Could Catholics accept "sci-fi possibilities"?

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Keyeotee

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I’m going to assume the resounding answer for this is “No”. But, I’m still terribly interested about it.

Has there been any kind of official saying on things of the future of which Catholics would allow and accept? If anyone is aware, my first question stems from the video game Deus Ex: Human Revolution in which Adam Jensen is a man completely “augmented”. His arms, legs and most everything else is quite robotic and far exceeds human capabilities. So, my first question is… If that type of science became available, would Catholics be able to participate in it? Or is that considered maiming yourself (as it explicitly tells us not to do in the Catechism)?

Then another big science question of mine pertains to Artificial Intelligence. Of course we already have a few dominant ones like Siri out there right now, but I’m thinking of the Ray Kurzweil (who I’m sure has a very cynical look on religion, for a man who aims for immortality through a vitamin regimen…) theory, technological singularity. Would Catholics allow full integration of AI to walk through the earth at some point?
 
No, and artificial intelligence/artificial life is impossible, in the true or “strong” sense (as in a “conscious machine”) as has been known since von Neumann’s work on the incompleteness theorem. The collapse of the wavefunction when observed in quantum mechanics backs this up, that consciousness (“strong” AI) is not reducible to matter; only if it were reducible to matter could “true” (what is called “strong”) AI be possible. “Weak” AI - such as a chess computer (based on maths and especially combinatorics), or a computer with natural language processing, that can imitate some human functions to a degree - is completely possible, probable, and to a degree extant.

However, I still love science fiction. Gene Wolfe is one of my favourite authors, and his Book of the New Sun is one of my favourite books of fiction.
 
I can’t speak for AI but cybernetic augmentation is essentially just another form of the kind of physical augmentation we have today. As usual, the morality behind it would be not from the technology itself but for what intentions you have for it on a case by case basis. We already have medicines and prosthetic limbs to improve the human body and those aren’t sinful. The next step to that just doesn’t seem as likely.
 
Khalid said:
No, and artificial intelligence/artificial life is impossible, in the true or “strong” sense (as in a “conscious machine”) as has been known since von Neumann’s work on the incompleteness theorem. The collapse of the wavefunction when observed in quantum mechanics backs this up, that consciousness (“strong” AI) is not reducible to matter; only if it were reducible to matter could “true” (what is called “strong”) AI be possible. “Weak” AI - such as a chess computer (based on maths and especially combinatorics), or a computer with natural language processing, that can imitate some human functions to a degree - is completely possible, probable, and to a degree extant.

However, I still love science fiction. Gene Wolfe is one of my favourite authors, and his Book of the New Sun is one of my favourite books of fiction.
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You killjoy.😛 Now I’m going to automatically think of your post every time I read a scifi book with “strong” AIs.

As payback I present you with- youtube.com/watch?v=xz6OGVCdov8

(Post made in in jest, link is to a kid’s song that gets easily stuck in your head)
 
Moral issues would arise with some other things - a partial list would include:
  • Human cloning
  • Human genetic engineering
  • Animal or plant genetic engineering - maybe
  • Hybridization of humans with animals or plants (shudder)
  • Nanotechnology that could be weaponized, or get out of control and become self-replicating
I’m sure others can add more items to this list.
 
3DOCTORS said:
Hybridization of humans with animals or plants (shudder)
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Color me crazy but I really don’t understand what negative moral implications this has if the results are successful. We’ve utilized the genetic material of animals and plants plenty times already. 🤷

Heck, I wouldn’t mind having a cobra’s lethal precision… complete with snake eyes! 😛
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
Color me crazy but I really don’t understand what negative moral implications this has if the results are successful. We’ve utilized the genetic material of animals and plants plenty times already. 🤷

Heck, I wouldn’t mind having a cobra’s lethal precision… complete with snake eyes! 😛
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The intent and purpose of such an action would dictate the morality of it. Cosmetic (“I want scales”) vs. medical (Starfish regrowth) or practical application (the green stuff in plants so we can use sunlight to get fed).
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
Color me crazy but I really don’t understand what negative moral implications this has if the results are successful. We’ve utilized the genetic material of animals and plants plenty times already. 🤷

Heck, I wouldn’t mind having a cobra’s lethal precision… complete with snake eyes! 😛
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I know there are legitimate uses and years ago before they came up with cloned human insulin, my mother and many other diabetics used pork insulin. And there are medical products made from animal parts. But true genetically-engineered human-animal chimeras definitely raise some serious ethical dilemmas. :ehh:
 
3DOCTORS said:
I know there are legitimate uses and years ago before they came up with cloned human insulin, my mother and many other diabetics used pork insulin. And there are medical products made from animal parts. But true genetically-engineered human-animal chimeras definitely raise some serious ethical dilemmas. :ehh:
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I don’t know. Is it really so bad when the resulting hybrid is just a human being with animal powers? 🤷
 
Are you thinking of becoming a cyborg or bionic? Those things might come to pass in the future who know stranger things have happened. I’m sure the people of past centuries would not have understood the concept of actually walking on the moon or sending probes into space. Advances in medicine or technology are amazing so who really knows what will happen but GOD. I’m sure if we get too close to something resembling a tower of babble he’ll just knock it down again. My personal opinion though is that God gave us the universe so we would always have a challenge to drive us forward and keep us innovating. We’ve mapped and explored the Earth maybe we are just on to the next chapter the universe which we have barely touched on. It also gives us something to dream about.
 
Keyeotee said:
I’m going to assume the resounding answer for this is “No”. But, I’m still terribly interested about it.

Has there been any kind of official saying on things of the future of which Catholics would allow and accept? If anyone is aware, my first question stems from the video game Deus Ex: Human Revolution in which Adam Jensen is a man completely “augmented”. His arms, legs and most everything else is quite robotic and far exceeds human capabilities. So, my first question is… If that type of science became available, would Catholics be able to participate in it? Or is that considered maiming yourself (as it explicitly tells us not to do in the Catechism)?

Then another big science question of mine pertains to Artificial Intelligence. Of course we already have a few dominant ones like Siri out there right now, but I’m thinking of the Ray Kurzweil (who I’m sure has a very cynical look on religion, for a man who aims for immortality through a vitamin regimen…) theory, technological singularity. Would Catholics allow full integration of AI to walk through the earth at some point?
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The idea of human augmentation is an old one. As an SF writer and reader of popular and technical books on the subject, it is not possible to add advanced robotic augmentation to the human body. The latest prosthetics allow direction by human thought (not yet on the market) and the direct-connect type, one using using wires and the other, fiber optics to connect to the appropriate nerve endings.

The natural limits of human bone and muscle would require a RoboCop type elimination of natural limbs. This would be intentional maiming and would be primarily limited to military volunteers, with limited, downgraded versions available for those missing limbs.

Ray Kurzweil has a tunnel vision view of his Singularity concept. If taking lots of vitamins were proven to extend anyone’s lifespan then some of us would be giving it a try. The human mind is far more complex than any computer we know of, though progress is being made on a functional understanding level. We don’t yet know if any type of interface with an artificial intelligence is possible or if it would be possible to automatically increase our intelligence by interfacing with a computer. Though experiments are ongoing, Mr. Kurzweil thinks too mathematically, and primarily in one direction.

The end goal must be carefully considered along with all options. I think experimental exoskeletons are the best answer. And though we may come up with a computer that can think like a human and extrapolate data to solve problems, it would be very expensive, tightly controlled as to who can have access to one, and have a filter system built in for external monitoring, especially by the military.

We cannot maim our bodies but we can add assistive technologies to amplify or augment our current physical weaknesses. This would be good in those cases where a wheelchair or cane could be eliminated by an external brace/exoskeleton interfaced with the nervous system or thought controlled.

For Catholics, intentional maiming is bad, intentional augmentation for legitimate medical problems is generally good.

Robotic bodies that already exist would be one choice for a full Artificial Intelligence. However, the most efficient use for such robotic AIs would be combat. An isolated AI that could learn and extrapolate would be useful and could be used to speed drug development and solve other, complex technical problems or improve existing devices.

Other possible scenarios would be creating a living superhuman, which, at present, does not appear desirable or practical or moral. Such beings would be used as slaves, in effect. Perhaps without even realizing it. They would automatically be a separate race surrounded by beings inferior to themselves.

It is obvious Mr. Kurzweil has not thought this through.

Peace,
Ed
 
Though it has been in abeyance for almost 20 years, SM Stirling’s Draka series explored some of the issues of both genetic manipulation and cybernetic augmentation on human personality.

SPOILER ALERT!!!

Short run-down on the series: Alternate history: Divergent event, Major Patrick Ferguson survives the American Revolution but US gets Canada; Loyalists instead go to recently conquered Cape Colony South Africa, led by Governor Ferguson: create slavery-based society with warrior-elite rulers increasingly like the best and worst aspects of Sparta and Rome, declare Independence from British Empire post “Great War” (WWI) as **Domination of the Draka. **By the end of Eurasian war (WWII) the Domination rules almost all of eurasia (except India and British Isles) opposed by the rest of the world under a free world Alliance for Democracy. A cold war far more intense than the US/USSR one results with no possibility of peaceful coexistence, an accelerated arms and science race results well in advance of our world’s developments; the Alliance concentrates on computer science and the Domination on genetic engineering–including the creation of the Domination’s sucessor genetic supermen (think Star Trek “augments”). In 1999 the Domination barely wins a nuclear-biological war but a remnant of the Alliance escapes the solar system in the first (sub-light) starship to found a colony at the Alpha Centauri system. Over four hundred years later, Alliance “cyber-commandos” and upgraded Domination “new breed” fight on newly discovered colny worlds and then on a 1990’s past time Earth, much like ours, from a failed Faster-than-light drive expiriment that turned into a alternate-world travel device.

Books:

Marching Through Georgia (That’s Soviet Georgia!)
Under the Yoke
The Stone Dogs
*The Domination (*1-volume compilation of above above)
Drakon (the Draka and cybercommando in our world)
*Drakas *(short works by other authors inspired by above)
 
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