Could a perfect creator create a flawed universe?

[clarkgamble1]

How could a perfect all knowing God create a universe full of imperfections such as are found on just this one planet? Lets not blame this on man with his original sin or free will. Explain for example why the only way the deepest of the deep sea creatures, some of whom have never even been seen yet, can only exist by the brutal killing of their fellow deep sea dwellers. Why do army ants destroy everything in their path in their search for survival food. They have never sinned, they have no stain of original sin, they certainly have no free will. They have no knowledge of a God. Considerations like these have led me to believe that no one is in charge of this universe. Or put another way, if a universe evolved without any help of a God, it would most likely have the characteristics of this very imperfect one.

 

[Wesrock]

What does it mean to you when it is claimed that God is perfect? What does “God is perfect” mean?

 

[Vico]

How could a perfect all knowing God create a universe full of imperfections such as are found on just this one planet? …

Catechism of the Catholic Church

296 We believe that God needs no pre-existent thing or any help in order to create, nor is creation any sort of necessary emanation from the divine substance.144 God creates freely “out of nothing”:145

If God had drawn the world from pre-existent matter, what would be so extraordinary in that? A human artisan makes from a given material whatever he wants, while God shows his power by starting from nothing to make all he wants.146

300 God is infinitely greater than all his works: "You have set your glory above the heavens."156 Indeed, God’s “greatness is unsearchable”.157 But because he is the free and sovereign Creator, the first cause of all that exists, God is present to his creatures’ inmost being: "In him we live and move and have our being."158 In the words of St. Augustine, God is “higher than my highest and more inward than my innermost self”.159

302 Creation has its own goodness and proper perfection, but it did not spring forth complete from the hands of the Creator. The universe was created “in a state of journeying” (in statu viae) toward an ultimate perfection yet to be attained, to which God has destined it. We call “divine providence” the dispositions by which God guides his creation toward this perfection:

By his providence God protects and governs all things which he has made, “reaching mightily from one end of the earth to the other, and ordering all things well”. For “all are open and laid bare to his eyes”, even those things which are yet to come into existence through the free action of creatures.161

 

[Shakuhachi]

Aye “flawed” is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[ratio1]

if a universe evolved without any help of a God, it would most likely have the characteristics of this very imperfect one.

Do those ants complain the world is imperfect? What about those sea creatures? Looks like the only species that thinks this world is imperfect is humans.

 

[sonofbarry]

The killing of one sea creature by another is only brutal according to our human, delicate perspective. In nature, nothing is cruel, immoral or brutal. It just is. In that sense, it is perfect; nature is acting in perfect harmony. Indeed (in my opinion) nature, without human interference, is the most perfect creation.
If you believe the story, the natural world was here first. Humanity was an addition to the world, and a disastrous one.

 

[sonofbarry]

And don’t you love it when a responder throws a bunch of catechism at you, as if this completes the discussion?

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

What’s flawed about a food chain?
What makes an animal eating another animal imperfect?

 

[Aulef]

Disastrous?

Humanity is one of God’s greatest creatures. Saying otherwise sounds gnostic, to say the least…

 

[Prodigal_Son]

The killing of one sea creature by another is only brutal according to our human, delicate perspective. In nature, nothing is cruel, immoral or brutal. It just is .

No, I don’t think this makes sense. Animals experience pain, and at least certain forms of pain are bad in themselves.

I think the better explanation is that we would not understand what sin was unless we had it represented visually in the animal kingdom – represented as a beast that tears us apart.

 

[clarkgamble1]

And don’t you love it when a responder throws a bunch of catechism at you, as if this completes the discussion?

Throwing a bunch of memorized catechism at questions regarding the logic of the creation we observe is standard practice of people who are afraid to seriously discuss the issue presented.

 

[sonofbarry]

Well, obviously I don’t believe the story.

So, to you, the animal kingdom is a visual representation of sin – metaphorically, a beast that tears us apart.

That sounds like you are ‘off with the pixies’.

Yes, animals experience pain. Therefore, they are driven to avoid pain, death and injury in the instinctive drive to reproduce and care for their young so that they might reproduce. The animal world is driven by instinct: the constant search for food, to defend the young (up to a point) and the need to reproduce.

 

[lindamajor]

Clark, First, Our perfect God did not create the imperfections, people did. And why not blame this on man? Man WAS given free will by God and it IS his choice to sin or not sin. God did not create puppets. He created, not to control, but to let people do as they choose. They can choose to love or to destroy. Creatures are not humans. They do not have free will, nor souls. They are not morally responsible for their actions, and they will not share in eternal life. They live by instinct They were designed by God to survive and to serve man. And God designed this universe like a well oiled machine. The ONLY disruptions are by man alone.

 

[o_mlly]

Let Him finish the job before judging His work!
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[IWantGod]

How could a perfect all knowing God create a universe full of imperfections

I think this is a subjective qeustion. What exactly is a flawed universe? Is it merely what we don’t want it to be? Is there a way it ought to be?

One has to establish why one is creating a universe before one can judge whether or not it fulfills the purpose for which it was created.

If i was created merely for this life alone, and the purpose was for me to experience perfect happiness and joy in this universe, then i would agree that God has done a poor job.

 

[Shakuhachi]

Yes, “just to make it interesting.”

 

[Reuben_J]

Whether we like it or not, everyone of us in discussing this issue is not truly objective but stem from the belief we hold like your OP. Referring to the Bible or Catechism is only saying that the belief arise from those documents. Even if he does not mention them, what the person says will be very much based on their principle.

 

[po18guy]

Still thinking as man does and not as God does?

God granted us the freedom to ruin what He had created in perfection. He granted you the freedom (license?) to not believe in Him.

Freedom is a wonderful thing - if properly used.

 

[joeybaggz]

And don’t you love it when a responder throws a bunch of catechism at you, as if this completes the discussion?

Well, this is a Catholic forum, and the Catholics on it look to the foundation of their education in Catholicism. What else do you expect, someone citing, say, the Kama Sutra?

 

[joeybaggz]

How could a perfect all knowing God create a universe full of imperfections such as are found on just this one planet?

Absent man from the equation that is existence, and there is no imperfection on the planet. It is perfectly self perpetuating, self regulating, and self sustaining. Your second sentence, “let’s not blame this on man with his original sin or free will” actually, in a backward way, answers your question. Man was created to live in harmony with all existence. Something in man’s history upset that apple cart. It certainly was not a perfect all knowing God.
The problem is in questions like these, the simplistic belief in the factual nature of allegorical stories when used to support profound metaphysical/philosophical questions is a fools errand.