Could Mary have sinned?

[Truthstalker]

So far, I think the Catholics here have made an excellent presentation to prove their case.

I don’t think so. There has been way too much sidetracking. You have shown Catholics believe Mary didn’t sin, but that is about it. The question of whether she COULD have sinned has hardly been touched. There’s been a lot of cut and paste plagiarism. That’s not apologetics, that’s plagiarism. There have been attempts to prove everything except what the thread is about.

 

[Mannyfit75]

You need to differentiate between the Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Church. The Catholic Church does not recognize the pope as a leader except in Rome.

The Church which I belong to is the Catholic Church. Roman Catholic is only the Latin Rite. There are 23 Rites in the Catholic Church. 22 Eastern Rite Churches which are not Roman and the 23 is Latin Rite.

I belong to the Latin Rite, which is Roman. It is apparent, you do not know that there are Eastern Catholics who do not pray the rosary, or do station of the cross.

The Church I belong to is rightly called, One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

It is an insult to Eastern Catholics to address the Church as Roman Catholic Church. Since the Eastern Rite Catholics are not Roman!

 

[Mannyfit75]

I don’t think so. There has been way too much sidetracking. You have shown Catholics believe Mary didn’t sin, but that is about it.

Yes we did show that Mary did not sin.

The question of whether she COULD have sinned has hardly been touched. There’s been a lot of cut and paste plagiarism. That’s not apologetics, that’s plagiarism. There have been attempts to prove everything except what the thread is about.

The cut and paste is from Catholic Apologetic sources. I never claim them to be my own.

 

[Mannyfit75]

You are incorrect. You can not prove apostolic succession and I can prove it is false. We can take it up in another thread.

No, you haven’t prove it, it is false. That is a blatant lie.

Apostolic Succesion is proven in history and it is discussed in another thread. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=183024

 

[Old_Scholar]

Old Scholar,have you looked at the quotes from the Church Fathers in posts and 783,806 and 811? These men believed the same things about Mary that modern Catholics believe.

See also posts 591 and 714.

Yes I read and re-read all those posts. Unfortunately the only church fathers you quoted were from the third century and later. We all know that belief didn’t originate until about that time so I would put much more faith in the belief if you could show some writings of Ignatius, Polycarp, Barnabas, Irenaeus, Justim Martyr and even Clement saying the same thing.

After all, those were the ones who knew the apostles and heard them preach. It would be far better to believe them than the much later ones. Don’t you believe so?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Yes I read and re-read all those posts. Unfortunately the only church fathers you quoted were from the third century and later. We all know that belief didn’t originate until about that time so I would put much more faith in the belief if you could show some writings of Ignatius, Polycarp, Barnabas, Irenaeus, Justim Martyr and even Clement saying the same thing.

After all, those were the ones who knew the apostles and heard them preach. It would be far better to believe them than the much later ones. Don’t you believe so?

Apostolic Fathers

Writings of the ECF:

newadvent.org/fathers/

 

[Church_Militant]

You need to differentiate between the Catholic Church and the Roman Catholic Church. The Catholic Church does not recognize the pope as a leader except in Rome.

Cute… totally inaccurate, but I’m sure it makes you feel special.

We’re the same church that Ignatius of Antioch speaks of when he says,

"CHAP. VIII.–LET NOTHING BE DONE WITHOUT THE BISHOP.

See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Christ Jesus does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles. Do ye also reverence the deacons, as those that carry out[through their office] the appointment of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper(18) Eucharist, which is[administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude[of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

Lessee, he wrote that to a church a long way off. Now why would he use a name that they wouldn’t recognize? The simple truth is that he wouldn’t have…and he was thrown to wild animals for his Catholic faith.

And what did that Catholic Church believe about the Eucharist? Why…my goodness…It appears that they believed the very same thing that we do today. Look here:

CHAP. VII.–LET US STAND ALOOF FROM SUCH HERETICS.

They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer,(7) because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again. Those, therefore, who speak against this gift of God, incur death(11) in the midst of their disputes. But it were better for them to treat it with respect,(13) that they also might rise again. It is fitting, therefore, that ye should keep aloof from such persons, and not to speak of(15) them either in private or in public, but to give heed to the prophets, and above all, to the Gospel, in which the passion[of Christ] has been revealed to us, and the resurrection has been fully proved.(16) But avoid all divisions, as the beginning of evils.

So…let’s compare that to what you believe about your communion services…What, you say it’s symbolic? Ignatius, who learned his faith from St. John the Apostle says nothing of the kind…in fact he says that anyone who rejects that that shouldn’t even be spoken of in private or public.

Seems that he shares the Catholic understanding of 1st Corinthians 11:23-30…and in spite of all your lip service to the Word of God as the only authority for what you believe, it sure seems that you are dead wrong there and according to Ignatius are definitely NOT part of the Catholic Church.

For a guy who claims to be a “scholar” you certainly seem long on rhetoric and propaganda and really short on facts. Why is that?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Cute… totally inaccurate, but I’m sure it makes you feel special.

We’re the same church that Ignatius of Antioch speaks of when he says, Lessee, he wrote that to a church a long way off. Now why would he use a name that they wouldn’t recognize? The simple truth is that he wouldn’t have…and he was thrown to wild animals for his Catholic faith.

And what did that Catholic Church believe about the Eucharist? Why…my goodness…It appears that they believed the very same thing that we do today. Look here:So…let’s compare that to what you believe about your communion services…What, you say it’s symbolic? Ignatius, who learned his faith from St. John the Apostle says nothing of the kind…in fact he says that anyone who rejects that that shouldn’t even be spoken of in private or public.

Seems that he shares the Catholic understanding of 1st Corinthians 11:23-30…and in spite of all your lip service to the Word of God as the only authority for what you believe, it sure seems that you are dead wrong there and according to Ignatius are definitely NOT part of the Catholic Church.

For a guy who claims to be a “scholar” you certainly seem long on rhetoric and propaganda and really short on facts. Why is that?

Scholar doesn’t know what he is talking about it when it comes to Church History.

 

[Church_Militant]

I don’t think so. There has been way too much sidetracking. You have shown Catholics believe Mary didn’t sin, but that is about it. The question of whether she COULD have sinned has hardly been touched. There’s been a lot of cut and paste plagiarism. That’s not apologetics, that’s plagiarism. There have been attempts to prove everything except what the thread is about.

Well I haven’t seen anything conclusive from the other side and if this train wreck went off the tracks that’s because the n-Cs engage in any topic they please and the Catholics follow their lead. When you guys learn how to ask one question and stay on it to the end instead of using every opportunity to introduce more rhetoric and propaganda in every post, the that will stop happening.

Don’t sweat it… I’ll report the thread as off topic and the mod will close this wreck.

See ya in the trenches…

 

[Church_Militant]

Scholar doesn’t know what he is talking about it when it comes to Church History.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Over 1000 post limit and off topic.
Thread closed!