Could I get a proof read please?

[jlr247]

Hi, I’m trying to respond to a friend’s email asking a bunch of religious-type questions, and I think I’m done writing my response (finally). I’d really like if some of you (way) more experienced folk could read it and give me some feedback. Thanks!

ps, i’m only a recent revert, I’m in RCIA. Go easy on me!

Sorry it took me so long to reply, I’ve been busy this past week, and I haven’t been checking my emails. Actually, I only check my hotmail emails like, once a month. So, if you have more questions after this email, I’m going to direct you to a website that I like going to: forums.catholic-questions.org/ You can ask pretty much anything about our religion there, and a ton of people will reply (fast, too). You’ve got my permission to quote me if you ask about this stuff on the forums.

Another thing you might be interested in is this book called Mere Christianity by C.S.Lewis. He was an Atheist who became a Christian and wrote this book about why God exists. Its actually pretty good, I’ve read it. You could get it from the library, I know they have it.

Anyways to reply to your email…:

“If he is all knowing then why create an entity that opposes him?”

Goodness is based on the objective truth that is God. He has revealed to us what good behavior is; obedience to His will. To be disobedient is what is bad behavior.

God could have chosen to have not created Lucifer, knowing that he would become evil. The world would be a place only filled with God’s goodness and greatness; humans would have no hard decisions to make, or temptations to avoid. Human would not know what evil was! However:

If he did that, humans would not appreciate or respect him, they would not realize the greatness of his love, nor would they love him back. They would not have to consciously choose God and goodness, because that would be the only option. Humans would take God for granted. To prevent this from happening, he gave his creatures free will. Yes, he knew that some of his creatures would turn away from him (like Lucifer), and curse him, and act as though he didn’t exist. He knows that some will choose this, and of course it pains him because he loves everyone and wishes for them all to choose him.

Even though God realizes the downside, he chose to give free will to the people anyways. This is because now he will have children who love him, honor him, realize that he is good, and the creator of all that is good on Earth. These children who love, respect and honor him would be a far greater thing to God than the people he could’ve created who do not know he meaning of goodness. The difference would be something like the difference between having a son/daughter, and building a robot who has been programmed to love you. Yes, the robot will obey you, but will it truly love you? The robot has no choice in the matter, and therefore this artificial love is quite meaningless. On the other hand, the child can rebel, maybe even desert you in old age, but is the risk not worth it when the child could also choose to love honor and respect you? Most people would choose the risk of a child over a robot who has been programmed to “love”. God is the same. He wanted to create something wonderful, not a lot of meaningless automated nothingness.

So, to answer your question, there was no reason for God to have NOT created Lucifer.

“If God is all knowing wouldn’t that suggest that he would know about the uprising of the archangel Lucifer?”

God knew Lucifer was being delinquent. Lucifer was prideful and wanted to be independent of, and equal to, God. God didn’t like this, and booted Lucifer out of heaven for his disobedience. He took some of the angels with him, who had also fallen. This group became demons; malicious beings deprived of God’s grace.

continued below

 

[jlr247]

“To suggest that Lucifer could uprise, without God knowing, and be cast out of heaven would suggest that your God is not all knowing and all powerful.”*

First of all, where did this idea that there was this big “uprising” come from? I have no knowledge of anything like that in the bible. All we know is that he chose himself over God, and was sent out from heaven for it.

A previously stated, God did know Lucifer was being delinquent; that is why he was sent out from heaven. This does not detract from the idea of God being all knowing, since he knew, and acted.

If God did not have power over Lucifer, he could not have purged him from heaven. However, God DID purge him from heaven, thus exercising his power. This does not prove that he is all powerful, but neither does in prove that he is NOT all powerful. It is a moot point.

“To condemn mankind with Satan’s presence would suggest that if there is a God, that he does not care about humanity.”

God does not want us to be tormented by Satan. It is our own free choice that damns us; there is no one to blame but ourselves. Satan cannot ruin ruin your life without your consent. He merely provides temptations, it is our own fault if we give in.

What God wants is for us to choose against Satan, and to choose God instead. In this way we will be consciously choosing to become God’s flock as mentioned above.

God is not punishing us with Satan’s presence, he is testing us. That is an important difference to realize.
*
“He is not capable of destroying him. If you think about it, God destroys man for the most trivial things, but he cannot condemn his own angels.”*

First of all, God does not destroy man at all. Human life on this Earth is lost, yes, but that does not mean man is destroyed at all! This only means man has come to the second, eternal part of life. Death is not destruction, it is the gateway to heaven or hell. Where you go depends on the choices you have made in life: have you chosen God, or have you chosen the other?

Furthermore, God could destroy Satan if he wished to, but as discussed before, Satan is here for a reason.

Lastly, assuming the context of the word “condemn” here means “sentence to punishment”, God has condemned Satan and the other fallen angels. They do not get to partake in the greatness of heaven, do not see God (Beatific Vision is highly prized in my religion), and are condemned to a life of pain. The greatest punishment one can undergo is to be separated from God (as he is everything good); this is the punishment that the fallen angels, Satan, and all those in Hell are receiving.
*
“I would suggest that Lucifer has also been around as long as your God and that all the archangels have been around since your God. They are just two opposing entities, such as Hitler and you.”*

Archangels are just “chief” angels, so from here I will only refer to “angels” instead of “angels and archangels”.

God and the angels are not as old as one another because God created everything. God and the angels are outside of time as we on Earth understand it, but seeing as how God can create anything, including angels, and the angels do not have the power of creation, God had to have created the angels. As a creator, God had to have existed before his creation, and is therefore older than the angels (including the exiled archangel, Lucifer).

Yes, they are two opposing entities, because they are opposites. One is good (God), one is evil (Satan); but good is older than evil.

I don’t really get where the line of reasoning you have is coming from, so this is as far as I can refute this claim of God being as old as Satan and the angels.

continued below (sorry!)

 

[jlr247]

“God is not all knowing and all powerful but just an entity as powerful, maybe little more powerful, than the rest of the angels.”*

Ah, but you said you don’t believe in God. This is an interesting development; you say you don’t believe in God but then say He and the angels are on equal footing. You can’t have it both ways.

Furthermore: nothing in your email proves he is not all knowing, nothing in your email proves that he is not all powerful.

---

To sum it up, I think I’ll throw in a creed that states the basics of our beliefs, so you can see a bigger picture as to where I’m coming from. The devil is not so important that we focus on him and devote all of our time to worrying about it; there are more important things. We know there is evil, we try to avoid it, we try to follow God. Thats it.

And hey, at least you were interested enough to email me about God. And it seems that you spent a good amount of time thinking about it. Maybe you’re more interested than you think

The Nicene Creed
We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, and born of the Father before all ages.
God of God, light of light, true God of true God.
Begotten not made, consubstantial to the Father, by whom all things were made.
Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven.
And was incarnate of the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary and was made man; was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried; and the third day rose again according to the Scriptures.
And ascended into Heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead, of whose Kingdom there shall be no end.
We believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who together with the Father and the Son is to be adored and glorified, who spoke by the Prophets.
And one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
We confess one baptism for the remission of sins.
And we look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come.
Amen.

 

[jlr247]

Oh my gosh, I didn’t realize it was so long! :whacky: A big thank you to anyone who actually reads this and gives me some feedback!

 

[Libertas]

Looks good to me, you did well.
I think that is a good starting point for further discussion, keep up the good work brother.

 

[irishmac]

“To condemn mankind with Satan’s presence would suggest that if there is a God, that he does not care about humanity.”

God does not want us to be tormented by Satan. It is our own free choice that damns us; there is no one to blame but ourselves. Satan cannot ruin ruin your life without your consent. He merely provides temptations, it is our own fault if we give in.

What God wants is for us to choose against Satan, and to choose God instead. In this way we will be consciously choosing to become God’s flock as mentioned above.

God is not punishing us with Satan’s presence, he is testing us. That is an important difference to realize.

Pretty good, but I think I would emphasize that condemnation does not come from God. It comes from the person choosing to reject God and His plan. Also, the way I understand Hell is the absolute absense of the Beatific Vision of God, whereas Heaven is the complete presense of the Glory of God. Lucifer was too proud of his status amongst the created beings because he was of the highest order of angelic beings, the seraphim. He rejected God’s will and was subsequently cast down to Oblivion. God gave us free will so that we would choose to live for eternity with Him in Heaven. Those who live their human lives in complete obedience to God’s will shall share in the Glory of His presense. Those who live their human lives in defiance or rejection of God’s will are going to cast themselves into Oblivion. God is the Creator and He wants His creations to follow His plan for salvation.