Could America be Babylon the Great?

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DaMaMaXiMuS

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Greetings all,

In the church I used to belong to prior to coming home this past summer, thought that Babylon the Great was America. They used all the popular scriptures from Revelations about Babylon, only they attributed them to America. As well some scriptures in Jeremiah that seemed to correlate with those in revelation.

Now I realize I’m not elaborating on exactly how they attributed America to fulfilling those scripture, but it be to long for me to write out in one shot.

I’m not saying this right, cuz I really don’t know what those scriptures are speaking about nor what time period. But at the time it used to make, then again alot of things used to make sense that turned out to be complete NONsense. lol.

Peace unto you and God Bless you all,

Nelson
 
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DaMaMaXiMuS:
Greetings all,

In the church I used to belong to prior to coming home this past summer, thought that Babylon the Great was America. They used all the popular scriptures from Revelations about Babylon, only they attributed them to America. As well some scriptures in Jeremiah that seemed to correlate with those in revelation.

Now I realize I’m not elaborating on exactly how they attributed America to fulfilling those scripture, but it be to long for me to write out in one shot.

I’m not saying this right, cuz I really don’t know what those scriptures are speaking about nor what time period. But at the time it used to make, then again alot of things used to make sense that turned out to be complete NONsense. lol.

Peace unto you and God Bless you all,

Nelson
Click to expand...
Could you give us a few verses and how they were used?
 
Personally I think that end-times prophecies, the rapture, and all that stuff shouldn’t be bothered with. How will it help anyone?
 
Greetings, Nelson! While we could say that modern America has many of the decadent characteristics of Babylon in Revelation, it goes too far to say that America is Babylon in Revelation. There’s a big difference between using Babylon as a metaphor and as a simile, don’t you agree? 🙂

And Aaron, I’m with you about End Time prophecies, et al. They are a big waste of time and effort since we cannot know the day of Christ’s return, but only keep ourselves ready for it or for our own deaths, whichever might come first.
 
I disagree about the importance of end-time prophecy. I believe there are other messages that are more important in the Bible, but the end-time prophecies can help us to avoid some of the pitfalls that are likely to arise.

For example, the end-times prophecies tell us that the world will get much worse then this, and that we must persevere. Without this understanding, many might lose hope/faith. Also, many Christians are wary of things that could turn into the mark of the beast. Those include the implantable chips, RFIDs, etc. I don’t think it is healthy to become paranoid about everything, but certainly having a basic understanding of these prophecies will give us a “heads-up.”

Furthermore, the Bible tells us that people will begin to understand these prophecies more and more as the end comes, and that our children will regain the gift of prophecy. If we understand these prophecies, in truth, then we can fully protect ourselves.

As far as America goes, I am currently under the impression that we are the tribe of Ephraim, and that the UK is Manasseh.
 
Nelson, the Book of Revelation describes with much symbolism the events of the first century. Here are some plausible explanations provided by Catholic scholars:
  • Babylon was the code word for Rome, “the city on seven hills” from which the persecution of Christians and the destruction of Jeruselem were directed.
  • The Whore of Babylon was apostate Jeruselem that rejected Christ during the first post-Resurrection generation of Jews.
  • The New Jeruselem is the Church.
  • The Millenium is the age of the Church, namely the period between Pentecost and the 2nd Coming of Christ.
  • The Beast marked by 666 is Emperor Nero who persecuted the Christians and executed St. Peter in 64 A.D.
  • The seven-year Tribulation is the period between 63 and 70 A.D. when Rome beseiged Israel.
  • The northern armies were the Roman legions, and Armogedon was the destruction of the Temple along with the rest of Jeruselem.
The only prophetic events found in Revelations we can look ahead to now are the 2nd Coming at the end of the “Millenium,” the “Rapture” in which the dead shall rise and believers will be “caught up in the sky” with Christ, the final conquest of Satan as he and his demons are vanquished into the Lake of Fire, and the ushering of the perfected World Without End. Anything before that has already happened.

These intepretations are not difinitive, but are widely held by Church theologians given their compatability with already-established Church teachings.

As you can see, the United States, not having been around in the first century could not possibly be the Great Babylon. However, we can hope that the Unites States as we know it will still be around for the 2nd Coming.

For further reading, I suggest you purchase “Will Catholics be Left Behind” offered by Catholic Answers on its online catalog here.

Mike
 
"dkward2

As far as America goes, I am currently under the impression that we are the tribe of Ephraim, and that the UK is Manasseh."

I’m familiar with that teaching, it’s from the Key of David religious group I believe. If indeed that is where you divulge your impression regarding America and the UK. I don’t know maybe you’ve gotten that interpretation on your own. If so, then my mistake, sorry.

I read several of the Key of David books which they publish because they at the time drew my interest. But in the end I saw they were not for me, they reminded me too much of what I formerly followed.

But I remember they believe things like:
  • The E.U. is the dragon with 7 heads and 10 horns that will rise under the military leadership of a revived Nazi Germany. Of the which, it will have the Roman Catholic chruch as their spiritual leader. Forming, according to them, the resurrection of the Holy Roman Empire.
  • They also believed that their founder, Herbert W. Armstrong was the prophet Elijah coming back to turn the people’s hearts back to the father’s, etc.
This is just a tidbit of the things they teach. Thank the Lord the Holy Spirit steered me clear from that.

Nelson
 
I think I know a little bit about what you are talking about. although, the priecher I heard talk about something similar calles america the new jerusalem. and he says “the new jerl USA lem.” which is a HUGE streach. but he believes that America was founded for God’s people (christians) and that the devil is trying to take it over. he said something about the statue of liberty though. how her crown is pointed and he said that’s what the queen of babylon’s crown looked like. I think he thinks the anti christ will trun america into babylon. or something like that. mind you, I don’t agree with this sentament (well, not all of it, but I see his point in some of the “Devil taking over a once christian nation” thing)

was this statue of liberty thing one of the things your church used to mention?
 
Intepreting Revelation can be tricky; it really depends on one’s POV. One will notice a myriad of interpretations on who Babylon is, who the beast is, who the number 666 alludes to; there is no consensus on these things. So, could America be Babylon the Great? Could be, or could be not. It really would depend on what your POV is.
 
I arrived at the Ephraim conclusion after reading a few pieces on the internet and going back to the Bible. It seems like an acceptable interpretation. I am unfamiliar with the Key of David or the significance of the Statue of Liberty. My apologies.

I think there is a strong case that Jesus was talking about things that would happen within the generation he was talking to. “this generation shall not pass…” etc etc.

trustmc:
Please explain further about the millennium being the age of the Church. When did it start? When did/does it end? Also, could you list the scriptures which speak about the 1000-year reign of Christ?

I ask because I’m confused. If the 1000-year reign of Christ is already taking place, why is there still death? I was under the impression that it ended. Thanks for the help.
 
actually “generation” sometimes is refering to a race. I don’t have a Bible concordance on me, but if you go to www.blueletterbible.org (it’s the KJV, but it’s still a good way to look up scriptures) anyway, there is a strongs concordance on there and “generation” in the passage you are refering to means “race” so Jesus is actually saying that “this race shall not pass” meaning that they will never die out of existance.
 
Although those Revelation things happened already, our priest was saying they could be types of what could come again with the anti-christ’s reign on Earth.
 
I would recommend a great book on that topic:

“Rapture, The End Times Error That Leaves the Bible Behind” by David B. Currie

catholiccompany.com/product_detail.cfm?ID=3447

He presents some very compelling arguments (some mentioned above) concerning the tribulation being attributable to the 63-70 a.d. period of war in Jerusalem, etc…very interesting read for anyone interested in de-coding St. John’s vision of the Apocolypse. It’s certainly not an “easy read”, but well worth the time and effort.
 
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DaMaMaXiMuS:
Greetings all,

In the church I used to belong to prior to coming home this past summer, thought that Babylon the Great was America. They used all the popular scriptures from Revelations about Babylon, only they attributed them to America. As well some scriptures in Jeremiah that seemed to correlate with those in revelation.

Now I realize I’m not elaborating on exactly how they attributed America to fulfilling those scripture, but it be to long for me to write out in one shot.

I’m not saying this right, cuz I really don’t know what those scriptures are speaking about nor what time period. But at the time it used to make, then again alot of things used to make sense that turned out to be complete NONsense. lol.

Peace unto you and God Bless you all,

Nelson
Click to expand...

Short answer - No.​

The USA certainly has some of the qualities of BtG, as had the Papacy: that doesn’t mean that either is the BtG of the book. It means that powers have similar temptations. But the Revelation was a first-century text for first-century Christians - so telling them about the USA would be meaningless. The book is not a scheme of history written down before it happened; it’s an apocalypse, which is why it is called “the Apocalypse”.

Try this catholic-resources.org/Bible/Revelation.htm
 
We are promised whenever we read Revelation that we would be blessed…

Revelation is very important…so long as we read it understanding that we will not understand everything…that it is symbolic/apocylyptic literature…

However, we get our best descriptios of Heaven from Revelation, not to mention…when Jesus came the first time…it was as a Humble child…in Revelation we see Christ as He is, in His Glory…as the Lord of Lords and King of Kings…Revelation is great, but it is important to be careful about how you interpret things…
 
Nelson, et al,

I do not believe the United States of America, or any modern day government is specifically referred to (by coded name or numbers or whatever) in ALL of Sacred Scripture.

Here’s why.

The writings are products of their times, and as such, reflect the events, beliefs and hopes of those times. However, because Sacred Scripture is the inspired Word of God, eternal truths are contained within which transcend the times or culture of their origination. For example, we still understand “Love thy neighbor as thyself.”* (Do we apply this is another question! )* I am not denying this.

The Book of Revelation is bound by it’s time. All the symbolic or allegorical references to earthly temporal entities, governments for example, are references to earthly temporal realities of the times when the Book of Revelation was composed.

There are no specific references to the USA, USSR, United Kingdom, etc. And further, I believe that forwarding modern day governments or events as keys to interpreting and explaining the meaning of the symbolism in the Book of Revelation is egotistical.(The egotism charge is levied against ‘preachers’ not you, you’re just discussing things like everyone else on the forum.)

Dr. Scott Hahn has a tape series on the Book of Revelation which illustrates the Old Testament “keys” to the book’s symbolism. I highly recommend it.

Hope everyone found something to be thankful for today.

Peter Kleine
 
Please keep in mind that over the centuries, but especially in the last 150 years or so, people have been making the mistake of trying to match up the words of Revelation and other prophetic books with their own times. They have all been wrong.

I know it is fun and all to try to treat Sacred Scripture like a code book to be broken, but it is rather childish and a misuse of Scripture. It is also the height of arrogance and hubris to think that these writings were meaningless, unintelligable and hidden from 2000 years of Christians and that their ultimate message is really only for us in 2005 in the USA.

Prophecy is for all times and all time and for all Christians. The Book of Revelation in particular was written to give hope to a 1st century Church undergoing persecution to encourage them and let them know that God will win in the end. It is only the last two chapters that are explicitly about the Second Coming and God’s ultimate triumph over evil. Catholics especially should not get caught up in the fundamentalist “Left Behind” errors of trying to “read the signs of the times.” As we are encouraged to see during this upcoming advent season, we are ALWAYS to be prepared.

I second the previous poster’s recommendation of David Curie’s book, as well as the Navarre Bible Commentary on the Book of Revelation. Also, visit this site by Carl Olsen, author of “Will Catholics Be Left Behind?” It has everything you need to know about the errors of misreading prophecy.

carl-olson.com/rapture_articles.html
 
I admit that that much of Revelation has already happened; however, I do not agree that it must be confined to it’s time. The Books of Daniel and Isaiah provide clear evidence that coded prophecy often transcends the time it is written in.
 
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DaMaMaXiMuS:
Greetings all,

In the church I used to belong to prior to coming home this past summer, thought that Babylon the Great was America. They used all the popular scriptures from Revelations about Babylon, only they attributed them to America. As well some scriptures in Jeremiah that seemed to correlate with those in revelation.

Now I realize I’m not elaborating on exactly how they attributed America to fulfilling those scripture, but it be to long for me to write out in one shot.

I’m not saying this right, cuz I really don’t know what those scriptures are speaking about nor what time period. But at the time it used to make, then again alot of things used to make sense that turned out to be complete NONsense. lol.

Peace unto you and God Bless you all,

Nelson
Click to expand...
The Democrat party thinks we are…http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif
 
America is not Babylon. Probably Rome was meant. You will recall that Revelation was written by Jewish Christians after the destruction of the temple by Rome about 70 AD. It was Rome that the Jews were suffering under at the end of the first century BCE. A page of history here is worth a lot. The wealth of Rome was built on agriculture; the Jews, if you recall from the Old Testament, held land by tribes communally with their years of Jubilee and associated laws. The cultures were entirely different, the Romans were brutal and grasping and the Jews suffered greatly.

Rome persecuted Christians for a long time until things turned around and the Emperor Constantine adopted the Church.
 
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