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Timi_Celcer
Guest
Jesus always sends the Holy Spirit with the Father. That is, He always asks His Father to send the Holy Spirit. Could He send it without the Father?
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InflatusMaximus
Guest
Why do you need to figure this out? It seems a non-essential.
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Elizium23
Guest
That’s a rather illogical question, considering the nature of the Holy Trinity, which is one God in three Persons. The Trinity operates with one will in perfect love and harmony between the three Persons. It does not make sense to me for you to speak of one Person acting “without” the others. Christ came to Earth and took on human form but he was never separate from the others - “I and the Father are one” - the Father and Holy Spirit were always close at hand as we saw at His baptism.
I think the answer would be no, but this is of those illogical questions that doesn’t necessarily facilitate a logical answer.
More to the point may be the doctrine of procession. The original formulation of the Nicene Creed was that the “Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father”. The filioque clause added in the West added “and the Son” to this. Today we understand this is more akin to proceeding from the Father through the Son, and the filioque is omitted when reciting the Creed in Greek. I think the unambiguous participation of the Father in the procession of the Holy Spirit would preclude the Son’s action without the Father being involved.
I think the answer would be no, but this is of those illogical questions that doesn’t necessarily facilitate a logical answer.
More to the point may be the doctrine of procession. The original formulation of the Nicene Creed was that the “Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father”. The filioque clause added in the West added “and the Son” to this. Today we understand this is more akin to proceeding from the Father through the Son, and the filioque is omitted when reciting the Creed in Greek. I think the unambiguous participation of the Father in the procession of the Holy Spirit would preclude the Son’s action without the Father being involved.
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captainrick
Guest
Exactly how I would respond to many posts I see on CAF. I don’t know why people think of such odd questions. No one can ever know the answers anyway.
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spiderweb
Guest
Just my view on this is that since the three persons are one God, all three are involved in everything in some manner. So Jesus can truly say that He will send the Holy Spirit. He also says that the Father will send the Holy Spirit, and in another place scripture says the Holy Spirit moves where He wills.
To say that only Jesus or only the Father can send the Holy Spirit would be false. I think it would also be misrepresenting who the Holy Spirit is, since that could give the appearance of being subordinate or less than the Father or Son.
To say that Jesus could not send the Holy Spirit without the Father is in a way true, but only in the sense that the three persons of the Trinity are truly One and in everything that one person does also involves the other two persons.
To say that only Jesus or only the Father can send the Holy Spirit would be false. I think it would also be misrepresenting who the Holy Spirit is, since that could give the appearance of being subordinate or less than the Father or Son.
To say that Jesus could not send the Holy Spirit without the Father is in a way true, but only in the sense that the three persons of the Trinity are truly One and in everything that one person does also involves the other two persons.
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TARRAT
Guest
Very thoughtful answer to what could have been a strange question.
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k5rakitan
Guest
That’s part of the grand mystery. There are some things we’re just not supposed to understand.
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Brendan
Guest
Meaningless question, as it would involve a separation of the HolyTrinity, a contradiction in terms.
There is one Divine Will, one Divine Intellect, there is no such thing as the Son being without the Father in any matter, especially one concerning the Spirit.
The Son does not ‘choose’ with the Father, nor without the Spirit, they share an Intellect and Will and therefore there is simply one choice, a choice to send the Spirit.
That must be so, as God is omniscient. To imply that the Son would choose to sent the Spirit without the Father would mean that the Father is ignorant of the sending (impossible), or that the Son knows of a reason to send the Spirit that the Father does not know of (again an impossibility). Or that the Son Wills it to happen where the Father does not. Again, the one way that could happen was if one person of the Trinity was either ignorant, or one is mistaken in either sending, or refusing to send, the Spirit. That too, of course, is a logical impossibility. The Godhead is both all knowing and all perfect.
There is one Divine Will, one Divine Intellect, there is no such thing as the Son being without the Father in any matter, especially one concerning the Spirit.
The Son does not ‘choose’ with the Father, nor without the Spirit, they share an Intellect and Will and therefore there is simply one choice, a choice to send the Spirit.
That must be so, as God is omniscient. To imply that the Son would choose to sent the Spirit without the Father would mean that the Father is ignorant of the sending (impossible), or that the Son knows of a reason to send the Spirit that the Father does not know of (again an impossibility). Or that the Son Wills it to happen where the Father does not. Again, the one way that could happen was if one person of the Trinity was either ignorant, or one is mistaken in either sending, or refusing to send, the Spirit. That too, of course, is a logical impossibility. The Godhead is both all knowing and all perfect.
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