Could Julius Caesar be in heaven?

[Timi_Celcer]

I mean, he was a good person overall, helping the poor and after his death he splited all of his money between the poor. Of curse he was a proud glory hunter, but in those times that was an okay thing. Yes he conquered nations but again in those times those things(conquering,…) were okay and even thought as morally good. The opposite nation probably didn’t resent Caesar that he attacked them, because they enjoyed dying for their tribe,… and they would probably do the same in Caesar’s place. The only evil he did is killing innocent people during the Gallic wars. But on the other side he was merciful, forgiving his enemies, always forgiving,… He of curse didn’t know our God to well and was probably positive that Roman gods are real. And as far as i know he followed them completely. Do you think he can be in heaven?

 

[Della]

I’ve long admired Julius Caesar, as well. For a pagan, a conqueror and an emperor, he wasn’t such a bad sort. But as to his eternal destiny? That I wouldn’t hazard to guess. Only God knows Julius’ fate. We can, of course, pray for his soul. If he went to Abraham’s bosom and saw Christ, who preached to the souls there, he may be in heaven. But, I’m afraid we’ll have to wait until the final judgment to know who made it and who didn’t.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

I mean, he was a good person overall, helping the poor and after his death he splited all of his money between the poor. Of curse he was a proud glory hunter, but in those times that was an okay thing. Yes he conquered nations but again in those times those things(conquering,…) were okay and even thought as morally good. The opposite nation probably didn’t resent Caesar that he attacked them, because they enjoyed dying for their tribe,… and they would probably do the same in Caesar’s place. The only evil he did is killing innocent people during the Gallic wars. But on the other side he was merciful, forgiving his enemies, always forgiving,… He of curse didn’t know our God to well and was probably positive that Roman gods are real. And as far as i know he followed them completely. Do you think he can be in heaven?

Do you think Constantine could be in heaven?
If he can then why not Caesar?

 

[Della]

Do you think Constantine could be in heaven?
If he can then why not Caesar?

Well, Constantine was baptized a Christian, and of course Julius Caesar was not, since he lived and died before Jesus was born. Julius Caesar was also a pagan who worshiped idols, still we cannot know the intentions of his heart in doing so. We can only give him to God and let God judge his worthiness.

 

[smichhertz]

Possibly, that’s up to God.

That answer is pretty much universal to everyone - including Hitler.

The only distinction, of course, are canonized saints in the Church, where we know they are in Heaven.

 

[TK421]

I mean, he was a good person overall, helping the poor and after his death he splited all of his money between the poor. Of curse he was a proud glory hunter, but in those times that was an okay thing. Yes he conquered nations but again in those times those things(conquering,…) were okay and even thought as morally good. The opposite nation probably didn’t resent Caesar that he attacked them, because they enjoyed dying for their tribe,… and they would probably do the same in Caesar’s place. The only evil he did is killing innocent people during the Gallic wars. But on the other side he was merciful, forgiving his enemies, always forgiving,… He of curse didn’t know our God to well and was probably positive that Roman gods are real. And as far as i know he followed them completely. Do you think he can be in heaven?

I think it is very remote that he didn’t go to Heaven. Julius Caesar was a pariah among his peers. By your fruits you know them. I’d go as far as to venture that in a different time he would have been a canonized saint, like St King Louis IX.

 

[Loving_disciple]

I mean, he was a good person overall, helping the poor and after his death he splited all of his money between the poor. Of curse he was a proud glory hunter, but in those times that was an okay thing. Yes he conquered nations but again in those times those things(conquering,…) were okay and even thought as morally good. The opposite nation probably didn’t resent Caesar that he attacked them, because they enjoyed dying for their tribe,… and they would probably do the same in Caesar’s place. The only evil he did is killing innocent people during the Gallic wars. But on the other side he was merciful, forgiving his enemies, always forgiving,… He of curse didn’t know our God to well and was probably positive that Roman gods are real. And as far as i know he followed them completely. Do you think he can be in heaven?

Of course not curse. Sorry for being the grammar Nazi. Invading another country is never morally right. It doesn’t matter what was considered right during the time. God does not change nor does his morality. I don’t know if he is in heaven or not. I hope he is because I don’t want anyone in hell. Say a prayer for his soul he might still be in purgatory

 

[GEddie]

I would imagine that almost everybody gets Purgatory.

Julius Caesar was not egregiously evil or admirably virtuous. Everybody else, ITASM, would draw at least some Purgatory.

IMNAAHO.

ICXC NIKA

 

[vz71]

If so, there is hope for me.

 

[Della]

Of course not curse. Sorry for being the grammar Nazi. Invading another country is never morally right. It doesn’t matter what was considered right during the time. God does not change nor does his morality. I don’t know if he is in heaven or not. I hope he is because I don’t want anyone in hell. Say a prayer for his soul he might still be in purgatory

Well, from the Roman point of view the Germans and the Africans were an unruly lot who needed a strong hand to guide them. It rather reminds me of our own America trying to keep the peace among Arab/Islamic nations–a futile effort, IMHO, but we are the ruling power in the world just now. It’s the era of Pax Americana as it was Pax Romana in Caesar’s day. If the Romans hadn’t conquered Europe it’s arguable that it’d have been converted to Christianity later on. That doesn’t make Caesar’s conquests right, of course, but it’s still a salient fact to take into consideration. God works through nations and leaders, sometimes without their knowing it. Caesar no doubt thought he was doing what was right and necessary. Only God can really judge the man’s motives or anyone else’s, can he?

 

[Pat_Payne]

Now before we start canonizing Caesar, let’s not forget that he was also a borderline sex addict who slept with a staggering number of women in Rome, including many noble wives (it’s theorized, in fact, that Marcus Junius Brutus, one of his closest confidantes as well as one of his assassins may have been an illegitimate son of his from a liaison with the wife of a high-ranking Senator – a claim given some circumstantial weight when you realize his last words were “kai su, teknon?”, or “And you too, my son?”), and had a great number of men crucified unjustly, purely out of revenge – I’m speaking here of the pirates who waylaid him on the way to Rhodes when he was a young man. And his invasion of Gaul wasn’t pretty, even by his own account – the Gothic tribes who wanted to migrate, touching off the invasion, he forced to return to their homeland at the point of a sword, even after they had scorched the earth to make their decision to leave easier, in effect sentencing them to starvation. It’s thought at least a million died in the conquest of Gaul.

The man was a magnificent b****** (I read yer book!!! ), true, and as with a great many people, I’ve always had a sideways-glance admiration for him as well, but to call him a “good man” is a stretch.

As to the question of his being in Heaven or Hell? Yeah, I am not qualified to say any more than anyone else here is. There is only one who can, and He has seen fit not to divulge it yet.

 

[Della]

Yes, he was brutal and cruel–that’s what got him into power and what was his downfall. He was brutal so his enemies would fear him and he was merciful when it suited his plans. He never hated others for their religion or ethnicity–indeed he didn’t hate, he took revenge. For his times and what he was he was outstanding in many ways. But like many other great men of power it went to his head and he used it to personal advantage. He certainly wasn’t a saint, but by Roman standards of the day, he was actually better than most. Roman ruled through brutality and power. Any leader who didn’t embrace that ethic didn’t stand a chance. I don’t know that he could have accepted Christ and Christianity with love as the driving force instead of raw power. Maybe some spark of the divine touched him upon dying and seeing God, who knows. It’s just that when we admire people for their genius we hate to think of them as ending up in hell.

 

[Razanir]

a claim given some circumstantial weight when you realize his last words were “kai su, teknon?”, or “And you too, my son?”

:ehh:

Didn’t they speak Latin in Ancient Rome, not Greek? So wouldn’t it have been “Et tu, filie?”

 

[SuperLuigi]

I mean, he was a good person overall, helping the poor and after his death he splited all of his money between the poor. Of curse he was a proud glory hunter, but in those times that was an okay thing. Yes he conquered nations but again in those times those things(conquering,…) were okay and even thought as morally good. The opposite nation probably didn’t resent Caesar that he attacked them, because they enjoyed dying for their tribe,… and they would probably do the same in Caesar’s place. The only evil he did is killing innocent people during the Gallic wars. But on the other side he was merciful, forgiving his enemies, always forgiving,… He of curse didn’t know our God to well and was probably positive that Roman gods are real. And as far as i know he followed them completely. Do you think he can be in heaven?

Hilter and bin-laden could be in heaven for all we know

 

[bilop]

Of course not curse. Sorry for being the grammar Nazi. Invading another country is never morally right. It doesn’t matter what was considered right during the time. God does not change nor does his morality. I don’t know if he is in heaven or not. I hope he is because I don’t want anyone in hell. Say a prayer for his soul he might still be in purgatory

Invading another country certainly can be morally right, e.g. Allied Invasion of Nazi Germany.

Any time a country is attacked, that country had the moral right to defeat the aggressor, and render that country incapable of further aggression. That usually requires an invasion.

God Bless

 

[Della]

Hilter and bin-laden could be in heaven for all we know

There was a recent thread about Hitler’s ultimate fate. It grew rather heated. But the plain truth is–we simply don’t know, yes?

 

[bilop]

There was a recent thread about Hitler’s ultimate fate. It grew rather heated. But the plain truth is–we simply don’t know, yes?

We don’t know for a certainty; last minute repentance is always theoretically possible.

But, we can make a pretty good guess based on how he lived and died. I wouldn’t give him good odds.

God Bless

 

[Della]

We don’t know for a certainty; last minute repentance is always theoretically possible.

Yes, although considering he was a pagan who didn’t seem all that concerned about following the precept of his own religion, I’d be doubtful.

But, we can make a pretty good guess based on how he lived and died. I wouldn’t give him good odds.

God Bless

Yes. A man is known by his fruits. His certainly were a mixed bag.

 

[Razanir]

Hilter and bin-laden could be in heaven for all we know

And the point is, we don’t know. Also, I’d like to applaud everyone for enforcing Godwin’s Law. Somehow every debate DOES wind up including Hitler.

 

[thistle]

I mean, he was a good person overall, helping the poor and after his death he splited all of his money between the poor. Of curse he was a proud glory hunter, but in those times that was an okay thing. Yes he conquered nations but again in those times those things(conquering,…) were okay and even thought as morally good. The opposite nation probably didn’t resent Caesar that he attacked them, because they enjoyed dying for their tribe,… and they would probably do the same in Caesar’s place. The only evil he did is killing innocent people during the Gallic wars. But on the other side he was merciful, forgiving his enemies, always forgiving,… He of curse didn’t know our God to well and was probably positive that Roman gods are real. And as far as i know he followed them completely. Do you think he can be in heaven?

There is no point in speculating. Only God knows where he is.

Regarding your comments that I highlighted you cannot possibly back up such a claim. You have no way of knowing if that is correct or not.