Costs and Benefits of Guns

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Can today’s Connecticut tragedy finally change everyone’s mind (like mine) on gun rights?
In what way?, the shooter was already prohibited under Connecticut law from possessing handguns as he was under the age of 21 and under mental health care (autistic)

Do we really expect people who are intent on crime to obey a gun law?
 
Guns are not the problem. We don’t try to prevent drunk driving by banning cars. We don’t blame spoons for people getting fat. So don’t blame guns for the wrongdoings of a few.

It is a sad but true fact that sometimes people kill other people. It’s human nature and nothing is going to change that. It’s been going on since Cain and Abel and for centuries before they even had guns. Clubs, spears, rocks, daggers, crossbows, swords etc. What makes guns any different? Someday in the future we may have laser beam pistols. Ban them, and I will revert back to a gun.

If I want to kill you, I will do it. If I don’t have a gun, I will use a knife, or a baseball bat, or run over you with my car. It is not a gun problem; it is a people problem.
But…we do blame drugs for the drug problem. By your logic they should be freely availble too?

I think the analogies you post are very strange - we try to prevent drunk driving by making it illegal to drink and drive, and to prevent obesity by encouraging healthy lifestyle choices.

There were 11,000 gun homicides in the US last year, a not insignificant number and as a previous poster showed the homicide rate in the US is just appalling. The question then becomes, if it is not the guns but people, then why does the US specifically have such a bad people problem with homicide and murder rates literally off the scale in the western world? That is the issue that needs to be addressed urgently.
 
But…we do blame drugs for the drug problem. By your logic they should be freely availble too?

I think the analogies you post are very strange - we try to prevent drunk driving by making it illegal to drink and drive, and to prevent obesity by encouraging healthy lifestyle choices.

There were 11,000 gun homicides in the US last year, a not insignificant number and as a previous poster showed the homicide rate in the US is just appalling. The question then becomes, if it is not the guns but people, then why does the US specifically have such a bad people problem with homicide and murder rates literally off the scale in the western world? That is the issue that needs to be addressed urgently.
Do you have any understaning of the chemistry of drugs? I think that you should inform yourself on the basics on the effects of drugs on the human brain before comparing them to guns.

Are you willing to explain to me why the states and the federal government are not using the laws that are already in the books to prosecute peeople and keep them at bay?

Are you serious when you ask the why the USA have such a bad problem with homicides compared to a lot of other countries? It is called the culture of death, and now that the same culture is propagating in the other countries and you can see the same trends that you have in the USA. Once you have a culture of death either the citizens kill each other or the government does that. How many pepole do die at the hands of goverments in countries where the have a big culture of death and very restrictive laws?
 
But…we do blame drugs for the drug problem. By your logic they should be freely availble too?
They should be. Making drugs illegal obviously hasn’t kept them away, and it has stirred up violence in Mexico.
There were 11,000 gun homicides in the US last year, a not insignificant number and as a previous poster showed the homicide rate in the US is just appalling. The question then becomes, if it is not the guns but people, then why does the US specifically have such a bad people problem with homicide and murder rates literally off the scale in the western world? That is the issue that needs to be addressed urgently.
And I don’t think that blaming guns deals with the underlying issues (I would say drugs and welfare). In Switzerland half the population owns guns, and they have one of the lowest homicide rates in the world. Something else is at play.
 
They should be. Making drugs illegal obviously hasn’t kept them away, and it has stirred up violence in Mexico.

And I don’t think that blaming guns deals with the underlying issues (I would say drugs and welfare). In Switzerland half the population owns guns, and they have one of the lowest homicide rates in the world. Something else is at play.
I agree that it is the guns andsomething else that needs to be identified. Historically homicide rates have always been high in the US - even higher before drugs and welfare…so there must be other factors at play.
 
I agree that it is the guns andsomething else that needs to be identified. Historically homicide rates have always been high in the US - even higher before drugs and welfare…so there must be other factors at play.
But why blame the guns? Guns are merely a means to an end. Violence happens with or without them. I’m more interested in ultimate causes.
 
“most violent nation in the world” covers much more than just gun weilding criminals and lunatics.

The “violent nation” status-based only on gun possession is a very narrow snapshot. We are violent in attitude; in programming; in sports; in video games in which we prepare our children for the violence ahead in their lives.

There’s violence towards women, children and the elderly…without guns!! physical, psychological and emotional violence.

Never mind abortion, euthanasia and legal violence against our religious values- prostitution; sex slavery; buying and selling of humans and human organs. Largest importer of illegal drug use and largest exporter of weapons for illegal activity. Not talking about the “accidental” export of legal weapons falling into the wrong hands “by mistake”.

The fact that we are no longer a christian nation is the greater part of who we’ve become.

Pray for America and the Americans that live in her. God bless us-Americans; and bring us back to A Christian Nation.
 
But why blame the guns? Guns are merely a means to an end. Violence happens with or without them. I’m more interested in ultimate causes.
Because gun-related murders in the US number over 11,000. And gun-related death in the US (the proportion adjusted for population) is higher than anywhere else in the western world.
 
Connecticut enough facts for you?
It what way? The kid was already prohibited from possessing handguns, both due to his age (he was under 21) and the fact that he was being treated for mental health issues.

But those with criminal intent, by defintion, have no desire to obey the law.

What would you expect a criminal to do? Do you expect them to think “Man I really want to gun down a bunch of innocent kids…too bad that using a handgun to do that would be illegal” :rolleyes:
 
Because gun-related murders in the US number over 11,000. And gun-related death in the US (the proportion adjusted for population) is higher than anywhere else in the western world.
But total violent crime is a lot lower, especially than UK. London’s total violent crime rate is almost 7 time higher than New York? How do you explain that?

Would you prefer that rapists and armed robbers just be allowed to continue, or would you object if the victim actually defends themselves to the best of their ability?
 
Because gun-related murders in the US number over 11,000. And gun-related death in the US (the proportion adjusted for population) is higher than anywhere else in the western world.
The US is middle of the road when it comes to intentional homicide rates, and Switzerland, with even more guns (and they are fully automatic) than the US has one of the lowest rates. Clearly guns are not the difference.
 
The US is middle of the road when it comes to intentional homicide rates, and Switzerland, with even more guns (and they are fully automatic) than the US has one of the lowest rates. Clearly guns are not the difference.
In addition, the areas of the United States with the hightest gun ownership rates have much lower crime rates than those with low gun ownership and restrictive gun laws.
 
But total violent crime is a lot lower, especially than UK. London’s total violent crime rate is almost 7 time higher than New York? How do you explain that?

Would you prefer that rapists and armed robbers just be allowed to continue, or would you object if the victim actually defends themselves to the best of their ability?
Not any more. We all know that US homicide rate is 5 times higher than the UK (gun deaths 40 times higher) but rape is now higher in the US 28.6 vs 27.7 per 100,000 as is vehicle theft. Robbery rates are almost the same. Assault is higher but everything in England is counted as an assault however mnor unlike the US.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18900384

People here in London don’t need to resort to firearms to protect themselves, and criminals here rarely use arms - that’s why we only had 39 gun deaths in 2011 (there are more deaths in the US every day). I would suggest that 11,000 plus gun deaths is a high price to pay - particularly since it is clear from the comments on this forum that so many Americans are so frightened (or paranoid) that they feel they need a gun to protect themslves.
 
The US is middle of the road when it comes to intentional homicide rates, and Switzerland, with even more guns (and they are fully automatic) than the US has one of the lowest rates. Clearly guns are not the difference.
Only if you compare the US to third world countries. Amoung western countries it has by far the highest homicide rate.
 
But why blame the guns? Guns are merely a means to an end. Violence happens with or without them. I’m more interested in ultimate causes.
After all, there were no wars and no killing before guns and gunpower was invented- murder was invented AFTERWARDS, so of course banning guns is reasonable, the ammendments of the constituatioin mean **** today anyway…
 
Not any more. We all know that US homicide rate is 5 times higher than the UK (gun deaths 40 times higher) but rape is now higher in the US 28.6 vs 27.7 per 100,000 as is vehicle theft. Robbery rates are almost the same. Assault is higher but everything in England is counted as an assault however mnor unlike the US.

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18900384

People here in London don’t need to resort to firearms to protect themselves, and criminals here rarely use arms - that’s why we only had 39 gun deaths in 2011 (there are more deaths in the US every day). I would suggest that 11,000 plus gun deaths is a high price to pay - particularly since it is clear from the comments on this forum that so many Americans are so frightened (or paranoid) that they feel they need a gun to protect themslves.
Why not compare a city to London, after all gun laws are different all across this country. Chicago really skews things upward for the US.
 
Explain the high US homicide rate - that was what I was talking about. Why do Americans use their guns to kill each other when no other western country seems to?
It’s not gun ownership. Switzerland has fully automatic weapons and half of the citizenry armed, with one of the lowest homicide rates in the world. Guns are not the ultimate cause.
 
It’s not gun ownership. Switzerland has fully automatic weapons and half of the citizenry armed, with one of the lowest homicide rates in the world. Guns are not the ultimate cause.
I still think Switzerland is different since they don’t have a stamding army and the arms are state issued for limited time with heavy registration and conditions and for a spefic purpose. The Swiss don’t talk about the right to bear arms. Note though they have a high suicide rate by gun (like the US)

But putting the gun issue aside, what then is the ultimate cause of so many gun murders in the US? Over 11,000 of them last year.
 
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