fit I prayed someone was coming out of Purgatory. Good topic. Wouldn’t not getting into it with someone who is anti-Catholic with really bad misinformation a form of self mortification? Isn’t letting someone be wrong a form of it too? Just ideas.
 
Interesting thread. As I sit here at the computer unable to sleep! Probably need to deprive myself of a little of that coffee. 😉

Reminds me however, of how the Nuns used to remind us to “offer it up” when something happened we did n’t like or we were ill or something. It seems to me that natural occurrences could be put into action as mortifications or at least serve the same purpose. I suspect that as we examine our lives, we find areas that are a problem for us - being argumentative, over-reacting to criticism, etc. Those are areas we might seek to recognize and offer up when they occur and tamp it down. It would serve two purposes, both in making a sacrifice to offer Christ, but also in bringing our lives more in harmony with what he wants of us. The other important part of what the nuns said, was to let no one know what you did, because that takes all the glory on yourself rather than to God. Kind of a pharasee and scribe moment.

Well, off to bed, hopefully to sleep!
 
Are there any catholics on here who practice some form of corporal mortification? If so, is it under a spiritual director’s guidance, what kind, etc. and what are your thoughts on the issue?
I spent four years at a Christian Brothers college in Sydney, Australia, during the mid 1970’s. Believe me, those guys were into corporal mortification big time. Corporal mortification of children in their care, that is, courtesy of specially made heavy leather straps. Bullies and cowards. Fortunately, they are a dying breed in this country and they have no teaching mandate anymore. I guess they brought their ‘traditions’ with them from Ireland where recent enquiries have revealed terrible behaviour by these monsters. Good riddance to them all. God Bless.
 
Why do we judge our neighbors? Because we are not trying to get to know ourselves. Someone busy trying to understand himself has no time to notice the shortcomings of others. Judge yourself — and you will stop judging others. Judge a poor deed, but do not judge the doer. It is necessary to consider yourself the most sinful of all, and to forgive your neighbor every poor deed. One must hate only the devil, who tempted him. It can happen that someone might appear to be doing something bad to us, but in reality, because of the doer’s good intentions, it is a good deed. Besides, the door of penitence is always open, and it is not known who will enter it sooner — you, “the judge,” or the one judged by you.

St. Seraphim of Sarov

peace
 
I spent four years at a Christian Brothers college in Sydney, Australia, during the mid 1970’s. Believe me, those guys were into corporal mortification big time. Corporal mortification of children in their care, that is, courtesy of specially made heavy leather straps. Bullies and cowards. Fortunately, they are a dying breed in this country and they have no teaching mandate anymore. I guess they brought their ‘traditions’ with them from Ireland where recent enquiries have revealed terrible behaviour by these monsters. Good riddance to them all. God Bless.
I think you are referring to Corporal Punishment. The strap was also used in non Christian schools at that time too. The thinking off the day seemed to be seemed to be that punishing children this way was effective. Thankfully it is much rarer these days.

It is something quite different to Corporal Mortification, so a bit off topic I think.
 
The article is well written. Those reading it must read between the lines. Father is speaking about people who had good mental health. These were not individuals who enjoyed pain. These were individuals who were in love with someone and were willing to do whatever they could to atone for sins against the Beloved. They knew how to use corporal mortification without offending the Beloved. They also understood that abusing the body was contrary to the will of the Beloved.
Many of our holy saints, let me name only St. Anthony Mary Claret, then must be counted mad. If you familiarize yourself with his astonishingly fruitful life, you will see that such mortification can be quite salutary. Few saner souls have walked this good earth.
There is a classical work by an early 20th century psychiatrist named William James in which he objectively discusses the difference between religious experience and mental illness. It would do many people well to read it. He’s very good. He shows how to tell the difference. He was required reading when I was working on my doctorate in Spiritual Theology. Fr. Dubey taught him to us.

It was interesting to note that there were saints who were not too well wrapped. However, they did not become saints because of their neurosis or eccentricities, but because despite them, they lead lives of heroic Christian virtue.

We know that St. Alphonsus de Ligouri suffered from scrupulosity, which is a form of anxiety; but he used it well. He acknowledged that he had this condition and he used it to help him live a heroic life of virtue.

St. Francis of Assisi may have suffered from chronic depression. Again, he acknowledges his perpetual state of sadness and made heroic efforts to find joy in his faith and his brothers.

St. Jerome was an eccentric who flew off the handle at the slightest provocation. He humbly acknowledge his struggle. This helped him to grow in humility.

Then you have saints like Teresa of Avila, Jose Maria Escriva and Bl. John Paul II who were the most balanced people in the world.
This thread reminds me of some of the sayings of St. Josemaria Escriva.

That joke, that witty remark held on the tip of your tongue; the cheerful smile for those who annoy you; that silence when you’re unjustly accused; your friendly conversation with people whom you find boring and tactless; the daily effort to overlook one irritating detail or another in the persons who live with you… this, with perseverance, is indeed solid interior mortification.
  • The Way 173
Don’t say: ‘That person gets on my nerves.’ Think: 'That person sanctifies me.'
  • The Way 174
The world admires only spectacular sacrifice, because it does not realize the value of sacrifice that is hidden and silent.
  • The Way 185
The heroic minute. It is the time fixed for getting up. Without hesitation: a supernatural reflection and… up! The heroic minute: here you have a mortification that strengthens your will and does no harm to your body.
  • The Way 206
More at escrivaworks.org/book/the_way-subject-151.htm

-Tim-
St. Jose Maria was a very practical saint. He’s right up there with people like Bl. Mother Teresa who did now allow her sisters to do any fasting and abstinence beyond what the Church requires of everyone. She said that what they did each day, when done with a smile and with love, was mortification. There was no need to look further.

The idea is not to get rid of mortification, but to find it and use is appropriately when it presents itself.

In my own community we use the Discipline twice a week. But the rule is simple. “Too much is just as bad as not enough.” It’s meant to be a reminder of our life of penance, not something that we use out of hatred for our bodies or because we get some sensory pleasure from pain. When a superior notices such a deviation, that person is no longer allowed to use the Discipline.
 
Well St. Charbel lived a life of mortification and actually wore a hair shirt along with a spiky belt. He also slept on a mat with with things like bark, sticks, straw, etc and also his pillow was a log with a cover. He also drank the dish water and only ate once and a day sometimes not even eating because nobody told him too.

I also believe St. Therese wore a cross that had spikes on it. 👍
 
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