G
graciew
Guest
Do you really call this a " serious theological discussion" ?
Could Jesus have used occult powers to 'fake' his death & resurrection?
- Status
C
CatholicHere_Hi
Guest
For me, yes it is. This has been something that has been on my mind for days.
Last edited:
2
2towers
Guest
I have to agree. I know it’s unpopular to use the labell “heresy” but that is what this. This is an accusation of witchcraft against Jesus. This is indefensible.
C
CatholicHere_Hi
Guest
I mis-used the word ‘foul play’. And I only asked if it was possible if he could have done that. I never said he did it.Foul play…?! You must be mad. You say you don’t accuse Jesus, but you do in the next sentence. Don’t you have any sense of shame
2towers:
Last edited:
S
straykat
Guest
Well, you didn’t reply to me and I took you seriously. Jesus was beaten to a pulp and couldn’t even carry his cross. Seems like a very silly, destructive, and roundabout way to then make his death a “hoax”. The truth is that he was so beaten that he died quickly once he was crucified – hence why the guards didn’t break his legs, like the other prisoners.
S
straykat
Guest
I should add that it sometimes took several days to die from crucifixion. But since it was approaching Sabbath, they decided to speed the deaths of Jesus and the thieves. But when that came to Jesus, they were surprised he was already dead.
Hope that helps on some of the context.
Hope that helps on some of the context.
Last edited:
C
CatholicHere_Hi
Guest
Sorry. I must have lost your comment in the shuffle. You make a good point
G
graciew
Guest
That it has been on your mind doesn’t make it theological… Sometimes not even serious.
Who is your favourite Saint?
Who is your favourite Saint?
C
CatholicHere_Hi
Guest
Fair enough. But it is a topic I take seriously and the whole purpose of this forum is to provide ‘Catholic Answers’ to people’s questions about theology.
Padre Pio, St. Theresa of Avila, St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Mother Theresa. St. Therese.
S
straykat
Guest
I should add also that Satan specifically granted Jesus all kinds of power as he fasted in the desert. Why reject it then… but then secretly hoodwink BOTH SATAN, the whole world, and use evil powers anyways to hoax his death?
G
graciew
Guest
Santa Teresa of Avila is mine as well.
And Mother Teresa.
Have they been deceived one after the other as all the saints and martyrs?
Could we honestly say that what has been on your mind is worth more than their witness of love for Jesus?
Is there anything special you remember or like from any of the saints you mentioned and that you would like share with us?
And Mother Teresa.
Have they been deceived one after the other as all the saints and martyrs?
Could we honestly say that what has been on your mind is worth more than their witness of love for Jesus?
Is there anything special you remember or like from any of the saints you mentioned and that you would like share with us?
Last edited:
C
CatholicHere_Hi
Guest
I don’t believe he hoodwinked anybody, but a non-believer could just say that Jesus made that story up to sound more Godly, since he was the only one there.
C
CatholicHere_Hi
Guest
I don’t know the answer to that question. I would guess no.
I’m not sure how to answer that question, because I don’t know what you are implying.
Sure. St. Padre Pio gave me hope that saints can be down to Earth people. His stigmata and mystic abilities are a good witness to the faith. St. Thomas provided 5 arguments to prove the existence of God.
Why do I get the feeling I’m being ‘tested’ for the authenticity of my Catholicism?
S
straykat
Guest
That’s nice… I’m glad you don’t.
I don’t particularly care for apologetics myself though. That’s those people’s problem. Not mine to help them out of.
I don’t particularly care for apologetics myself though. That’s those people’s problem. Not mine to help them out of.
G
graciew
Guest
No… Just trying to make room for the saints to give us a hand with our questions and troubles and doubts.
So many times they intercede for us,and help us,and their lives so “:earthly” and at the same time so holy,do speak to us in their own ways.
So many times they intercede for us,and help us,and their lives so “:earthly” and at the same time so holy,do speak to us in their own ways.
Last edited:
C
CatholicHere_Hi
Guest
Ok. Yeah I do agree they are great witnesses.
G
graciew
Guest
Sometimes,when we have something" weighing" too much on one side,like these thoughts of yours,for example,it is good to look at it like a jig -saw: instead of dwelling on that side that worries…add more " weight" on the other end.
Add weight through the saints,and may all your doubts disappear.
Add weight through the saints,and may all your doubts disappear.
Last edited:
Z
Zaccheus
Guest
@CatholicHere_Hi
You wonder whether it’s possible Christ used ‘siddhis’ to fake his resurrection.
Have you any evidence that these ‘shiddhis’ actually work?
Do you know of even one person who has actually done any of the things claimed?
If you have read or heard such a claim: can you tell us where and when this took place?
Do you have documentary or credible eyewitness evidence that they did so?
If not then why is it even remotely credible that Christ used such occult abilities rather than that it was the power of God that allowed Him to rise from the dead?
You wonder whether it’s possible Christ used ‘siddhis’ to fake his resurrection.
Have you any evidence that these ‘shiddhis’ actually work?
Do you know of even one person who has actually done any of the things claimed?
If you have read or heard such a claim: can you tell us where and when this took place?
Do you have documentary or credible eyewitness evidence that they did so?
If not then why is it even remotely credible that Christ used such occult abilities rather than that it was the power of God that allowed Him to rise from the dead?
R
Reuben_J
Guest
Hi @CatholicHere_Hi.
The answer is, it is not possible. It can be magic or occult, or holding their breathe to look as if dead and then be ‘alive’ again after regaining his breathe. For that to happen, that is, for the person to be alive again, he must not be dead, right?
But Jesus was dead. The Roman soldiers made sure of that. He was dead already. If he hadn’t died, yes, he could have held his breathe, to pretend as if dead. However, the Roman soldier made sure he was truly dead by piercing his side with a nine inch spear, which is long enough to reach his heart. Blood and water gushed out when he was pierced, which the cardilogist today would explained as the blood and fluid accumulated in his pericardium, which was formed during his torture as he was weak and short of breath.
The priercing by the spear was so deep as to reach the heart, there was no way a person can be still alive, occult or no occult. You cannot play a magic trick if you are dead, right?
So the answer to your question is no.
This speculation is also employed by some Muslims in order to justify that Jesus was not crucifed, according to their Quran.
No, you cannot spin around it. Jesus was truly dead. If the two thieves could not survive the crucifixion despite being quite fresh compared to Jesus, there is not way Jesus could still be alive. The piercing with the spear through his heart ensured his death.
God bless you.
Last edited:
R
Reuben_J
Guest
@CatholicHere_Hi.
Like being burnt on a funeral pyre, a traditional Hindu funeral rite, it would not be possible to be alive if the person is burnt to ashes. Unless, unless, if it is a magic trick. David Copperfield would perhaps be able to organize it that when the pyre is lighted, he could disappear by creating an illusion. But for that to happen, he must do it with accomplishes, which is done as a performance.
The crucifixion of our Lord was not a performance. He did not have any accomplice. The Sanhedrin that oversaw his crucifixion was his enemies, not his accomplices or disciples.
If you were the Sanhedrin or the Roman soldiers (who would be punished severely if they did not carry out their task), would you not make sure that Jesus was dead? The Romans were the expert in torturing and executing people. Death is their finesse, which they were good at.
Your Hindu or Muslim friends do not consider these circumstances. Many of their scriptures deal with legend rather that specific people in time in history, like the Romans, which were well-documented.
Like being burnt on a funeral pyre, a traditional Hindu funeral rite, it would not be possible to be alive if the person is burnt to ashes. Unless, unless, if it is a magic trick. David Copperfield would perhaps be able to organize it that when the pyre is lighted, he could disappear by creating an illusion. But for that to happen, he must do it with accomplishes, which is done as a performance.
The crucifixion of our Lord was not a performance. He did not have any accomplice. The Sanhedrin that oversaw his crucifixion was his enemies, not his accomplices or disciples.
If you were the Sanhedrin or the Roman soldiers (who would be punished severely if they did not carry out their task), would you not make sure that Jesus was dead? The Romans were the expert in torturing and executing people. Death is their finesse, which they were good at.
Your Hindu or Muslim friends do not consider these circumstances. Many of their scriptures deal with legend rather that specific people in time in history, like the Romans, which were well-documented.
- Status