Could God punish our nation for its declining morality?

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Hey everyone. As you all know, our nation’s morality has been drastically declining in the past several years. Acceptance of “gay marriage” is increasing quite steadily and it would seem that possibly the tide is turning in regards to abortion. It seemed before that the pro-life side was winning by and large but then with that thing in Texas, I am wondering whether or not we are still winning. I am worried that the tide might be turning in the pro-abortion side’s favor. There are also a ton of other moral issues on which our nation’s morality seems to be opposed to or going is becoming opposed to true morality as taught by the Catholic Church.

Because of these things, I have to wonder if God is angry with us or saddened with us or both. Do you think He is angry or saddened with us? If so, do you think He will punish our nation?
 
I don’t know if “punish” is the right word, He might not punish us but I do have to wonder about any protection the US has had in the past and what would happen to that protection with the moral decline. Like the way public schools were before prayer was removed verses how public schools are today with all reference to God and Christianity removed. The worst thing in schools in the past was chewing gum and going to the principle’s office. Today there are medal detectors and security guards in schools, and school shootings etc. There might not be any punishment from God but moral decline that we were protected from might begin to surface worse and worse. 🤷
 
God removed the promised land from Israel. We are not exempt. Our punishment has not even started yet. We are still the favorite country for world immigrants, but other countries are rapidly catching up.

Our currency is falling flat in value, and inflation is crippling households. Our products now have less expensive competition. Our education system is sliding into mediocrity. Our technology is being outpaced by other industrial nations. Our military is no longer feared around the world.

The only thing our nation has left is our medical system which, beginning next year, will be just as awful as everyone else.

A second Great Depression is coming. It’s going to be tragic.
 
When one asks “Could God” do something…the answer must always be yes. After all - he IS God.

When we ask is God angry or sad or whatever…we are beginning to place onto God certain human characteristics that may or may not truly apply.
Of course it’s natural that we do this since it is the only way we can understand that which may not be understandable by our limited human intellects.

That said…I would lean more towards God being saddened by what he sees in the US rather than angry. As for punishing us…No I don’t think He will. That is much more an OT view. Instead He will simply allow us to suffer the consequences of our own folly.
In this way, while all will suffer to some extent, this will prevent those who truly love Him from suffering in hopelessness.

Peace
James
 
God does not need to punish us for declining morals. A decline in a society’s morals carries its own consequences in the form of cultural decay and civilizational decline. That’s been happening for some time now and will likely speed up as he decline in public and private morality becomes more blatant.

A number of books have been written about the decline of the West. But as to the results specifically of the sexual revolution, I would point to Mary Eberstadt’s “Adam and Eve After the Pill.” The results are shockingly bad, yet the culture thinks all is good. It’s like a daycare center where the children are put in charge and everyone comments about how liberated we all are.
 
I completely disagree that our morality is declining.

Now, same sex marriage is legal.

50 years ago we made black people sit on the backs of buses and use their own bathrooms.

150 years ago slavery was legal.

I think the problem is many Catholics get “sexual morality” confused with “morality”. Our sexual morality may be going down, but we are advancing in many other forms of morality. I think God would have been much more disappointed in slavery than in same sex marriage.
 
Kevin_B said:
I completely disagree that our morality is declining.

Now, same sex marriage is legal.

50 years ago we made black people sit on the backs of buses and use their own bathrooms.

150 years ago slavery was legal.

I think the problem is many Catholics get “sexual morality” confused with “morality”. Our sexual morality may be going down, but we are advancing in many other forms of morality. I think God would have been much more disappointed in slavery than in same sex marriage.
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These are good points.

Another thing to consider this that “morality” is a very individual thing…In ancient times God may have chosen to destroy an entire city or “nation” for being immoral…but in the New Covenant things are handled on a much more individual level.

Peace
James
 
Holly3278 said:
Hey everyone. As you all know, our nation’s morality has been drastically declining in the past several years. Acceptance of “gay marriage” is increasing quite steadily and it would seem that possibly the tide is turning in regards to abortion. It seemed before that the pro-life side was winning by and large but then with that thing in Texas, I am wondering whether or not we are still winning. I am worried that the tide might be turning in the pro-abortion side’s favor. There are also a ton of other moral issues on which our nation’s morality seems to be opposed to or going is becoming opposed to true morality as taught by the Catholic Church.

Because of these things, I have to wonder if God is angry with us or saddened with us or both. Do you think He is angry or saddened with us? If so, do you think He will punish our nation?
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We are punishing ourselves, through our own greed. Within a decade or so, nearly every species of fish in the oceans will be considered to be “at risk”. We are acidifying the ocean. We are ruining our atmosphere. We are already seeing significant glacial and snow cap (watershed) loss. Weather patterns are changing. Unfortunately, even if we had the will to stop the behavior tomorrow, things will continue to worsen for centuries, and would take thousands of years to return to normal, barring some new technological solution.

I tend to be an optimist. But in this area, I am very discouraged by the potential outcomes, and the lack of action being taken.

God can just sit back and watch. There is no need for him to punish us in our lifetimes.
 
Kevin_B said:
I completely disagree that our morality is declining.

Now, same sex marriage is legal.

50 years ago we made black people sit on the backs of buses and use their own bathrooms.

150 years ago slavery was legal.

I think the problem is many Catholics get “sexual morality” confused with “morality”. Our sexual morality may be going down, but we are advancing in many other forms of morality. I think God would have been much more disappointed in slavery than in same sex marriage.
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So… sexual morality is declining but everything else is getting better?

Since 1973 over 50 million unborn children have been killed—an entire generation, missing. Since the sexual revolution, contraception has de-linked marriage from children, making things worse for children. Divorce and cohabitation have the same effect—making adults happy at the expense of children. Widespread fornication means that we do not even notice the link between sex and procreation, and abortion is an easy out. Fifty percent of marriages end in divorce. Children are the losers.

Sure, it’s only sexual immorality. Has it made things better? Has it made things better for children with no fathers, children who are shuffled from parent to parent, children in foster care, children who are killed in the womb?

Now, same sex marriage will destroy even the most basic aspect of marriage, that of sexual complementarity. Family depends on marriage. Can a society exist without marriage? Can it exist without families?
 
Sorry for the confusion. I meant “only” as in “the only one” not as in “not as important”. It is true that sexual immorality, especially abortion, has many negative effects on society. But ido not think we are less moral then we were before. We are less moral in some areas but more moral in others. What I was trying to say was that, in my opinion, people who claim we are less moral now are solely taking sexual morality into account.

You also have to remember that, even when abortion was illegal, it was still going on. Also, premarital sex was still going on even when it was still taboo. I’m sure they’re both more common now, but older generations were still doing immoral things, they were just quieter about it, and they never got smited. (Smote? Smitten?)

Considering the poor state civil marriage has been in for decades, I really don’t see same sex marriage making any sort of an impact.

I also agree that God probably isn’t in the habit of destroying large groups of people anymore. The fact that Nazi germany didn’t go out in a storm of brimstone should prove that.

Climate change is a tricky one. We are using more fossil fuels now, which is ruining our environment, but we are also trying harder to fix the problem than we were before. But then again, we didn’t know how much of a problem it was until recently. That does give previous generations a little bit of an excuse, but you would think once they saw all the pollution it caused they would have figured it was bad. So I can’t say one way or the other.
 
Holly3278 said:
Hey everyone. As you all know, our nation’s morality has been drastically declining in the past several years. Acceptance of “gay marriage” is increasing quite steadily and it would seem that possibly the tide is turning in regards to abortion. It seemed before that the pro-life side was winning by and large but then with that thing in Texas, I am wondering whether or not we are still winning. I am worried that the tide might be turning in the pro-abortion side’s favor. There are also a ton of other moral issues on which our nation’s morality seems to be opposed to or going is becoming opposed to true morality as taught by the Catholic Church.

Because of these things, I have to wonder if God is angry with us or saddened with us or both. Do you think He is angry or saddened with us? If so, do you think He will punish our nation?
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I could cherry pick examples and match them one for one against yours to show the country’s morality is not declining and this whole “golden age” view of morality depends almost entirely on your (collective you) point of view.

God’s always probably been generally disappointed over His creatures. there have been places and times magnitudes worse than this that were not punished, so its kind of myopic to think He’s about to start on us now.
 
When it comes to evidences of cultural decay, there seems to be a widespread will to disbelieve. Everything is fine! But I think that the evidence in Mary Eberstadt’s book provides plenty of reasons to think otherwise.
 
JimG said:
When it comes to evidences of cultural decay, there seems to be a widespread will to disbelieve. Everything is fine! But I think that the evidence in Mary Eberstadt’s book provides plenty of reasons to think otherwise.
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“everything is fine” is a strawman.

I think things have been more or less rotten all along with a slight trend towards less rotten.

I’ll match the current moral panic du jour (gays infiltrating the boy scouts) with … where should I start? let’s cherrypick, one for one.

what would a east european Jew, circa 1940, think about western cultural decay?

ProTip: she wouldn’t be saying something like, “they might be shoveling us into ovens but at least Scouting Poland isn’t overun with gays”.
 
Some prominent Catholic recently said something to the effect of: “we’re not going to hell…this already is hell”

Living among people who readily kill their own off spring and make us pay for it…is hell.

Living among people who walk away from their major commitments with young children at sake…is hell.

Etc.

But fear not. God is ready to turn all this around if we are willing to love with Him all of those He places near us.
 
Edward_H said:
…Living among people who walk away from their major commitments with young children at sake…is hell.
…
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you’ve got a myopic view of hell then. divorce would be a small worry for a black guy getting lynched by the klan in the 1950s.
 
Fairwinds said:
you’ve got a myopic view of hell then. divorce would be a small worry for a black guy getting lynched by the klan in the 1950s.
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Interesting how you so quickly throw out the race card and then run to hide behind it, leaving off your post my point about abortion.

It’s what you don’t confront…what you tactically ignore…that turns into hell.

And what of the children who live with the effects of divorce?

How many aborted…how many children of divorce are there in comparison to those actually lynched?

I realize you think using lynchings will somehow give you PC credits…but you’re wrong.
 
Especially now.Israel had no choice of her king yet God punished/blessed the nation according to the behavior of her king.How the king served God and His commandments determined the blessing or punishment that would eventually befall the nation.We have in America an Obamanation in the White House.This evil creature who was elected by many Catholics who knew fully of his stance on critical moral and ethical issues was the man the nation chose to place before the Throne of God and declare ,“This is our elected man to stand before you on our behalf.Judge us as You would Him ,our elected King!” What is God supposed to do?Tolerate an usurper of his Divine authority who advocates same sex marriage,abortion on demand,the promotion of the homosexual lifestyle,contraception on demand,all which offend the natural order or Divine Law!Add to this the deceptive tactics used by the false witness of oath taking in swearing to uphold the Constitution and yet do every thing possible to abuse,hinder or redefine it .That Creature in the White House is brazenly ,willfully ,ostentatiously drunk in noon day delight at having caused such turmoil in his own country.I have never ever heard or read of a King or President that spoke of love for his country yet was so determined to wreck it by seeding so much contentious quarrel into his people by taking positions and promoting programs that are divisive and tear the nation apart.You who voted for the nation wrecker are getting what you deserve.America is bringing judgement upon her own head by the very Head of government she put before God to Judge.What we need is the infusion of a intercessor.What we need is to call upon Our Lady as The Immaculate Conception ,Our Queen and as Our Lady of Guadalupe ,Our Empress.It is she that will help us.But much prayer ,fasting and acts of reparation are needed.Blessed be God.Thanks be to God.God !PLEASE Bless America.!
 
Hey everyone. I agree that morality has been improving in some respects. Even with regard to homosexuals I think morality has improved in some ways but has also declined in some ways. It has declined in some ways because homosexual sexual behavior considered to be morally neutral or even moral behavior by many and the number who think this is increasing it would seem. There is also “gay marriage”. However, I think it is improving in regards to homosexuals because they are no longer quite so stigmatized and they are accepted more than they used to be. Unfortunately some people have taken this so far as to approve of homosexual sexual behavior.

Morality has definitely improved as regards ethnic and racial minorities. Indeed African-American and other Black people used to have to use separate water fountains and bathrooms from Caucasian people. That was definitely wrong and it was racist and discriminatory. Black people also used to be lynched and severely persecuted by racist people and people used to be a lot more racist in general. Again, that was wrong. Now it seems that the vast majority of people consider Black people to be equal to White or Caucasian people so morality has improved in that area.

As far as abortion, it is still practiced in our nation and of course abortion is gravely immoral. However, it seems that more and more people are becoming pro-life so morality in that area is improving some as well.

But anyway it does seem that morality is decreasing in some respects such as with “gay marriage”. There also seems to be a lot of greed and selfishness as well. But anyway, its a fact that we live in a sinful world. Morality is improving in some respects but declining in other respects.

So I guess maybe God won’t punish us for our behavior but I do believe He will allow us to suffer the consequences of our behavior. Would this be a more accurate view?
 
Kevin_B said:
I also agree that God probably isn’t in the habit of destroying large groups of people anymore. The fact that Nazi germany didn’t go out in a storm of brimstone should prove that.
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Are you KIDDING me? Have you ever SEEN any photographs of what pretty much every urban area in Germany looked like in 1945?

As Jim mentioned above, God doesn’t ordinarily need to supernaturally rain down punishment for sins because sins create their own punishment in time. The tragic part is that the dreadful outcome of sin is rather indiscriminate in who it destroys. Your Nazi example disproves your own point, you just have failed to see the connection between cause and effect (much like you fail to see how legal recognition of gay “marriage” negatively affects the real thing).

You make a good point that there have been both improvements and slips in public morality, but there too you’re not looking deep enough to see implications for the future. We made big strides in the past overcoming slavery, racism, sexism, etc precisely because we were building on a strong foundation of recognition of the innate dignity and worth of the human being precisely because of that person’s humanity. There’s still some momentum there, but the foundations have been horribly damaged.

We’ve nearly abandoned the concept of innate human dignity and moved to a utilitarian evaluation of the worth of a human being.
  • Can’t hear an unborn child scream? No sweat, kill 'em at will then.
  • Suffered crippling brain injury? More merciful to kill via starvation and dehydration than to care for her.
  • Unborn child diagnosed with Down’s Syndrome? Kill, it’s merciful, don’t you know?
  • Old, sick and depressed? Don’t be a burden to your kids, kick the bucket with Dr. Jack’s merciful machine…
  • Got a degenerative medical condition? Hang on, we’re working on creating new human beings in a petri dish so we can kill them and harvest their cells to help you out.
  • We’ve “liberated” woman from the home (i.e. she can’t afford to stay home with kids anymore), but simultaneously reduced her to a sexual object to be used and discarded like never before.
The fading momentum we still have for protecting the dignity of the individual is a house built on sand now that the dignity of that individual depends on somebody’s measure of how worthy that person’s life is rather than an innate dignity.

Things looked good for the Nazis for several years after they came to power too. But sin has a way of catching up with a society.
 
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