Correct version of spiritual knowledge

  • Thread starter Thread starter dattaswami
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

dattaswami

Guest
Once you receive the true knowledge from God in human form, you will have the three correct versions

a) that you are not the God and therefore the spiritual effort must be put up.

b) The path to please the God is consisting of prayers by words, devotion by mind, discussion of God by intelligence, sacrifice of work and sacrifice of fruit of work. The last two make the plate of meals and first three form the freely supplied drinking water that must be also associated with meals.

c) God is beyond logic but gives His experience through human body (flesh). These three versions are called as Triputi, which is the real form of the spiritual knowledge.

At the Lotus feet of Datta Swami

ANIL ANTONY
 
There are basically two religious systems which prevail in the world today.

Eastern religions which gain knowledge of truth through self enlightenment and Western religion, based on the Theology passed down through the Jews, that claims to be a revelation of God.

If man is limited and imperfect then self enlightenment will ultimately fall short of perfection.

If revelation is truly from God as the Jews claim, then, if preserved properly it is perfect.
 
If revelation is truly from God as the Jews claim, then, if preserved properly it is perfect.
Click to expand...
But if humans’ imperfectness prevents them from reaching enlightenment then why would their imperfectness not keep them from messing up God’s revelation to the Jews? Logically speaking, it should work the other way around, that the closer one comes to enlightenment the closer he comes to perfection, whereas if proud humanoids try to do only what they think is best based on what they have the result would be imperfect.

Maybe the correct answer is a mix of the two…
 
Chris Jodrey:
But if humans’ imperfectness prevents them from reaching enlightenment then why would their imperfectness not keep them from messing up God’s revelation to the Jews? Logically speaking, it should work the other way around, that the closer one comes to enlightenment the closer he comes to perfection, whereas if proud humanoids try to do only what they think is best based on what they have the result would be imperfect.

Maybe the correct answer is a mix of the two…
Click to expand...
For Divine Revelation to be a dependable, it must be both divinely authentic in origin and preservation. If not, the Bible is just another book, and the Church is just another organization that has somehow managed to stay intact longer than any other in history.

Needless to say, Catholics believe Divine Revelation as passed down by the Jews and then the Church is both divinely authentic in origin and perservation.
 
Chris Jodrey:
But if humans’ imperfectness prevents them from reaching enlightenment then why would their imperfectness not keep them from messing up God’s revelation to the Jews? Logically speaking, it should work the other way around, that the closer one comes to enlightenment the closer he comes to perfection, whereas if proud humanoids try to do only what they think is best based on what they have the result would be imperfect.

Maybe the correct answer is a mix of the two…
Click to expand...
It makes sense that if God went through the trouble of giving us revelation that he would protect that revelation from corruption.

“Christ instructed the Church to preach everything he taught (Matt. 28:19–20) and promised the protection of the Holy Spirit to “guide you into all the truth” (John 16:13). That mandate and that promise guarantee the Church will never fall away from his teachings (Matt. 16:18, 1 Tim. 3:15), even if individual Catholics might.”

source
 
Chris Jodrey:
Who said that to God giving revelation is troublesome?
Click to expand...
The only trouble I can see is when people try to mix God given revelation (perfection) with self-enlightenment (imperfection). Logically, I don’t see how you can mix the two and not introduce imperfection.
 
I don’t think your logic is very logical so as to say that enlightenment is imperfect, and/or that revelation from God passed down through human hands is perfect. I mean, look at the Bible. It’s not perfect. Even Jeremiah said:

How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of Jehovah is with us? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes hath wrought falsely. The wise men are put to shame, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of Jehovah; and what manner of wisdom is in them? Therefore will I give their wives unto others, and their fields to them that shall possess them: for every one from the least even unto the greatest is given to covetousness; from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.

And there are lots of little differences in parallel histories, mainly in numbers, names, etc. I’m not sure where in the Bible it is said that God will preserve his work no matter what. That would deny the whole concept of apostasy at any time and to any degree.
 
Chris Jodrey:
I don’t think your logic is very logical so as to say that enlightenment is imperfect, and/or that revelation from God passed down through human hands is perfect. I mean, look at the Bible. It’s not perfect. Even Jeremiah said:

How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of Jehovah is with us? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes hath wrought falsely. The wise men are put to shame, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of Jehovah; and what manner of wisdom is in them? Therefore will I give their wives unto others, and their fields to them that shall possess them: for every one from the least even unto the greatest is given to covetousness; from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.

And there are lots of little differences in parallel histories, mainly in numbers, names, etc. I’m not sure where in the Bible it is said that God will preserve his work no matter what. That would deny the whole concept of apostasy at any time and to any degree.
Click to expand...
The Catholic Church has a different translation and interpretation of the Bible passage you quoted. It has taught a consistent interpretation of scripture for the past 2,000 years. It has not corrupted or watered down the message entrusted to it. This level of perfection can only be ascribed to a power that is not fallible.
 
Well, what’s the version you prefer? The one I quoted was the ASB. The KJV wasn’t explicit enough. Really, how else could that passage be interpreted?

Besides that, the only argument that Bible-perfectionists ever make is, “If God is perfect then why would he let his book get screwed?” Well, bad things happen to good people, even by the hand of bad (or imperfect) people.

Now, what I was getting at in my first post here was this – that scripture could have only been preserved if either the people doing the preserving were perfect or if God had a constant hand in it all, never letting up. But, I don’t think he secretly ‘doesn’t let us’ do something, even if it is with scripture that he has given.
 
Chris Jodrey:
I don’t think your logic is very logical so as to say that enlightenment is imperfect, and/or that revelation from God passed down through human hands is perfect. I mean, look at the Bible. It’s not perfect. Even Jeremiah said:

How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of Jehovah is with us? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes hath wrought falsely. The wise men are put to shame, they are dismayed and taken: lo, they have rejected the word of Jehovah; and what manner of wisdom is in them? Therefore will I give their wives unto others, and their fields to them that shall possess them: for every one from the least even unto the greatest is given to covetousness; from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.

And there are lots of little differences in parallel histories, mainly in numbers, names, etc. I’m not sure where in the Bible it is said that God will preserve his work no matter what. That would deny the whole concept of apostasy at any time and to any degree.
Click to expand...
Man is limited therefore any enlightenment achieved by man alone would be by definition limited and therefore imperfect.

Perfection is infinite and therefore any enlightenment no matter how highly advanced is still infinitely far from perfection.

The Bible is a love letter to his creation and in this it is perfect. It is not a science or history book. From a fundamentalist point of view, there are two separate and contradictory creation accounts at the beginning of the first book. However, they are not contradictory. They are complimentary and both express the same truth, which is among other things that God created the world and that man has a special place in that world. The Bible does not contradict itself.

The passage you are quoting does not say that the Bible is imperfect and it is a very good example for disproving the assertion that God does not protect his revelation. This quote is taken from a prophet endowed with the Holy Spirit sent by God to protect his revelation from some (not all) who have gone astray. This is a very strong passage supporting the position that God is actively and divinely protecting his revelation.

As to where in the Bible it says that God will preserve is work:

newadvent.org/bible/mat016.htm#18

“And I say to thee: That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gate of hell shall not prevail against it.”

If the church, founded by Christ, were to stray from his teaching in anyway that would be a victory for hell, and Christ in this passage promises with his divine authority that this will not occur.
 
Thanks for your reply, Tiger. I think we should open another thread for discussing the infallibility of scripture. Done.
Perfection is infinite and therefore any enlightenment no matter how highly advanced is still infinitely far from perfection.
Click to expand...
Well, I can see what you mean – I wouldn’t claim to be able to become perfect without God’s help, but would everyone concede that man does not have the potential for self-perfection?
 
Chris Jodrey:
Well, I can see what you mean – I wouldn’t claim to be able to become perfect without God’s help, but would everyone concede that man does not have the potential for self-perfection?
Click to expand...
Absolutely. Perfection can only be achieved through the grace of God. I am certain that I am missing the finer theological/philosophical points, but the main idea is that man on his own is not capable of reaching perfection no matter how sincere and thorough the search for enlightenment.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top