Could a Catholic bake a cake for a gay wedding?

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They can do whatever they want as long as they don’t present themselves as a business open to the public who declines gay couples because they don’t like the idea of them being married and having sex.
 
NiceIsAsNiceDoes said:
Others say it is their conscience and they have a right to behave in accordance with it. See the issue here?
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No, actually no one says that. You’ve suggested the tasks of educating innocent children and healing disease could be compared with being compelled to cooperate with acts sincerely believed to be immoral. I think the line needs to be drawn in a different place than the one you appear to propose.
 
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NiceIsAsNiceDoes said:
I don’t believe these activists are trying to “squeeze Christians out.”
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You might not believe it or want to but the evidence shows there is intent. And let’s get this out of the way, I’m not saying all but many are malicious.
Billions of dollars are being poured into activist groups to force well-respect and established religious groups into violating their beliefs. There is even a case in Ohio where an activist said on NPR they wanted Catholic churches to host Planned Parenthood meetings.
Again, the activists promised nothing would change except the definition in civil law but they didn’t keep it. Now we’re seeing lawsuits and fines.
NiceIsAsNiceDoes said:
They just want to live in society without being discriminated against by people who don’t like that they are gay.
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If that’s the case, why do they try to mangle the Bible and try to make gay ‘marriage’ doctrine?
According to reports in some of these cases, they were long time customers who the business owners knew were gay but they only turned down accepting the customers’ business when it came to weddings. The customers were upset and then the activists showed up. So the notion of ‘not liking gays’ is a smear.
NiceIsAsNiceDoes said:
Discrimination of someone because of beliefs is never OK, in my book.
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You’ve contradicted yourself in light of your posts supporting laws compelling photographers and bakers to participate.
NiceIsAsNiceDoes said:
As long as they don’t encroach on the rights of others to do the same.
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Except for the religious according to your posts.
NiceIsAsNiceDoes said:
Or sell your business to your church and bake as a religious organization.
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Is that not marginalization right there?
NiceIsAsNiceDoes said:
There would be a huge outcry about Catholic - bashing, etc
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That’s an odd comment considering the amount of ridicule Catholics get in popular media. The only outcry I’ve seen are from Catholic organizations with little sway and maybe the odd non-Catholics. Where are the so-called ‘equality’ activists? Nowhere to be seen. They were seen when Muslims were crudely mocked by South Park but not when they mocked Christians in general. And look at how Richard Dawkins is now facing bans. He blasts all religions equally (and he’s entitled to that) but he only got into trouble with the ‘equality’ cult when he mocked Islam. The double standard is so blatant.
NiceIsAsNiceDoes said:
Is a doctor not able to treat a homosexual with an STD because it would be encouraging more sexual behavior?
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This is about cakes. The line is drawn with life and death situations.
 
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?? If they just deny customers who are gay, you would have a point. But they have a right to refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding (in other words, contribute to something against their religion)
 
I have actually listened to the Masterpiece Cakeshop case being debated in the court. It was brought up by the attorneys supporting the gay couple that a chapel that belonged to a Christian college that was against same-sex marriage would still have to perform ceremonies for gay couples despite its stance.
Here is the website of the oral debate:
https://www.oyez.org/cases/2017/16-111

It is obvious here that many prominent members of society intend to force the false doctrine of gay marriage any way they can. They intend to find loop holes and exploit them to the point that a law can be passed to force all members of society no matter what they believe to at least accept that such an immoral practice is licit.

This is exactly what happened with the abortion movement where the Constitution said that all humans have the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The pro-choice advocates thought the had found loop holes and argued that human embryos are not humans and therefore they had no right to liberty. This somehow persuaded the supreme court to allow abortion and this has been their strongest defense ever since.

However we can come to know that abortion is objectively wrong through reason and that the embryo is a human, a growing helpless human. Same with gay-marriage; it is an insult to the natural law and of what God intended marriage and human sexuality to be.

Does those on the left care, NOPE! This is their chance to eradicate the true Judaeo-Christian ideas of morality from the Western world once and for all by painting us as bigots, intolerable, and stubborn people. History proves that once you make a group of innocent everyday people look like monsters and threats to society, persecution follows. Look at the Jews during WW2 or the early Christians of the Roman Empire. They were seen as threats to the peace of society and were persecuted based on these false claims.

All of the Western world, especially America, have been influenced by the ideals of Judaeo-Christian morality, true morality that demonstrates the human person as made in the image of God. It will take time for society to eradicate these ideals because in the end these ideals are a part of our consciousness as humans, they are universal. However, they can be and have been ignored and are in the process of being replaced with moral relativism. Ever since the Enlightenment, Western thought has strayed away from theism and ideals of heaven and hell and have worshiped amorality and defining the human person as a “noble savage”.

I do believe that in our lifetime the Western world will systematically rebel against all ideas of Judaeo-Christian ethics and we must be ready to face it and tell society that you will not abandon God for whatever reason even if it costs you your life. In the end, we are meant to suffer as Christ suffered, but remember, it is for higher purpose.

“Blessed are they who suffer persecution for justice sake; for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” (Mat. 5:10)
 
I would like to recommend the book Ten Books that Screwed Up the World by Benjamin Wiker
It gives great insight to the ideals that the world has embraced and has caused so much destruction in the past century.
 
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It is wrong to approve of sinful acts. The "Catechism of the Catholic
Church" calls homosexual acts of grave depravity. “Under no circumstances can they be approved,” the Catechism says (section 2357) So I understand why the baker refused to bake a cake celebrating a lesbian wedding.
That being said, if such an act of cooperation is only remotely involved to such acts, I could see why someone would steel themselves and make such a cake and not sin. I would think it up to the person involved to decide (and decide honestly) if making a cake for a lesbian wedding would be sinful or not.

This thread by the way causes not to make a new saying, misquoting the Old Tesatament: of posts there is no end.
 
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SuperLuigi said:
People don’t have a right to cake. And discrimination happens all of the time in the public square and that is more than okay. In fact, it’s very beneficial to society on many occasions.

LadyLillian:

otjm:
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Don’t people have a right to buy what’s for sale to the public?
 
Dacinom said:
This issue is common. I know a plumber that turned down a job at a Planned Parenthood clinic for remodeling work. There are also nurses asking not to be forced to assist in abortions as a matter of conscience.
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Assisting in abortion is being an accessory to murder and baking a cake is just baking a cake. The two are very different! I’d bake the cake, but I sure wouldn’t aid in an abortion even if it meant losing my job!
 
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NiceIsAsNiceDoes said:
Discrimination is never ok. If you don’t want to bake the cake, don’t be a baker who markets himself to the general public. Or sell your business to your church and bake as a religious organization. What if a baker wouldn’t bake Catholics a cake because he finds Catholicism to be distasteful and has no problem telling you so. There would be a huge outcry about Catholic - bashing, etc. It is the same thing. It is horrible in either scenario. Where does it end? Is a doctor not able to treat a homosexual with an STD because it would be encouraging more sexual behavior? What about a teacher who doesn’t feel right teaching the child of a homosexual couple because he feels it would be approving of that situation? You see, anybody can say they oppose anything on conscientious grounds. As a society, we have to decide where the line is. That is what is happening now. A lot of testing is happening. It is a good thing.
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I agree with this. If we don’t draw a legal line, people will be opposing to ridiculous things on grounds that it violates their conscience. If I were baking cakes for the public, I would sell to anyone. If I didn’t want to sell to SS couples, adulterers, etc., I’d start a Catholic bakery and market it as such.
 
Again, you can bake a cake for anyone, but you should not be baking a cake that celebrates sin.

Eg baking a cake for a party for someone who has an abortion and they expect you to decorate the cake in a way that reflects that. They should bake cakes for anyone, but not necessarily for a gay wedding, a celebration of something that goes against their beliefs.

It’s not the act of baking the cake for a ‘sinner’, it’s the act of baking the cake to celebrate a sin.

Eg, Muslims can bake for Christians, but it is OK for them to decline to bake a Christmas/easter cake
 
What if we renamed this Topic to
" would you sell gun to person who you know is going to rob a bank?
You see its hard being a Christian as Pope Peter said as Christians we will suffer persecution for doing God’s will.
Jesus also said " i came to cause division"
Why did Jesus say that? I’ll tell you why Because people weren’t going to like the things He said, taught, or represented.
If there was no God i would sell a cake to a gay marriage but I’m with God and I can’t now bevause I’m under God’s law. Is it hard? Yes but i have to because i love them and i don’t want to give them a boost that may cause them to go to hell.
Im not saying they are going to hell, Im saying i could influence them that they Might go to hell. But that’s God’s judgment
 
If you truly love a person you would tell them “no” because its grave sin
 
NiceIsAsNiceDoes said:
They can do whatever they want as long as they don’t present themselves as a business open to the public who declines gay couples because they don’t like the idea of them being married and having sex.
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They may decline service to them on this basis if they wish.
 
That is what you think. Others think differently. That is the issue. The teacher may feel that by educating the child of a homosexual couple, he is complicit in something he believes to be sinful. While that may sound ridiculous to you, there are plenty of people in this world who would feel that way.
 
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