Could I POSSIBLY become Roman Catholic?

[JCPhoenix]

Thanks for all the info!

I also was confused about the “Constantine” church…I may have an old or mis-printed phone book. Of course, I have about 10 phone books, all covering a different area of the metro area I live in, some specialized, and only 1 book actually has a somewhat complete listing of all churches.

I had no idea there was a maronite rite here. How does that differ from Byzantine? Sorry, I don’t mean to hijack the thread, so if anyone knows please feel free to send a private message…although I suspect others have the same question.

Thanks for the info on the Byzantine communion.

I actually attended a Latin High Mass for the first time…and it was also my first experience with a Communion rail. As my friend put it…this was hard-core Catholicism. And given the state of our world today not a better time to experience it!

But I digress…and turn this thread over to the original intention!

God Bless!

 

[Hesychios]

First, there is only one Ruthenian Catholic church in Minneapolis, that would be the one called Byzantine Catholic. The other parish would probably be Ukrainian Cartholic, so I would guess St. Constantine’s is Ukrainian without checking in to it further, both would use the liturgy of St John Chrysostom.

The Maronites use a liturgy of the West Syrian tradition, basically the liturgy of Saint James (the oldest ongoing liturgical tradition in the world). The Maronite church has undergone a great deal of latinization, their bishops even use the Western mitre, and they switched to azymes (the western type host) a few hundred years ago, but they may switch back later in restoriing their traditions. Many Romans like to attend Maronite liturgies. The Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom had it’s origins in the early liturgy of St James, so the structure is very similar.

In the Byzantine-Slavic traditions (Ruthenian and Ukrainian) the Sacred Species are distributed with a golden spoon. One does not stick out the tongue, that invites a mess. The best way to receive is to tilt the head back slightly (look up at the icons!) and keep the tip of the tongue behind the lower teeth - open wide - and receive the Body of Christ! The Priest or Deacon (no Eucharist ministers there!) will gently flick the host off of the spoon into your mouth without so much as touching you. Do not say Amen or anything like it. Just turn away and sign yourself.

The Roman liturgy is not a more ancient and traditional rite, that is a myth. They have all had separate parallel development. Of course, if one shares the Western theological viewpoint and the liturgy of the West suits one better, that would be a good reason to change, but it is not more original or superior in any way.

The original form of the sign of the cross was from right to left, even in the West! It evolved backwards as it spread into different parts of western Europe because the faithful tried to imitate the way the priest would sign over them, instead of mirror his movements (or vice versa, I forget), so they got it backward!

 

[Digitonomy]

JCPhoenix:

I had no idea there was a maronite rite here. How does that differ from Byzantine?

Here’s that link again to a page with brief descriptions about the Eastern rites. You can get more info fishing around the internet, in particular at the old Catholic Encyclopedia at NewAdvent.com.

 

[Hesychios]

Sowndog:

This is a very interesting thread. I must admit I never knew there was such diversity within the Catholic Church! I don’t know of anything other than RC here in Ireland - I’ll have to check that out.

I really feel like I’ve learned something tonight!

There are Eastern Catholics all over the world!

However the only ones I know of on the Emerald Isle are in Dublin.

Archimandrite Serge Keleher is in charge there. Here is an article about the Melkite Catholic Patriarch of Antioch visiting them!

If you find an opportunity to travel there, look him up!

 

[JCPhoenix]

OK, I just looked up the info again in the phone book I THOUGHT I used before…but there is additional information in this one. I’m confused now…I really THOUGHT I had used this very book!

OK…here in the Minneapolis-St. Paul area, we have 1 Byzantine Catholic church…St. John’s.

We have a Catholic Liberal church by the name of St. Francis…no interest in that, btw.

1 Maronite…St. Maron’s on University Ave NE Mpls…

1 Ukranian…St. Constantine… Sorry, my apologies to all…I had a “dyslexic” thought…substituted Constantine rite. Sorry about that! It is a Ukraine rite…I think I’ve heard of that. Is this really a Russian Orthodox or is it really Catholic?

 

[Hesychios]

digitonomy:

Here’s that link again to a page with brief descriptions about the Eastern rites. You can get more info fishing around the internet, in particular at the old Catholic Encyclopedia at NewAdvent.com.

This isn’t a bad article but his terminology is a bit crummy, I wish he would re-write it. Like many Latins he confuses the term rite with Sui Iuris church, making it seem like there are dozens of Byzantine rites! This can make it hard to have an intelligent discussion on the subject.

Not so, most of those Byzantine churches (Croatian, Slovak, Hungarian etc.) are basically the same liturgically but are artificially separated by political borders, so following the Orthodox tradition they are national churches. In the USA the descendants of immigrants from all those places have mostly either melded into the Roman Catholic church or the Ruthenian Catholic church, with some becoming Orthodox after arrival.

A very good contemporary and updated source for info on the Eastern Catholic churches is CNEWA.

 

[Hesychios]

JCPhoenix:

1 Ukranian…St. Constantine… Sorry, my apologies to all…I had a “dyslexic” thought…substituted Constantine rite. Sorry about that! It is a Ukraine rite…I think I’ve heard of that. Is this really a Russian Orthodox or is it really Catholic?

This is a real Catholic church. Of the Byzantine rite. It is part of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic church Sui Iuris.

The leader of the church is a Major-Archbishop: Lobomyr Husar of K’yiv. The Synod of the church has elected him to be Patriarch, it has not yet been confirmed by His Holiness John Paul II.

I hope that this clears up the confusion!

 

[Sowndog]

Hesychios:

There are Eastern Catholics all over the world!

However the only ones I know of on the Emerald Isle are in Dublin.

Archimandrite Serge Keleher is in charge there. Here is an article about the Melkite Catholic Patriarch of Antioch visiting them!

If you find an opportunity to travel there, look him up!

Thanks for that. I’m afraid my knowledge of modern Church organisation is quite limited!

 

[PMV]

Hesychios:

In the Byzantine-Slavic traditions (Ruthenian and Ukrainian) the Sacred Species are distributed with a golden spoon. One does not stick out the tongue, that invites a mess. The best way to receive is to tilt the head back slightly (look up at the icons!) and keep the tip of the tongue behind the lower teeth - open wide - and receive the Body of Christ! The Priest or Deacon (no Eucharist ministers there!) will gently flick the host off of the spoon into your mouth without so much as touching you. Do not say Amen or anything like it. Just turn away and sign yourself.

You’re right about them using a spoon for communion; perhaps in most Byzantine Churches, but I know that in one of them I visited that I can recall the most they did in fact use a stick, but whether you used your tongue or not now seems a bit blurry. Also, I remember no one saying ‘Amen’, you’re right about that.