Correct Procedure

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Famule

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Hello,
The bishop of our diocese is really giving us problems and is VERY unsupportive of tradition. He is doing all he can to stand in the way of anything traditional in our diocese. Does anyone know of the proper procedure for getting information on this to the Holy See. He is working counter to the Holy Father’s wishes and we are greatly suffering because of it. Please help!!!
 
Cardinal Antonio Cañizares Llovera
Cardinal Prefect
Congregatio de Cultu Divino et Disciplina Sacramentorum
Palazzo delle Congregazioni, 00193 Roma, Piazza Pio XII, 10
 
What exactly seems to be the problem? Precisely which of the Holy Father’s wishes is your Ordinary fighting against? Can you tell us in what ways he is so aganst tradition?

And why does your signature line read, “Come ye; the Mass is [ended]?”
 
bpbasilphx said:
Would it be worthwhile to point out that Jesus Himself already gave the procedure: bring it up between yourself and the Bishop alone first.

What exactly seems to be the problem? Precisely which of the Holy Father’s wishes is your Ordinary fighting against? Can you tell us in what ways he is so aganst tradition?

And why does your signature line read, “Come ye; the Mass is [ended]?”
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There are two processes that need to be followed. One is biblical–bringing it up to the bishop directly first, and then to the Church which in this case would be the Vatican (address in post above).

You also need to follow the church heirarchy so in your case (unless you are a priest under this bishop) would be to talk to your priest first and then the bishop. The benefit of this is that you can get information about why the bishop is doing what he is doing before going forward with complaints.

It is best to be sure you are correct in your position before complaining. So be sure you know that what the bishop is doing is objectively incorrect, or something done from incorrect motives, before you go forward.
 
Famule said:
Hello,
The bishop of our diocese is really giving us problems and is VERY unsupportive of tradition. He is doing all he can to stand in the way of anything traditional in our diocese. Does anyone know of the proper procedure for getting information on this to the Holy See. He is working counter to the Holy Father’s wishes and we are greatly suffering because of it. Please help!!!
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There seems to be a wide spead misunderstanding that everyting the Pope does, each ordinary is suppose to fall in lock step. That is not the case. The bishops are in communication with the pope and they also have a great deal of influence. There also is a misconception that he pope is somehow ending the Ordinary mass, which is far from true.
In my diocese, our ordinary, when the TLM was alowed without special tradition indacted that he would not prevent it, but that he would also not do anything to promote it, he just doesn’t have the resources. Would he be contradicting the pope’s wishes?
The tradition of the Church is now Vatican II and except on site like this, there is no movements to do otherwise.

Peace,
FAB
 
FAB said:
There seems to be a wide spead misunderstanding that everyting the Pope does, each ordinary is suppose to fall in lock step. That is not the case. The bishops are in communication with the pope and they also have a great deal of influence. There also is a misconception that he pope is somehow ending the Ordinary mass, which is far from true.
In my diocese, our ordinary, when the TLM was alowed without special tradition indacted that he would not prevent it, but that he would also not do anything to promote it, he just doesn’t have the resources. Would he be contradicting the pope’s wishes?
The tradition of the Church is now Vatican II and except on site like this, there is no movements to do otherwise.

Peace,
FAB
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Better said—what many encounter in their parishes/diocese is not Vatican II --but as the Holy Father has said—the “anti-spirit of the Council” —aka-- the “Spirit of Vatican II”. And this is the “false spirit” the Pope is trying to correct.
 
Walking_Home said:
Better said—what many encounter in their parishes/diocese is not Vatican II --but as the Holy Father has said—the “anti-spirit of the Council” —aka-- the “Spirit of Vatican II”. And this is the “false spirit” the Pope is trying to correct.
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The term about Anti Spiritof the council, I don’t believe meaning going back to tradition as it seems to understood on this site. Pope Benidict was part of Vatican II and took part in process and changes.
From his actions and what I have read, his actions in the masses he celebrates is to call us to focus on the Eucharist, that being the center of a faithful Catholic life. Instead that message seems to be lost in the actions, recieving by the tongue, kneeling, etc.
In focusing on the Euchaist, we are also called to focus on Christ message and all of His message of how we are to truely follow him. The Pope is trying to correct the faithful wondering away from the true message is Christ.

Peace,
FAB
 
There seems to be alot of talk on this thread by people that do not know the situation. I do not plan to post information on the situation as that would be gossip. I got the information I needed and I thank that person. The rest of you, enjoy your agenda of interpreting the Church.
 
FAB said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walking_Home View Post
Better said—what many encounter in their parishes/diocese is not Vatican II --but as the Holy Father has said—the “anti-spirit of the Council” —aka-- the “Spirit of Vatican II”. And this is the “false spirit” the Pope is trying to correct.
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Yes --Pope Benedict XVI was part of the Council —therefore he would have the experience of the Council and what the “Spirit of Vat II” has done in the name of the Council–this would include what has happened to the Mass. Where you create a break between focus on the Eucharist and the traditions of receiving on the tongue/kneeling —the Pope is merging the traditions and the Eucharist together.
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First of all; 40 years does not make a tradition (V2).

Secondly there is a recommended procedure that has been on the Una Voce website since 7/7/07. Our group followed this procedure and it has produced results.

If for some reason you can’t find it, PM me and I’ll do my best to set it all down for you.

God Bless
 
corsair said:
First of all; 40 years does not make a tradition (V2).

Secondly there is a recommended procedure that has been on the Una Voce website since 7/7/07. Our group followed this procedure and it has produced results.

If for some reason you can’t find it, PM me and I’ll do my best to set it all down for you.

God Bless
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I am swearing loyalty to my ordinary and his successor, I have no intention to take part in fringe group disagreements. Where are you loyalties?

Peace,
FAB
 
Walking_Home said:
“Loyalty” —well one can see where your “loyalty” is Not. Talk about “fringe”.
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It could just be that I understand the workings of the Church better than you. Since my ordinary is obediant to the mother church and the pope and I an Loyal and obediant to my ordinary, who is the authority of the local church, Then I am loyal to the mother church and the pope.
I may disagree with my ordinary, which by the way I don’t, that doesn’t mean that I would in any way try to undermind his authoirty by sending protest to Rome. That kind of devises action is more harmful to the church and it’s future than if “traditional practices” are some how reinstated or not.
None of the ritual actions that the pope has used, has he formally institued. As the ordinary of Rome he is free to do so there. Before a decision was made to institute it futher, a large number of bishops, particular those most effected by the decision would consulted, as well as theologians and layity. Since this is the process of all the working s in the church, you see the pope does not make decisions in a vacuum or alone.
Believe me, this is not fringe, but mainsteam church practice.
Peace,
FAB
 
FAB said:
It could just be that I understand the workings of the Church better than you. Since my ordinary is obediant to the mother church and the pope and I an Loyal and obediant to my ordinary, who is the authority of the local church, Then I am loyal to the mother church and the pope.
I may disagree with my ordinary, which by the way I don’t, that doesn’t mean that I would in any way try to undermind his authoirty by sending protest to Rome. That kind of devises action is more harmful to the church and it’s future than if “traditional practices” are some how reinstated or not.
None of the ritual actions that the pope has used, has he formally institued. As the ordinary of Rome he is free to do so there. Before a decision was made to institute it futher, a large number of bishops, particular those most effected by the decision would consulted, as well as theologians and layity. Since this is the process of all the working s in the church, you see the pope does not make decisions in a vacuum or alone.
Believe me, this is not fringe, but mainsteam church practice.
Peace,
FAB
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Well FAB–As by your statement–you disagree with the authority of the Pope to regulate the Mass . Now - it comes down to who you “choose” to “pledge” your “loyalty” to — and this falls since —you–have cut off the head.
 
Thank you, Walking Home, I was about to voice the same words. Seems FAB is a bit combative.

All I did was answer the question about a Proper Procedure. And one is available at UNA VOCE. seems our Holy Father gave us the right to Petition. Our group used it and our Archbishop was generous enough to invite FSSP into the Diocese.

To FAB; if Cardinal Mahoney was your Bishop would you follow his lead with regards to the celebration of the Mass? I certainly would not!
 
corsair said:
Thank you, Walking Home, I was about to voice the same words. Seems FAB is a bit combative.

All I did was answer the question about a Proper Procedure. And one is available at UNA VOCE. seems our Holy Father gave us the right to Petition. Our group used it and our Archbishop was generous enough to invite FSSP into the Diocese.

To FAB; if Cardinal Mahoney was your Bishop would you follow his lead with regards to the celebration of the Mass? I certainly would not!
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Since I don’t know how the Cardinal celebrates the mass, I can’t comment.
The reason why I speak of following my ordinary, is that under Canon Law, each diocese is considered a judicial entity which is governed specifically by the ordinary.

My question would be what means did you use to convince your ordinary to allow the FSSP into his diocese before petitioning Rome? Did you offer to raise money and build a church so other dioses resoures were not required or was in the form of a demand because you wanted the TLM?

Peace,
FAB
 
Famule said:
There seems to be alot of talk on this thread by people that do not know the situation. I do not plan to post information on the situation as that would be gossip. I got the information I needed and I thank that person. The rest of you, enjoy your agenda of interpreting the Church.
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And of course, YOU are not “interpreting the Church,” now are you?
 
Cluny said:
And of course, YOU are not “interpreting the Church,” now are you?
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I am informing the Holy See as to what I am witnessing and am letting them decide on the issue. If I were interpreting the situation, I would be posting specifics and complaining about them. Please don’t accuse me of something I have not done. Thank you.
 
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