Could absence of gun control have saved VT victims?

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Here are figures from the NZ Ministry of Justice (showing rates between NZ and AUS)

courts.govt.nz/pubs/reports/2002/intl-comparisons-crime/section-6.html

It gives a violent crime rate in Austrailia in 2002 at 947 incidents per 100,000 persons.

US violent crime rates in the same time period were **494 **per 100,000 (FBI)

fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/offreported/02-nviolent02.html

What is really interesting is that Austrailans rape each other at at about 2 1/2 times the rate of Americans.

(81 per 100,000 vs. 33 per 100,000)

Now imagine what that rate would be if the rapists thought their victims were armed. But I suppose you expect the victim to call the Police on her cell phone during the rape instead.
Ouch, but what about the dignity of life. I thought rape was wrong. People don’t do that, do they? I think it’s time to stop living in a dream world.

Evil people can not be stopped by more laws. If innocent people don’t stand up for their own dignity and their own safety, then how can they expect to have either?

Yes, Murder is wrong, but the fifth commandment says Thou shalt not commit murder. When we kill in self defense, this is not murder as the double effect comes into play. This has always been the teaching of the Church and remains so today.
 
Here’s a bit more from the AUS government website

Homicide Assault Sexual assault Robbery Kidnapping
1996 354 114,156 14,542 16,372 478
1997 364 124,500 14,353 21,305 564
1998 332 130,903 14,336 23,801 707
1999 386 134,271 14,104 22,606 766
2000 363 138,708 15,759 23,336 695
2001 346 152,283 16,897 26,591 767
2002 365 160,118 17,977 20,989 706
2003 341 157,280 18,237 19,709 696
2004 293 156,849 18,400 16,513 768
2005 295 166,499 18,172 16,787 730
aic.gov.au/media/2005/20050427.html
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Homicides are the ONLY one that has gone down. All other violent crime has gone way up, especially sexual assault and kidnapping
 
With all due respect, the posters whom I respect most have long since abandoned this thread, as will I.

Peace,
Dante
 
When all one has to base their argument on is emotion and heresay, a dose of hard cold facts can really damage their position.
Like chidren on a playground – “I’ll pick up my marbles and go home!”😛
 
I think it has something to do with them not being able to stand being wrong. They are in the minority on this, though the majority until recently was unwilling to speak up.
 
When all one has to base their argument on is emotion and heresay, a dose of hard cold facts can really damage their position.
This coming from a person who believes cocaine is brought here as leaves:rolleyes:

Yes, you’re up on your facts
 
This coming from a person who believes cocaine is brought here as leaves:rolleyes:

Yes, you’re up on your facts
And you where brought by a stork, huh.

All I can say is provide me with a bodyguard and I will disarm. If you can protect me, then go find another battle to fight because this is one you will lose.
 
I don’t believe in stringent Gun Control. Never have, never will.
True, guns are extremely dangerous in the wrong hands.
So are knives (just ask Jeffrey Dahmer’s victims), so are hatchets, axes, well, many things are lethal. That doesn’t mean you ban them because sometimes a wacko murders people.
Law-abiding citizens have the absolute right to be armed and prepared against a violent intruder.
If we law-abiding people give up all our weapons, when we are no threat to anyone, the lawLESS people will NOT surrender theirs.
I don’t like that scenario.
 
I don’t believe in stringent Gun Control. Never have, never will.
True, guns are extremely dangerous in the wrong hands.
So are knives (just ask Jeffrey Dahmer’s victims), so are hatchets, axes, well, many things are lethal. That doesn’t mean you ban them because sometimes a wacko murders people.
Law-abiding citizens have the absolute right to be armed and prepared against a violent intruder.
If we law-abiding people give up all our weapons, when we are no threat to anyone, the lawLESS people will NOT surrender theirs.
I don’t like that scenario.
AMEN!!!
 
logic being misapplied to defend a baseless stance that it’s at least our God-given right if not our “Catholic duty” to carry a gun!!!
It’s our “Catholic duty” to defend ourselves and the innocent.

It’s our God-given constitutional right as US citizens to “bear arms”.

In New Mexico our gun laws are almost non-existant. You can buy fully automatic weapons at most gun shops. You can carry a side arm in full view.

We have very few instances of criminals killing innocent people.

It’s usually the criminals who get shot.
 
Not the same ones, surely?
It really doesn’t matter if it was the same ones. The crime continues and you guys really have no way to prevent or stop it. Ask yourself, are we really any better off? I would never visit Australia. You can’t guarantee my safety and I can’t protect myself, no way.
 
It really doesn’t matter if it was the same ones. The crime continues and you guys really have no way to prevent or stop it. Ask yourself, are we really any better off? I would never visit Australia. You can’t guarantee my safety and I can’t protect myself, no way.
Pro-gun Americans always like to pretend that Australia is more crime-ridden than America.

It’s simply not true.

I’ve never been robbed/mugged/burgled.

I live in Sydney, the largest and oldest Australian city. It’s the capital of New South Wales, our oldest and largest Australian state. Sydney has over 3,000,000 people.

For crime statistics in this state:
lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/bocsar/ll_bocsar.nsf/pages/bocsar_index

links to lawlink.nsw.gov.au/lawlink/bocsar/ll_bocsar.nsf/vwFiles/RCS06.pdf/$file/RCS06.pdf
You will find that the most violent categories of crime such as murder, manslaughter etc have fallen. And they are significantly lower than the USA. And have dropped since tighter gun laws

Significant downward trends
There was a statistically significant downward trend in the monthly numbers of recorded criminal incidents for
the following offences:
break and enter – dwelling (down by 4.1%, see Figure 5)
break and enter – non-dwelling (down by 2.4%, see Figure 5)
motor vehicle theft (down by 3.0%, see Figure 6)
steal from person (down by 6.8%, see Figure 7)
Offences where there was no upward or downward trend
There was no statistically significant upward or downward trend in the monthly numbers of recorded criminal
incidents3 for any of the following offences:
murder (number of victims; see Figure 1) (1.3 per 100,000 population) (I don’t know how you guys got your statistics!)
assault – domestic violence related (see Figure 2)
assault – non-domestic violence related (see Figure 2)
sexual assault (see Figure 3)
indecent assault, act of indecency, other sexual offences (see Figure 3)
robbery without a weapon (see Figure 4)
robbery with a firearm (see Figure 4)
robbery with a weapon not a firearm (see Figure 4)
steal from motor vehicle (see Figure 6)
steal from retail store (see Figure 7)
steal from dwelling (see Figure 7)
fraud (see Figure 8)
Significant upward trends
malicious damage to property (up by 4.3%, see Figure 9)
 
Here are figures from the NZ Ministry of Justice (showing rates between NZ and AUS)

courts.govt.nz/pubs/reports/2002/intl-comparisons-crime/section-6.html

It gives a violent crime rate in Austrailia in 2002 at 947 incidents per 100,000 persons.

US violent crime rates in the same time period were **494 **per 100,000 (FBI)

fbi.gov/ucr/cius_02/html/web/offreported/02-nviolent02.html

What is really interesting is that Austrailans rape each other at at about 2 1/2 times the rate of Americans.

(81 per 100,000 vs. 33 per 100,000)

Now imagine what that rate would be if the rapists thought their victims were armed. But I suppose you expect the victim to call the Police on her cell phone during the rape instead.
Your own site about Australian crime doesn’t mention rape, but sexual assault. Rape is a type of sexual assault. It’s not all forms of sexual assault, so your figures are rubbery because you’re comapring a USA figure (one type of sexual assualt) with an Australian figure (all types of sexual assualt) and of course you get less from the USA category.

Well done!

Sexual Assault includes evrything from ‘copping a feel’ of a woman up onwards.
 
Further to Brendan’s comparison of apples to oranges, I’d like to show our legal definition of sexual assault.

Sexual assault: A *general expression *referring to any offence of a sexual nature committed upon another person. Depending upon the particular jurisdiction sexual assault offences include rape, sexual intercourse without consent, indecent assault, and acts of indecency

Butterworth’s Concise Australian Legal Dictionary, (2nd Edition), (1998), p398
(emphasis mine)
 
I won’t disagree with you. I think if people had concealed hand guns at the school, the situation would have a good chance of neutralizing quicker. I think my proposed idea would be better with a lower chance of innocent people being wounded or killed, I doubt though that it’d ever be implemented though.
This is not a matter of policy or gun control laws. A man whether he be confused, astray, for whatever reasons unknown or explicable to us did a horrible, evil thing. The focus of contemplation here should not be i believe what words say on a piece of paper somewhere but rather where do such monsters crawl forth from and what can we do to help save such lost souls. Guns friends are just new expediant means to the ancient end which is death. Do anyone of you seriously believe that mass murders will be eradicated because criminals will be shot down by a wall of righteous bullets? for my part I will do the best i can to become a better person everyday and to love and respect everyone who i share this world with. If the whole world made a friend of two enemies then there would be no Virginia Tech shootings.
just my opinion,
peace to your souls,
Brick
 
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