Could a Catholic bake a cake for a gay wedding?

[otjm]

No, I do not think at all that I have made a case for it. 5 judges with a secular bent (some of whom may buy into the mantra from Hilary a few years ago, about religion being a “private affair” ignored the conflict looming when they decided the marriage case. That does not mean that the First Amendment meant any such thing, and the distortion of the musings about “separation of Church and State” have twisted that comment far beyond any intention of the writer. There was, in the Constitution, grounds for prior decisions of protected status. There was nothing in the history of European or U.S. law to consider that marriage was anything except between a man and a woman. That is purely the progressive agenda and nothing else, and is part and parcel of removing any religious commentary from the public forum.

I would be exceedingly slow to say that a specific enumerated right, the protection of religious liberty, is of far minor importance to a non-enumerated protective category created out of whole cloth by the Court.

 

[sainteriksrose]

Hmm…

Then there are mayors who don’t care if they’re in violation of federal law. Maybe they’ll be sued big time, too.

 

[Melbourne]

In the case where the business owner may be sued for refusing to bake a cake for a gay wedding I have to ask would this be allowed to happen if the cake baker were Muslim? I’m sure not. Catholics seem to be an easy target for today’s society to aim for.

Certainly a Catholic could bake a cake for a gay wedding if they want to and it would be without sin, but legally they should have the right (based on their religious belief, just as Muslims and Jews have that legal right) to choose not to bake the cake.

 

[Rau]

In the case where the business owner may be sued for refusing to bake a cake for a gay wedding I have to ask would this be allowed to happen if the cake baker were Muslim?

The law would not distinguish. Perhaps - if relying on your apparent implication that muslim’s are all militant - the gay couple would choose a different bakery in which to promote an incident? Is that what you’re thinking?

legally they [Catholic bakers] should have the right (based on their religious belief, just as Muslims and Jews have that legal right) to choose not to bake the cake.

From where do you get the idea that the law gives Jews and Muslims different rights?

 

[Teek]

From where do you get the idea that the law gives Jews and Muslims different rights?

Because they, as well, preferentially screen customers based on religious beliefs, and they are not facing the public condemnation that Christians are.

Not the Law, but the application of the Law.

 

[Axsenex]

I don’t care about the weddings so I declined all of them so far.

 

[Melbourne]

From where do you get the idea that the law gives Jews and Muslims different rights?

It’s just how it exists here in Australia

 

[Melbourne]

Because they, as well, preferentially screen customers based on religious beliefs, and they are not facing the public condemnation that Christians are.

Not the Law, but the application of the Law.

My point exactly, thank you for the clarification Teek.

I do believe our religion should receive the same public respect as the aforementioned.

 

[SuperLuigi]

The point is it should be up the business to make that call.

It’s also the ultimate cry of personal insecurity when one needs to the force of government to make someone participate somehow in celebrating one’s personal relationships.

One does wonder if “equality” that is bleated by these activists can ever be satisfactory.

 

[MamasBoy33]

A bakery in Oregon just got hit with 135k by lesbians in court.

 

[guanophore]

The point is it should be up the business to make that call.

Well it is not anymore. Since sexual orientation has become a protected class, federal law requires that they not be refused service on the basis of it, just like a business cannot refuse service for religious affiliation or race.

The only way to avoid it, I think, would be to advertise from the beginning what the business does not offer. He said he did not make Halloween cakes, either, so he would have to specify that the business only creates cakes within certain specific parameters. And I am not even sure that would work!

 

[Axsenex]

It’s closed but then again money well spent ain’t it?

 

[Teek]

A bakery in Oregon just got hit with 135k by lesbians in court.

A Christian one.

 

[Rau]

Because they, as well, preferentially screen customers based on religious beliefs, and they are not facing the public condemnation that Christians are.

They have no legal right to any course that a Christian does not. I say again - the difference - if any - is that a gay couple is yet to take legal action against Jews or Muslims. You can raise your point again if and when you can point to a case of the authorities choosing to grant the Non-Christian bakers the greater freedom.

 

[Elf01]

I’d be interested in the result if someone asked a homosexual baker for a cake with a slogan supporting a man/woman only definition of marriage? Thiniking more of the NI case against Ashers there.

 

[Teek]

“Because they, as well, preferentially screen customers based on religious beliefs, and they are not facing the public condemnation that Christians are.”

They have no legal right to any course that a Christian does not. I say again - the difference - if any - is that a gay couple is yet to take legal action against Jews or Muslims. You can raise your point again if and when you can point to a case of the authorities choosing to grant the Non-Christian bakers the greater freedom.

My full quote, part of which was used above, with bold added for emphasis:

Because they, as well, preferentially screen customers based on religious beliefs, and they are not facing the public condemnation that Christians are.

Not the Law, but the application of the Law.

“You can raise your point again if and when you can point to a case of the authorities choosing” to take away a Non-Christian baker’s “greater freedom.”

They have only taken the freedom of Christian bakers, in court, and they upheld it by appeal.

$135K for exercising your right to religious freedom, and freedom of speech. If you are Christian.

 

[ATraveller]

The only way to avoid it, I think, would be to advertise from the beginning what the business does not offer. He said he did not make Halloween cakes, either, so he would have to specify that the business only creates cakes within certain specific parameters. And I am not even sure that would work!

It would most likely not work. If the baker, photographer or florist stated explicitly, or even implicitly, they won’t do anything connected to a gay wedding, it’s now considered discrimination that needs to be punished.

 

[Teek]

I’d be interested in the result if someone asked a homoaexual baker for a cake with a slogan supporting a man/woman only definition of marriage? Thiniking more of the NI case against Ashers there.

When I was getting married, we did some cake tasting appointments. At one, the man helping us seemed somewhat effeminate. He showed us a few things, asked which kind of cake we wanted to sample, and showed us the books. We were talking, and he said, “St. Mary’s? Is it a Catholic wedding?” We replied that it was. He said, “Oh.”

He then said he was sorry, but I only have some batter for you to sample. I will microwave it, if you really want to try it.

I couldn’t really envision what he meant, so I said thanks, we’d like that. He came back with a styrofoam plate with three puddles of batter that had been microwaved until chewy.

We thanked him and left.

He didn’t refuse our business. He didn’t say he was homosexual. It could have just been the way they ran their little bakery. Didn’t say he was anti-Catholic.

But we got the strongest sense that he was, and we didn’t want him to bake our cake anymore.

We did not take him to court. We just didn’t want to be uncomfortable or make him uncomfortable.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

Blow, ye trumpets, for Luigi and I more or less agree on something.

 

[guanophore]

If the baker, photographer or florist stated explicitly, or even implicitly, they won’t do anything connected to a gay wedding, it’s now considered discrimination that needs to be punished.

It is reminiscient of the early days of persecution by the Roman Empire, where merchants thought to be Christian were not allowed to have a booth in the marketplace.